Gender Discussion #13

[maytoseptember]

I understand some of you have valid reasons for not liking choking or breath play but constantly shaming people for liking it or enjoying it isn't cool either. I can assure you, whenever choking is involved, we have proper protocol with hand signs, body language and a TON of aftercare too with lots of reassurance, love and care. Whenever there are bruises or welts or soreness involved, we take a break for some time, apply some soothing salve and check in on each other I have never felt threatened, unloved or felt like just a cum receptacle to my fiancé.

To be honest, I’m starting to doubt your intentions in this thread, such is your tendency to bring your sex life into it. This thread isn’t to display your kinks and frankly I’m starting to find it all very weird. If you’re trying to convert a bunch of kink-shaming radfems it isn’t working.

Any sex that requires aftercare and “soothing salves” (such strange, flowery language) is harmful to women.

I’m going to step away from this thread until the vibe gets back to normal.

 

[Doc]

I might get stick for this, but I’d go as far as to say we need to stop pummelling kids with the entire “be kind” “be tolerant” bullshittery too.

I don’t want my daughter to be tolerant, or kind, at someone’s say so. It’s submissive and she’s already timid. I want her to have empathy for others, but to use her own moral fortitude and confidence to decide what is right and wrong.

 

[fmmac]

Just need to vent

I'm a member of a woman only hiking group on FB. It says woman only in the title. Im sure you know where this is going...

Yesterday there was a post asking what the stance is on TW. Over 120 fawning comments from woman spouting the TWAW line and how they are happy it's such a good vibes, accepting group. Comments stating that anyone who doesn't agree should leave or that they would leave if anyone objected.

I'm so annoyed about this - we can't have anything that's women only. I appreciate there are much larger issues in this area but I was annoyed as I was hoping to connect with other women who share the same interests. I was looking for FEMALE friends. I'm married to a man and work in an all male environment, I don't need anymore men in my life

I knew everyone here would understand

 

[2020two]

“To help transgender dancers who may feel self conscious about their bodies” As if people who aren’t trans don’t have insecurities about their bodies What annoys me about the shorts thing is that there have probably been many women and girls in the past who have hated wearing leotards and felt really self conscious, especially during that time of the month, but does anyone give a stuff? No, not until a trans person comes along and then suddenly the red carpet comes out and then rules/traditions that have been around for decades go out the window.

I am livid for the little girl I once was. I was a ballet dancer from 3, I started puberty years before my friends (7) and used to cry and beg my ballet school to allow me to wear shorts over my leotard to hide my underwear/period pad. I was a DD by 11 but was denied wearing a bra. This impacted my confidence for YEARS because I got to see my petite ballet friends looking fabulous while I was developing women's hips, large breasts and a period. I gave up my dream of being a ballerina because my body type did not make the cut. No one gave a crap, rules were rules. Of course they bend over backwards to make trans kids comfortable. This has brought back so many memories of crying over my body as an 8/9 year old. Jeez.

 

[Rdogk24]

I’m 24 and before very recently I was really behind the TRA. I used to say TWAW and I celebrated when Caitlin Jenner won woman of the year (I know). I even had a debate with my mum last year about JKR, siding with TRA and calling my mum a terf. I look back at myself and genuinely I can’t believe how brainwashed I was. I started waking up when I allowed myself to listen to opposing views and realising, funnily enough, older women who are fighting for my rights might just know better than me and aren’t just radical feminists who are behind the times. I think people my age who have grown up on the internet have been programmed to be ‘woke’ or you’re evil, dumb, ignorant, cancelled. I genuinely believe that things will turn around though, if it hadn’t been for brave women speaking out about this stuff I would’ve still been in my SJW bubble.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Does this link work?

Mx9Fa

“To help transgender dancers who may feel self conscious about their bodies” As if people who aren’t trans don’t have insecurities about their bodies What annoys me about the shorts thing is that there have probably been many women and girls in the past who have hated wearing leotards and felt really self conscious, especially during that time of the month, but does anyone give a stuff? No, they were just told to suck it up because that’s how it’s done. Until a trans person comes along and then suddenly the red carpet comes out and rules/traditions that have been around for decades go out the window not for the benefit of the women but for the benefit of men who think they are women. It’s galling.

 

[HoGi]

Cannot stand this guy. Equal access to healthcare? What exactly does he not currently have access to?

This winds me up. A lot of NHS services are a lottery such as where I live in Essex you get 0 rounds of IVF regardless of circumstances. Few miles away in London, some boroughs get 3 rounds. That isn't equal access.

But if you break your leg or have a car crash etc. You will get the same care regardless of your sex or gender ideology.

I assume by health care he means hormones and gender reassigned surgery. This is not life or death health care needs despite what they might think.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

To be honest, I’m starting to doubt your intentions in this thread, such is your tendency to bring your sex life into it. This thread isn’t to display your kinks and frankly I’m starting to find it all very weird. If you’re trying to convert a bunch of kink-shaming radfems it isn’t working.

Any sex that requires aftercare and “soothing salves” (such strange, flowery language) is harmful to women.

I’m going to step away from this thread until the vibe gets back to normal.

I want to back this comment up. Having a different opinion is one thing, but I just found it really off when your response to a member discussing how they didn't want their partner to watch porn was to suggest that they discuss making sex with their partner more pornified. Her whole comment had been that she didn't like to feel that she had to compete with porn so why on earth would she then want to discuss enacting some of it?

I also question how healthy it is to engage in activities with your partner to the point of there being physical evidence of abuse.

I quite agree with Glinner when he says 'bring back kink shaming' - there are some things that are just a bit fucked up.

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

I don't believe in trans. You can't be born in the wrong body. You are your body. A man can't know he's a woman on the inside, because he doesn't know what it feels like to be a woman. Liking male things does not make you male, liking female things does not make you female.

If a little boy likes girls stuff we shouldn't tell him his body is wrong and needs medically changing, you're meant to be a girl. We should tell him there is no such things as girls things and boys things and he can be whoever he wants to be, boys come in all shapes and sizes.

I do however accept that for some adults, having a sex change is the only way they can feel happy with themselves and so, as an adult they should be free to make an informed decision to do that under medical supervision. But adults have removed body parts and regretted it. So there is no way a child can be trusted to know that they really want to start a medical sex change.

 

[petitspois]

I'm in a women's style group on FB and a trans woman has joined. She posts frequently and, frankly, looks like a miner wearing a wig but all the comments are 'love your bravery' 'gorgeous' and so on. She makes comments about having a blonde moment and needing chocolate like she's a parody of a woman, it really gets on my nerves.

 

[lizziebrooks123]

Hello,

As a member of Gen-Z, I cringe at the way I used to be when I was 15/16. I’m now in my early twenties. I used to be very much Trans Women are Women, calling women TERFs etc. I’m so glad I’ve grown from that now. I think it’s appalling how sly and subtly (or not so subtly) women are essentially being erased from society.

Um, yeah, I just wanted to say hello.

 

[Dear Reader]

I just rang my boyfriend at work to tell him something quickly and a man that works there (and is a drag queen) picked up the phone and started making sex noises down the phone. Apparently, it was a joke, he was trying to make it sound as if my partner was cheating on me but because it was so obviously a man making the noises it was meant to be funny. I felt violated.
I explained this to my boyfriend so that he could understand why I hung up the phone upset and shaking:
a) He's friendly with my boyfriend, but I don't know him. So, ultimately, a strange man just made sexual noises to me down the phone. If a man did that to me on the street, even if it was a joke, it would be harassment.
b) It doesn't matter what the intentions were, at the end of the day I felt violated and harassed. So guess what, I was violated and harassed. No excuses.
I haven't taken any further action. But if it happens again I will talk to this man and let him know that this is not ok

 

[AlanBanan]

If porn was genuinely empowering for women. Men would be against it.

 

[Luisa18]

I'm a person with XY chromosones (a man, for I don't think anyone on the thread is desperate to resort to such cumbersome language IRL) and I also believe the gender pay gap, while real, is massively overstated and simplified. I remember discussing it with a friend last year - the headline was "woman earn 22% less than a man" - which is technically true. However, when drilled down to same job, same experience, same qualifications etc... the "pay gap" was only 6% IIRC. Which is much less media-worthy than a headline figure in the double digits.

As it is, once someone receives the minimum wage, or the correct amount in a union-negotiated wage structure, I don't really care what people earn. It's an individually-negotiated contract. If you are willing to accept less, or don't know your worth, that is on you, not "the patriarchy", nor the business which is trying to keep costs (such as salaries) to a minimum.

I’ll bite. Surely it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out why, over the course of a professional career, a woman might not be able to match a man’s experience and qualifications that he has had time to invest into? The fact of the matter is that men progress because women do the majority of the “wife-work” so that a man has the time and space to be visible on the office and selfishly devote time to what they need to do.

 

[Whatevesmate]

First time posting on Tattle. I came here following the Sali Hughes freaky Friday vid - thanks Sal - and found this thread. It's been such a relief to see smart, funny, thoughtful women discussing in detail so many of the issues that have been infuriating me for ages. I've been in bed for the past fortnight with pneumonia and in between coughing and sleeping I have been working my way through the whole of this discussion. Just what the doctor ordered!

I am a survivor of extensive CSA and I am horrified and outraged by so much of what is being advocated by so called progressives. I was banned from Twatter last year after attempting to expose the utter noncery of "MAP's" - despite the fact that I was trolled relentlessly, threatened with rape and murder and eventually doxxed. Yet I got banned for erm, hateful behaviour

I am so angry that so many of us are too scared to challenge this trans BS for fear of the repercussions. Its not progressive its fascism. I say this as someone with left-wing, political beliefs. I currently feel like I have no political home and despite years of activism feel really burned out and hopeless.

Anyhow I finally plucked up the courage to post here. I want to connect with others who see this for the dangerous, toxic and regressive BS it is. So hi and thank you all for giving me a glimmer of hope.

 

[colouredlines]

I have zero interest in children but I've never been on the childfree thread - I don't want them, nothing more to talk about!

Today I met up with a gay male friend and he asked me what I thought about Laurel Hubbard. Can of worms time...we ended up having a very long discussion about so many areas of the gender debate. It was interesting to see the perspective of someone who hasn't previously paid much attention; he told me at first he thought it was fine to have trans athletes, then he realised what that actually entailed, and quickly changed his mind.

As a gay guy, the transwomen he's more familiar with are the old school types, who called themselves gay men before they transitioned. He told me he was quite shocked by how broad the trans category has become now.

It was pretty refreshing. As I said before, I don't often talk about these things in real life, so it's always nice to find someone who is on the same page as me. It's also interesting to see his perspective; I think a lot of people hear "transwoman" and still think of Dana International, so they get the shock of their life when Laurel Hubbard lumbers into view!

 

[Platformcrocs]

Owen Hurcum is an entitled and misogynistic man and unfit to be Mayor of Sesame Street, let alone Bangor. It says it all when he doesn't see an issue with referring to women as "TERFs".

He was waffling on about how "cis women" can access HRT within 3 months of their initial appointment with a GP. Simply not true. I've seen plenty of women in my life fight for HRT (for menopause) after being prescribed antidepressants for years and gaslit by doctors. He has absolutely no idea what women experience.

My view is that he along with the other TRAs need to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop squawking that the NHS is discriminating against them. No one is stopping them from going private.

 

[thegirlscout]

Spoiler: Off topic - goady posters

I've noticed people trying to derail this thread recently, and seen some goady types in the childfree thread too. Fair play to the mods here, they're not completely oblivious like the Mumsnet mods, or deliberately ignorant like FB/IG guidelines and they actually nip reported posts in the bud, or put them behind a spoiler with a trigger warning like the kink defence one.

I may be in the minority here but I don’t mind people coming to this thread and giving their viewpoints which may differ from mine. Some things should be behind spoiler tags though like the kink one.

I don’t know how to word this well but the situation in Afghanistan has made me double down on my belief that natal born women need to have their own spaces. Women don’t get to opt out of oppression, especially women over there. I made a comment earlier that if he was in Afghanistan, Eddie Izzard would definitely be in ‘boy mode’ all the time and I really do think that. Women never get the chance to leave their biology behind them. If theTaliban turned up and we said ‘actually, we identify as men’ does anyone really think they would take any notice? Does anyone else feel the same way about what’s been happening?

 

[Cocobaby09]

I'm in a women's style group on FB and a trans woman has joined. She posts frequently and, frankly, looks like a miner wearing a wig but all the comments are 'love your bravery' 'gorgeous' and so on. She makes comments about having a blonde moment and needing chocolate like she's a parody of a woman, it really gets on my nerves.

I was unceremoniously chucked out of a make up group on FB for refusing to validate an AGP who looked marginally less feminine than Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks combined. I just said why are you all telling lies, he looks ridiculous. Went down like a shit sandwich.

 

[af2394]

This has probably already been discussed recently but I’m getting really sick of women who have had hysterectomies or women with fertility issues being compared to trans women in order to make them feel better about not being able to have periods and bear children… like woman with these issues are comparable in anyway to trans women .. I saw something on Reddit earlier where a transwoman was saying how much they wished they had periods and people were like “not all cis women even get periods” omg just fuck off. It is nowhere near the same thing and I find it disgusting to compare it.. Sorry for the rant but i have nowhere else to say this and it’s been bugging me all day