Gender Discussion #13

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

To be honest, I’m starting to doubt your intentions in this thread, such is your tendency to bring your sex life into it. This thread isn’t to display your kinks and frankly I’m starting to find it all very weird. If you’re trying to convert a bunch of kink-shaming radfems it isn’t working.

Any sex that requires aftercare and “soothing salves” (such strange, flowery language) is harmful to women.

I’m going to step away from this thread until the vibe gets back to normal.

I want to back this comment up. Having a different opinion is one thing, but I just found it really off when your response to a member discussing how they didn't want their partner to watch porn was to suggest that they discuss making sex with their partner more pornified. Her whole comment had been that she didn't like to feel that she had to compete with porn so why on earth would she then want to discuss enacting some of it?

I also question how healthy it is to engage in activities with your partner to the point of there being physical evidence of abuse.

I quite agree with Glinner when he says 'bring back kink shaming' - there are some things that are just a bit fucked up.

 

[threeSMEGfridges]

Very telling that replies are turned off - the twitter version of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la la la I can't hear you"

WTF does “reframe their experiences” even mean?! It’s becoming one of those woke meaningless expressions…

however I’m sorry to learn that the centre has had to deal with abusive phone calls- that is not on however the staff and organisations perhaps need to re-examine who they are choosing to publicly represent them and speak for them.

 

[emm]

I will never understand it either, and I will never understand women who claim they love to be choked and it’s their idea to do it in bed, not their partners.

I think there’s a book to be written somewhere about porn and the way it influences what women want to have done to them, sexually. I don’t believe any woman inherently, naturally wants to be choked and beaten during sex. It’s fucked up.

Clearly, it’s a new “thing” to go mainstream. Every generation seems to embrace a new risqué sexual act, more risqué than the last. I’m old enough to remember the idea of anal being something that no woman really did. I certainly didn’t read about it in 90s teen magazines. Now we have Teen Vogue advising girls about how to do it.

just because you dont understsnd something doesn't mean no one likes it. I didn't grow up watching porn at all, Idont think I saw it at all until my 20s, well after the time I was sexually active and knew what I liked. I couldn't imagine going down on a woman but I understand lots of people do, we areall different. I dont exclusively like rough sex either, there are loads of things I like depending on who I am with, i awould never have rough sex with someone I didn't trust not to go over my boundaries and i guess i have been lucky in that this has never happened

 

[mindlessness]

just because you dont understsnd something doesn't mean no one likes it. I didn't grow up watching porn at all, Idont think I saw it at all until my 20s, well after the time I was sexually active and knew what I liked. I couldn't imagine going down on a woman but I understand lots of people do, we areall different. I dont exclusively like rough sex either, there are loads of things I like depending on who I am with, i awould never have rough sex with someone I didn't trust not to go over my boundaries and i guess i have been lucky in that this has never happened

I’m curious if you’re comfortable sharing - your first experiences of rough sex, were they with people who had watched porn?


I sort of assume given porn is so pervasive in society that it’s inevitable one or more people in a sexual encounter will have seen it and been influenced by it (subconsciously or otherwise). Maybe that’s overly cynical of me? (Cynical of society, not you!)

 

[emm]

I’m curious if you’re comfortable sharing - your first experiences of rough sex, were they with people who had watched porn?


I sort of assume given porn is so pervasive in society that it’s inevitable one or more people in a sexual encounter will have seen it and been influenced by it (subconsciously or otherwise). Maybe that’s overly cynical of me? (Cynical of society, not you!)

The first person was my first boyfriend and he had watched porn before, but having looked at his internet history out of curiosity (much much later) it was very much not at all rough porn (in fact despite claiming to be totally straight it was mostly gay porn, but that is whole other story )However, he was older than me (I am mid 30s now) so, as with me, he wouldn;t have grown up watching porn like young people today do. That said, I have also slept with a few people who definitely would have grown up watching porn and they have not been into rough sex at all so I do not have experience of men being more rough now, but most of the people I sleep with are my age or older.
As I said he was my first boyfriend and the first person I felt totally comfortable expressing what I wanted in bed, and I was the one who bought up the issue of what I wanted him to do, I had no idea he would be into it but luckily he was. As I have said, this wasn;t the only kind of sex we had but it was one element of our sex life, and I have had lots other relationships/flings where rough sex has never been an element as they are not into it.
I think personally the whole issue is very difficult as I know lots of people (women especially) are uncomfortable with voicing what they want in bed and so may be afraid to say they don't want to do certain things, slightly OT but I was shocked to learn I have female friends (of my age-ish) who have never had an orgasm with a male partner as they don't feel they can tell/show them what to do and I think part of this is that there is, to a large extent (when I grew up at least) that sex was something women basically did to please men, almost as a chore, and there is no focus on female pleasure
I hope that is clear! sorry for the essay!

 

[mindlessness]

@emm thank you for responding! I was worried I was being too nosy. I really appreciate it.

I agree completely re the need for women to feel more comfortable to express their likes and dislikes. And amen to women’s pleasure needing to be more of a focus!

 

[emm]

@emm thank you for responding! I was worried I was being too nosy. I really appreciate it.

I agree completely re the need for women to feel more comfortable to express their likes and dislikes. And amen to women’s pleasure needing to be more of a focus!

haha no don't worry, I am finding this whole discussion very interesting

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I'm getting annoyed seeing comments online about incels saying "they should just hire hookers."

 

[Lanabanana]

I'm getting annoyed seeing comments online about incels saying "they should just hire hookers."

WTF so these incels should just purchase a woman's body so they can have their desires fulfilled and potentially be abused and degraded by the incel. And they say sex work is a valid form of work! Yes nice that women have to be the ones to put themselves in danger to please a man

 

[threeSMEGfridges]

WTF so these incels should just purchase a woman's body so they can have their desires fulfilled and potentially be abused and degraded by the incel. And they say sex work is a valid form of work! Yes nice that women have to be the ones to put themselves in danger to please a man

Also, Incels seem to be a combination of chronic low self-esteem / poor social skills coupled with toxic narcissism.

They bemoan not being good enough for 'hot' women; but this isn't a fault of theirs so much as the female species' as a whole. They have an extreme sense of entitlement to have sex with women (which in this case I do mean the female sex). Hence their whole Chad/Stacey narrative crap.

They're "not like other men" however this is more of a failing of the women who they want to be with sexually but also think are too stupid to see how more ideal they are.

 

[emm]

Also, Incels seem to be a combination of chronic low self-esteem / poor social skills coupled with toxic narcissism.

They bemoan not being good enough for 'hot' women; but this isn't a fault of theirs so much as the female species' as a whole. They have an extreme sense of entitlement to have sex with women (which in this case I do mean the female sex). Hence their whole Chad/Stacey narrative crap.

They're "not like other men" however this is more of a failing of the women who they want to be with sexually but also think are too stupid to see how more ideal they are.

They are actually terrifying and it seems to be a really growing movement, it is like a worse and more extreme version the whole "Men's rights activitists" "Pick up artists" movements

 

[Scotch Mist]

WTF so these incels should just purchase a woman's body so they can have their desires fulfilled and potentially be abused and degraded by the incel. And they say sex work is a valid form of work! Yes nice that women have to be the ones to put themselves in danger to please a man

These incels are pathetic inadequate gross excuses for men but women selling sex is the oldest profession in the world.

I don't think that prostitution will ever disappear. Unfortunately any woman who works as a sex worker will always be in some sort of danger. Punters are an unknown quantity and the risk comes with the job.

 

[emm]

These incels are pathetic inadequate gross excuses for men but women selling sex is the oldest profession in the world.

I don't think that prostitution will ever disappear. Unfortunately any woman who works as a sex worker will always be in some sort of danger. Punters are an unknown quantity and the risk comes with the job.

yeah I agree, it is such an impossible situation really.
Incels are effectively a danger to all women, they are the kind of men you would reject for a date and end up being attacked

 

[Scotch Mist]

yeah I agree, it is such an impossible situation really.
Incels are effectively a danger to all women, they are the kind of men you would reject for a date and end up being attacked

They appear to be absolutely vile but it's not really anything new. There have always been men who hate women because they can't form meaningful relationships and have no respect for women.

Most of them are too dumb to realise that it's not all about looks, it's about who you are. If a man is respectful, kind, trustworthy and treats a woman well then it goes a long way. Plenty of women won't care that he doesn't look like a movie star if he is a decent person and has some personality and purpose in life.

It's bleeping tragic that society hasn't moved on. Instead it seems to be regressing.

 

[emm]

They appear to be absolutely vile but it's not really anything new. There have always been men who hate women because they can't form meaningful relationships and have no respect for women.

Most of them are too dumb to realise that it's not all about looks, it's about who you are. If a man is respectful, kind, trustworthy and treats a woman well then it goes a long way. Plenty of women won't care that he doesn't look like a movie star if he is a decent person and has some personality and purpose in life.

It's bleeping tragic that society hasn't moved on. Instead it seems to be regressing.

Totally agree, so many things really, so you want a "beautiful" girl (I use this in quote marks because really this is subjective) but despite them offering nothing, in terms of personality or appearance. The entitlement is really soemthing else. These are the type of men who complain about "gold diggers" yet literally are looking for this type of relationship.
I also think it is ironic (in a sense) that men would be able to have sex more easily (imo anyway) if femisnism was more normal so that women weren't fearful of being called "slutty" or whatever

 

[AlanBanan]

These are the type of men who complain about "gold diggers"

Low value men with not a cent in their pocket always will call women “gold diggers” yet actual wealthy men couldn’t care less

 

[emm]

Low value men with not a cent in their pocket always will call women “gold diggers” yet actual wealthy men couldn’t care less

exactly, it is just any excuse they can use to level at us tbh, whether even relevant to them or not. gold diggers, too attractive, too prudish, too slutty... ugh. Vile people all of them. Has anyone encountered one in real life? I have (as I assume all women have) encountered men who refuse rejection, but to the incel extreme? I rememeber my ex (who I have mentioned here before and used prostitutes before we were together..) had a quite entitled attitude to sex, i,,e he had paid for dinner so...

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

exactly, it is just any excuse they can use to level at us tbh, whether even relevant to them or not. gold diggers, too attractive, too prudish, too slutty... ugh. Vile people all of them. Has anyone encountered one in real life? I have (as I assume all women have) encountered men who refuse rejection, but to the incel extreme? I rememeber my ex (who I have mentioned here before and used prostitutes before we were together..) had a quite entitled attitude to sex, i,,e he had paid for dinner so...

I don't know if he was an incel but there was one guy I used to work with where it wouldn't surprise me...

His boss and his bosses boss were both women and he clearly had a problem with being subordinate to them, he would refuse to do any work they gave him and do things his way instead (which was the incorrect way). When they would eventually get annoyed and tell him off he would snap at them really loudly. If a female colleague asked him to do something he's mumble angrily and just not do it. He would spend a lot of his day staring at the woman who sat next to me (different team, small office) - not moving, barely even blinking, just staring, sometimes for hours a day. He would come over and talk to me repeatedly and kept telling me how easy it would be for him to get guns in his home country (New Zealand - not sure if that's true).

He unnerved me so much I had literally planned my escape route in case he showed up one day with a gun.

Edit - just had a look and it seems like he has left and set up his own company, god knows what he'll be like as a boss

 

[AlanBanan]

Incels love to create the idea that women have super high standards, when in reality it’s been proven time and time again. Women’s standards for men is far less than men’s standards for women.

It’s kind of a self soothing approach they have created because even though women have such low standards, women still won’t date them.

Also their logic is very similar to nazi ideas and other discriminatory groups like

“Jews are super powerful and connected but also very weak”

“Hispanic people are lazy but they’ll steal our jobs”

“women are so stupid and dumb but they’re also manipulative enough to warp the world”

It’s also very amusing that they have high requirements for women with their insane logic that cancels itself out such as -

The Virgin but is a slut in bed

Has no life experiences - but is a domestic goddess

Is tiny - but has massive tits.

They have standards no woman on Earth can uphold but at the same time they’re just an unwashed man with a severe mental illness festering in their mothers basement talking about how women are the reason they can’t succeed in life.

 

[Platformcrocs]

exactly, it is just any excuse they can use to level at us tbh, whether even relevant to them or not. gold diggers, too attractive, too prudish, too slutty... ugh. Vile people all of them. Has anyone encountered one in real life? I have (as I assume all women have) encountered men who refuse rejection, but to the incel extreme? I rememeber my ex (who I have mentioned here before and used prostitutes before we were together..) had a quite entitled attitude to sex, i,,e he had paid for dinner so...

An ex of mine is an incel. We were together when we were literally children (14-16), lost contact for years and I came across him a few years ago and found that he went full incel. Even has an anime twitter avatar

I don't really know what happened to him. He stopped going to school at around 15 and since then has had very little contact with anyone in real life, he is online 24/7 so got wrapped up in the incel forums. He always had a huge issue with women even as a teenager. We had some very bizarre arguments, one highlight was when he accused me of travelling to the US to have sex with a 25 year old guy - I was 15 at the time and have never been to the States. Weird guy tbh