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freya

Active member
I am a lurker, I follow several threads on Tattle but don’t reply as I don’t want to be accused of bullying (as work for NHS) so this is my first post but I’ve been a Tattle lurker since the first lockdown and this is the first time I’ve ever felt enraged enough to post. I’m still grunking my way through the last thread and just want to say HOW DARE SHE? Some of us have actual issues, don’t eat enough and use what little income they get (supported by UC) to take care of their children. I don’t have the luxury of shopping around. I live in a city centre and shop daily at the express versions of the big TWO. It’s all I have time for because I WORK, BUSY, etc etc. I get yellow sticker items when I can but otherwise it’s nutritionally balanced basic meals that I actually cook rather than just melting everything into inedible slop. I don’t whine about it. I don’t have a tip jar. I just get on with it like a lot of people living in less-than-ideal circumstances do. Sorry if my incandescence shines through but she is so full of shit and I wish I could call her out. She knows nothing about struggle. Back to continue grunking last thread now kids are asleep. Hi by the way.
 
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colouredlines

VIP Member
Finally caught up! Many Frauen have already made the points that I wanted to make while I was reading, but fucking hell. What a wild ride.

1) Don't panic, this will pass. Jack seems to have a knack for going viral once a year, and always in Q1: in 2020, it led to the GENIUS that was Daily Morning Kitchen, and in 2021 we had that weird photo crying at Rishi Sunak that led to her appearing on the news and allegedly being cut off for calling Boris Johnson a narcissist. This is the latest version, and it will fizzle out soon.

2) That being said, this is particularly insidious. It's incredibly irresponsible to tell people, many of whom are already in a bad mental state, that they're going to starve to death. A week or so ago (a lifetime in thread terms), I linked to an old article of Jack's where she went into inappropriate detail about named individuals' suicides, describing their methods and claiming to know their reasons. This has the same gleeful air of appropriation about it. Jack would absolutely love it if some poor people starved to death. Think of the media opportunities she'd get!

3) The blue tickers who are fawning over her...sorry, but lol. I know a lot of you are big Nigella fans - I'm really, really not - but the idea that she has any clue about the realities of poverty is laughable. Ditto Hugh Grant. This has always been Jack's MO: she can tell absurd stories about poverty, because people with no experience of it will believe her. Then these stories scare people who actually live in poverty, because they start to think, "Oh god, if things don't improve I'll be nibbling stock cubes and selling my lightbulbs." Eventually, a lot of them come around, because they realise that nope, NOBODY nibbles stock cubes and sells their lightbulbs. But the lifelong rich continue to enable her.

4) The basic premise of her rant is flawed, and not just mathematically. First, as has been pointed out, she ignores cultural considerations. Just because someone is poor does not mean they want to eat the vile slurry that is tinned spaghetti, FFS! Take lamb: at the supermarket I use, it takes up very little shelf space. But there's a Moroccan butcher's shop in my neighbourhood which sells a lot more cuts at lower prices. Is that because the Moroccan immigrants are enjoying a jolly knees-up night after night? No, it's because they tend to cook with lamb a lot more than Catalans do. The UK is far, far more ethnically diverse, so this happens on a much wider scale. Then of course she ignores the fact that budget products have been rebranded in an effort to compete with Aldi and Lidl, because Harvest Moon and Crunchy Croc sound nicer than Value and Smart Price.

5) The Vimes analogy makes absolutely no sense in this context. It's also - and with all due respect to Terry Pratchett, who was a great author and an extremely impressive individual - just a more eloquent way of saying "buy cheap, buy twice." This does not apply to food. It does apply to other basic products (washing up liquid, for example), but Jack has never given a shit about those.

6) Speaking of which...I'll say it again: JACK WAS NEVER POOR. I forensically examined her output during the Poverty years a while back, and she was lying from day one - I think it's all on the wiki. In the early years she detailed the massive rent she willingly paid, the cats she adopted at the height of her poverty, the random businesses she kept starting, etc etc. Look at that Sunday People article. She keeps saying how during the Poverty she was so skinny from malnutrition, but...she wasn't? Like, the photo is right there, we have other photos from that time, she was a perfectly healthy weight, she was not starving, fuck off Jack.

7) Related to this - when I looked through Jack's old blog archive, it became clear that her first priced recipes were part of the Live Below the Line challenge, which she used to do every year. The thing is, when you look at her old challenges, you realise that she doesn't actually know how to shop on a microbudget. She's always buying things like stock cubes or mixed herbs or jars of lemon curd for 30p, out of a budget of 5£ for 5 days. If you have 5£ for 5 days, it makes NO sense to buy nutritionally void flavourings like mixed herbs or stock cubes; that 30p could buy you a tin of beans, which would provide protein for 2 meals.

8) In fact, here's an example of Vimes maths: there was one old blog I read where she recommended buying stock cubes instead of salt, which is utterly fucking insane. Salt is far more versatile, is used for baking bread. A bag of salt will last you a year, while a pack of 10 stock cubes will last you...10 meals. You'll spend far, far more on stock cubes than you would on salt if you take Jack's advice.

9) Here's a question: what could a budget-focused recipe writer actually do that's useful in the face of rising inflation? If I were Jack - and in this scenario we'll pretend that Jack actually knows something about food - I'd be pursuing a partnership with Aldi or Lidl. They have the most diverse special offers of any supermarkets (here at least, I assume it's the same in the UK), and they change every week. Wouldn't it be great to have a recipe writer with a deal to say "This week is Japanese Week at Lidl! Here are 5 simple, cheap dishes you can make with their discount products" or "Cabbage is in the Super 6 this week! Why not try one of my great cabbage recipes?" That would be a lot more useful than blindly flailing away at Twitter.

10) Finally: I for one am ecstatic that the last time she went THIS viral she had the kumquat, and this time she has Boris Johnson hair. Great look there, Jack!
 
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Flash123

VIP Member
I feel like I should add in a reminder that Jack monroe, director of on a bootstrap LTD hasn’t paid her taxes yet. Just in case any newbies or FT journos read this!
 
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crystaleyesd

VIP Member
Доброе утро frauen, being BUSY as Vlad's PA doesn't leave much time for grunking these days, but he wanted me to report back with the situation in Russia. Of course, Thorpe Bay is the centre of the known universe but I thought it would be useful to note that other places exist which are *also* experiencing food price increases (maverick, I know :cool:).

Russia's food prices have been increasing for a while now and are hitting poorer Russians hard, but this is a complex situation. After sanctions were imposed in 2014, inflation went a bit crazy and prices skyrocketed, but a combination of counter sanctions and increase in agricultural practices meant that they dropped in the years following. But the pandemic has had an impact globally on supply chains and the availability of (sad to say) terribly paid migrant labour. Russia relies massively on farm workers from former Soviet republics AND we know that Britain does/did too rely on largely Eastern Europeans picking strawberries for £2/hour or something appalling like that. Actually, both Brexit and sanctions for Crimea are comparable in terms of availability of goods/ease of imports across the border.

Russia has several indexes for tracking real-world price increases which focus on the shopping habits of average Russians (the vast majority of which live paycheck to paycheck). The Borscht Index tracks the cost of the standard ingredients for making borscht soup (potatoes, carrots, beets, sour cream etc) and has risen between 2-15% since this time last year (depending on which region you live in). The Olivier (salad Russians love to eat at new year which is basically sausage, potatoes, pickles and mayo) Index has risen by up to 15% since last year. These indexes don't include champagne or lamb or caviar, but they are not crazy figures like 344% because they reflect the actual situation that is happening? Which is that poor/late harvests, increase in farming equipment and supplies and lack of cheap labour (plus panny d) have caused a rise in inflation. But it's also acknowledged that these indexes only have limited use in capturing the nuance between family to family, region to region - to actually do that would require a crazy amount of work (lol) that Jack just aint gonna do 🥴

So in response Vlad capped prices on some of the Russian staples such as sugar and oil and flour. Economists are saying that this is a stupid short term fix (he had an election coming OKAY) and will actually fuck the economy more in the long run by discouraging farmers (who are already struggling in the UK as several fraus have mentioned). It seems like this is what Jack wants to happen too? It also seems like Jack is focusing her attention on bags of carbs/things in tins rather than fresh food like she doesn't understand that these things are also dependent on farmers/crops?? When it comes down to it, the main issue is the fact that salaries/benefits are not increasing in line with being able to pay for food (and the terrifying energy hike which is partly due to Vlad hoarding all the gas - see, it's all CONNECTED). Shouting at the Tories for purposely screwing "the poor" by refusing to protect cheap food prices displays a terrible grasp of the complexity of the situation.

ANYWAY thank you for coming to my lecture. Might I suggest Jack's index drop the ridiculous Vimes analogy (food gets eaten almost immediately so it's not a false economy at all - you can either afford it or you can't??) and renames it after one of her essential slop dishes? How about the Come-to-Bed-Parmigiana Index? Horse-Spunk-Lasagne Index? Manky-Salad-Bag-Pesto Index? The options are endless...
 
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Veronicaaa

VIP Member
***LITERALLY*** COSPLAYING POOR WITH THAT BANK BALANCE SCREENSHOT!!! THE VERY THING WE'RE SAYING SHE'S DOING!!! SORRY FOR THE CAPS LOCK I AM SO ANGRY!!!
 
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Fruitjack

VIP Member
Mr F has just innocently said ‘I see your mate is all over the place’ and I grunted and he said ‘well it’s a good thing she’s highlighting’ and it has led to a huge row and me ranting and now the atmosphere is frosty.

ah well long term readers will know that this frees up my Saturday morning for more grunking.
 
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Flivver

VIP Member
Can I just say when MR did his thing with the school meals he actually lobbied the pm and got results pretty much instantly.

He then worked on full time meals and has raised loads for this in need. He has remained humble throughout and carries on in his real job.

She has done nothing but talk for days, weeks, years now and yet we are all in the same boat. All she ever does is Yammer on. It's BORING. Actually get out there and sort it if that's what you wanna do.

Rant over. Going for a piss and a coffee.
Too true.

Remember that not once did she like or comment on Marcus and Tom’s weekly Instagram recipes for Full Time Meals.

Nada, zilch, nothing, radio silence, no AMPLIFICATION there Ninnies. Probably because she wasn’t involved (and no money in it for her) despite her frequent pronouncements that she was working ‘behind the scenes’ on the project…she inferred as much to that squig who mentioned Marcus yesterday.
 
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Veronicaaa

VIP Member
What I can't get over about yesterday is that she basically started out the day by instigating a phone-in where various people implied they were suicidal and didn't know how they were going to go on (one guy said he didn't think he'd make it to the end of the year) and ended it high as a kite on adulation, posting pics of her massive tea chest thing and her vast array of tea bags, boasting about all her media appearances, and going on about how she's going to Asda to stock up on their economy range just so that she can photograph her haul. It's beyond tone deaf. Did she even mention how people can help yesterday, did she post any links to charities or helplines? Naw, all she cares about is the boost in her own visibility.

ETA - she's awake and apparently has the role of Prime Minister in her sights.

Screenshot 2022-01-22 at 10.16.22.png
 
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Itchy of Itchington

Well-known member
It might have already been mentioned in one of the other 200 threads but Jack reminds me, especially with the riot comment of Camila Batmengelidh who ran kids company. A history of lying including from disabilities to childhood to secret work without their name attached. Being the only person with the solution, wildly overstating their impact and asking for money for projects which don't seem to have the promised outcomes. Kids Co and Batmangeligh were also loved by people who wanted to show how much they cared without actually getting their hands dirty or looking too closely at what was being done but wanting to be seen as doing the right thing. Both making wild claims of riots and deaths if they don't get their money.
Kids Company did actually exist however despite dreadful management. Other people benefited from money, whereas Jack's projects are entirely meretricious. (Go Jackie, we know you love a big word. Use that one to describe the Price Index!)
 
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Can’t believe I’ve just had to have a conversation with what’s essentially a JOB induced squiggle - and even worse we’re married.

I said don’t you think if that (the savings comment) was true we’d be fucking hemmorhaging money? Don’t you think we’d have noticed?! And he said no because we can afford it it’s worse for poor people - like this shit is insane? Jack is creating this idea that you’ve got poor poor Dickensian urchins of people or billionaires, *everyone* has a finite amount of cash that price fluctuations eat into??? Every budget is harmed by inflation, obviously it’s worse when it’s heating or eating and not heating or a city break but nevertheless this isn’t some conspiracy as she pushes!!

I also asked the price of some household goods and he told me what I assume was the 1999 prices of them - so in the nicest way this is someone who can’t even do a fag packet fact check re: the 344%.

I said look it’s okay if you agree with her but please do the research eg King Chris, academic peer reviewed research and he goes “oh I’m not reading all that”. This is who Jack’s content is for - lazy but well intentioned liberals who don’t get it but desperately wish they did. And Jack’s spreading misinformation to them!!!

I honestly don’t know what to do with the de-programming, I feel like an anti vaxxer? Like are we insane?!!! This is so clearly bollocks she’s not substantiated ANY of these claims, how has this been given the legs it has?!?!?!
 
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Jelly Bean

VIP Member
I know bugger all about price indexes or such and haven't taken a 10 year granular interest in such things, but I was listening to Farming Today this morning and something struck me about Jackanomics. She seems to have no curiosity or interest in the production of food or farming or why some foodstuffs might be getting more expensive eg her assertion apples are smaller and more expensive - is there a reason for this? Have weather conditions affected the apple harvest? She seems to think food production is a static thing - and pricing is just decided arbitrarily to annoy poor people. She might be right - but I have seen no evidence of her looking into any reasons for food price increases other than 'prices have gone up and this is wrong'. I have no idea myself, but don't pretend to be an expert.
 
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OwlRightsReserved

VIP Member
Unfortunately had to go to the supermarket this morning, and among other things, buy Post-Its for work stuff. They didn't just have a packet of normal yellow ones so I had to get a multi-coloured pack (Tesco value tho, Jack) and I'm seething that my office might become akin to Monroe Towers.

🔺but I do a lot of research approval in a uni setting and I'm really having a proper laugh at Jack's "working group". How's she vetting the qualifications of the people she's added, other than by just blindly believing their tweets? How is she going to account for researcher bias when they come across data that doesn't fit the prescribed narrative she's started with? This isn't a case of "this is my hypothesis, and I am researching to see if I'm correct", this is "I am right and I am going to show you".

What's her timescale? How will she account for supply chain issues (both COVID and Brexit-related) impacting price, which CPI takes into account?
The whole point of CPI is that it recognises the breadth of the economy. Jack's "research" (and I use that so loosely) is extremely narrow, but lacking in the depth that would make that specificity meaningful.

If this proposal came in front of me, I'd laugh it all the way to the bin.
 
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