Madeleine McCann #4

[caroleffinbaskin]

I’ve said from the very beginning of this case that if the McCanns were from a council estate holidaying at Butlind and left their kids to go out for a meal, they would have been vilified in the press and would likely have had the twins taken off them. The thing that convinced me something was off was when she washed “Cuddle Cat”. As a mum, you just wouldn’t.

 

[missmina]

Absolute bollocks. Amarel was a crook as proven, & tried pinning Maddies disappearance on the McCanns because he didn’t have a clue. His tactics were disgusting & ultimately hindered the investigation along with the useless Portuguese police’s handling of the case, let alone the media frenzy to begin with.

The McCanns have done a wonderful job bringing up the twins & keeping them at arms length & out of the media’s eye throughout everything. It’s a shame the media done what they always do. How disgusting.

Too bad they didn’t do a wonderful job when leaving small kids alone in an unlocked apartment

 

[50sGirl]

I’ve said from the very beginning of this case that if the McCanns were from a council estate holidaying at Butlind and left their kids to go out for a meal, they would have been vilified in the press and would likely have had the twins taken off them. The thing that convinced me something was off was when she washed “Cuddle Cat”. As a mum, you just wouldn’t.

BIB
That was the bit that always astounded me. Why would you wash away your child’s scent?
I lost my Dad 18 months ago and I have his unwashed fleece jacket in my wardrobe scrunched into a ball, so that it won’t lose his scent. I sometimes get it out just to smell “him” again. I know one day the scent will be gone but there is no way I’d ever wash it.
To do that to a missing child’s toy just astounds me.

 

[Glaschelle]

The friends are weird as fuck too.

Didn't they all leave their kids to go to dinner and supposedly take it in turns to check the kids??? This was apparently the reason for the unlocked apartment.

And if I remember correctly one of the dad's took a turn in checking the kids and was away ages. But I'm sure I've read none of the tapas 7 were ever actually questioned by the police. So many errors in this case from the very beginning.

And just to give some context to the McCanns, I came home the other week to 2 police cars sitting in my street - they were there for my neighbour. Her wee boy had gone into school and told his teacher he was left alone at home. Turns out he had been left at home a couple of times. Both of them work full time - she works days and he works in the evenings and the husband had left him a couple of times when she'd got stuck in traffic. They also haven't been able to get an after school place for him.

Any way after the wee boy told the teacher all hell broke loose. Police cars, social workers the whole shebang. She was in bits but the in-laws and extended family have rallied to support them and social work won't be taking any further action. She knows it wasn't acceptable but the 2 of them are working hard to hold down full times jobs and look after their 2 kids.

So again, someone explain to me how nobody investigated the McCanns???

 

[Mollywobbles]

Ok…here goes.
My ex was a controlling man. At the time we were a very happy family, Enid Blyton type. But only because I did everything to make life easy, kids well behaved, smart, clean, no arguments. I was on a permanent diet, hair always just right, dressed smartly. Great cook but we only ate what he liked.
Life was bliss…as long as we did what he wanted.
I won’t bore you details but at that time, if he had insisted we went for a meal and left the children alone then I would have done it.
Anything to maintain the happy family. I really believed I was doing the best for my children.
When I look at Kate, I see me and him.

When I did stand up to him…I got promoted at work, was earning the same so queried why I could not make family decisions then he punished me by having an affair. It wasn’t the first, he did it to show I was not indispensable. But it gave me the courage to break free. My big mistake was not being open with my children and telling them how I had been bullied.

Kate is carrying guilt and still has two children to support and protect. She is hiding something.
When I look at her, I think….that could have been me, doing something I did not want to do just to keep everyone happy.

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

It has been said a few times that they were swingers. So it's is possible that they didn't want to use a babysitting service or have all the kids in one apartment because that would mean getting the kids up at the end of the meal, taking them home then resettling them into bed. Because that would interfere with the romantic end to the night.

That's one theory I had. But I'm very suspicious of the fact that only the men checked on the kids and one of the men is a known P. If that other women who met him twice figured he was a P. The rest of the group would have known. Yet he was permitted to look after Maddie, check on a sleeping Maddie, bath Maddie. That is so much of a red flag I can't get over it and makes me think something very untoward was going on.

 

[Badirene]

A co-worker worked as a travel agent before she came into insurance with me. Her travel agency would send two or three staff once a year to "audit" a resort, they would check out accommodation, activities, how supportive and informed staff were on local activities, the bars and restaurants, basically a bit of a free knees up for the staff sent. She audited the resort the McCanns were at, this was about two years before Maddie disappeared. She remembered the resort very well and her first comment was to call BS on Maddie and her siblings being left when the parents went out for the meal, my co-worker said on her audit the restaurant was like a creche at any time of day or night, every evening they dined buggies were lined up with kids asleep in them, it was very family friendly and this was expected and accepted in the resort. If working class people did what the McCanns did, they would be skewered in the press and the twins removed from their care, why are they being protected?


I don't have kids so can I ask parents here, would it not make more sense to have all the kids have a sleep over in one apartment with one adult and the families take turns doing this, so everyone gets a kid free night and the children are all safe and have fun too? It seems like the children were an inconvenience to these people, all day in kids camp then left to sleep in an apartment in a strange country at night, who does this, why even bring them if you as a parent are not spending time with them?

 

[PineappleQueen19]

The group tried the buffet restaurant on the first two evenings where you could bring children and line up the buggies but it was found wanting for some reason so they insisted on reserving the large table at the tapas bar (where there was a no children policy - understandably). Presumably they preferred the cooler vibe of the bar over the family friendly buffet restaurant but they were on a family holiday after all, so why were the children treated as an inconvenience?

I find it revealing that the bar had a no reservation policy (but bowed to pressure) and only one large table. So the group felt so arrogant as to commandeer all that space every evening for their own whims and at the risk of those poor children. These are people very used to getting what they want and not being challenged or told no.

 

[MidnightAura]

I think for me the point where I thought wtf was when Kate admitted they never physically searched for their daughter. Also her first words were ”They have taken her” Who are they? Why was her first thought abduction and if it was abduction as she was so convince why did she leave the twins alone again? One of their first calls was to Sky news? Who has sky news on speed dial?

I believe they absolutely know more than they are letting on but they have friends in high places who will protect them. As already been said if this were a working class couple who left their toddler and babies to go on the piss it would be called neglect. Two middle class doctors do it and they compare it to having dinner in their garden.

 

[shadowcat5]

Why do our police force not think that they were involved then? Why do the German police who think they have the guy responsible not think it then? These are the people with all the evidence, some evidence we as the general public don't know about too I'm sure. You are making out that the McCanns are flawless criminal geniuses to have carried this out so perfectly. Why do you give them so much credit??

As for the point people have made about them being to blame because they left them alone. I don't think anybody disputes that they were reckless, stupid and terrible parents for doing so. They deserve severe criticism for this no doubt about it. However, that does not make them guilty of abduction or murder simply because they were neglectful parents.

Also, this narrative that if they were a council housed/benefits family they would have had their other children taken in to care is just stupid. If there were other examples of neglect and mistreatment then yes they would but presumably there isn't any. They were on holiday and made a stupid decision (along with a number of other parents in their group by the way) to put the kids to bed unsupervised. They and that little girl have paid a price way out of proportion to any 'crime' the parents have committed by leaving them unsupervised.

Social services didn't even investigate as far as I am aware. If anyone had left their kids at home and gone to the pub one minute away, social services would have at least been involved and done some kind of enquiry into the family.
A stupid decision would be not bringing the buggy so you're left carrying your child or dealing with your kid overtired and upset, maybe not bringing a spare pair of clothes or a sun hat.
Leaving your toddlers in an unlocked hotel room alone while you sit in a restaurant where you can't even see the fucking room is neglect. Straight up neglect as per the exact definition of child neglect

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

I think for me the point where I thought wtf was when Kate admitted they never physically searched for their daughter. Also her first words were ”They have taken her” Who are they? was her first thought abduction and if it was abduction as she was so convince why did she leave the twins alone again? One of their first calls was to Sky news? Who has sky news on speed dial?

I believe they absolutely know more than they are letting on but they have friends in high places who will protect them. As already been said if this were a working class couple who left their toddler and babies to go on the piss it would be called neglect. Two middle class doctors do it and they compare it to having dinner in their garden.

If I left my 3 year old in a bed, in an unlocked apartment, by a road and a swimming pool in a strange place, my first thought would be she has wandered off and may be hurt.

I would be running around like a mad person checking everywhere.

The way Kate reacted was like she knew what had happened and didn't see the point in searching for her.

 

[50sGirl]

Putting aside their very odd behaviour re washing “cuddle cat“, having tennis lessons the next day and the twins and Madeleine sharing a toothbrush on holiday so they had no DNA to give the police, I find their reaction to the cadaver dogs very strange.
Had my child gone missing from an apartment, without trace, and I genuinely had no idea what had happened to her, then when the cadaver dogs detected death in that apartment I would have be inconsolable with grief. I would have believed whoever had been in that apartment had killed her and then removed her body to hide any evidence.
How did the McCan’s react? “The dogs are wrong.“ How could they KNOW that? They allegedly had no idea what had happened in that apartment yet they “knew” she hadn’t been killed there. Why did they immediately dismiss the cadaver dogs? Why were they not horrified that their daughter may have died there?

 

[Facehugger]

Whenever I went abroad on holiday when my son was younger I'd never put him in kids clubs or use a babysitting service. He's my lad, it's up to me to look after him & I'd never leave him with strangers anywhere. Therefore he was always with me, even when dining out at night, we'd pick places that were child friendly and he could eat with us, one time he wasn't well, so I stayed in with him, husband ate at the hotel restaurant then he came back to the room to look after son while I then had some dinner. Cos that's what you do when you're a responsible parent.
Whatever happened to Maddie, I'll never get my head round those little babies being left alone in that apartment.

 

[missmina]

Let’s not forget that Gerry had a blog around that time and he himself described taking a “broken” fridge from their rented apartment and taking it to a dump

Also to the poster who is so into mccanns being innocent - it’s ok to have different opinions but imo making stupid jokes about elvis and moon landing is super distasteful taking into account the topic. We can have differing opinions but the way we present them speaks a lot about ourselves.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

Parents are responsible for their childrens safety & welfare. Children are literally dependents. If something goes wrong because you neglected their safety then yeah you are responsible for what then transpires.

Leaving your three very young children (aged three and twin two year olds) alone in an unlocked apartment with street access so you can go out for a fun evening meal & drinks with your mates while abroad is more than poor parenting. I will never be able to fathom it or any defence of it as some of slip up or poor judgement, mistake etc. That they had other options like baby sitter, listening service, family friendly buffet restaurant, makes it even worse. It’s not like someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to become parents.

One thing that sums it up for me is I read in the transcripts somewhere Gerry referring to one of the days on holiday as their ‘family day’. But it was the only day of the week the crèche was closed. Selfish arsehole.

 

[grumpy-nosy-cow]

If I left my 3 year old in a bed, in an unlocked apartment, by a road and a swimming pool in a strange place, my first thought would be she has wandered off and may be hurt.

I would be running around like a mad person checking everywhere.

The way Kate reacted was like she knew what had happened and didn't see the point in searching for her.

exactly this...
i lost my daughter in a shop in a retail park when she was about 3..one minute she was next to me turned round and she had gone.
it was the most horrific feeling of blind panic/sickness like everything was in slow motion and spinning - I was running round the shop calling her name!
my first fear was she had gone out the door into the car park and could have been knocked down as it was dark ..then it turned to had someone taken her.
the staff were superb immediately guarded door and were about to put out a tannoy when a lady seeing me distressed said have you lost a little girl? she'd approched the lady and said ive lost mummy. the woman had taken her to the staff at the till point. (where she was sat in the counter)
i never understood how discovering Madeleine wasnt there she then left her other two children unattended and never joined the searches for her, then left twins behind while they visited the Pope!

 

[shadowcat5]

Agree. Im not particularly into conspiracy theory’s anyway, and I certainly don’t “want” to believe that this was anything other than an accident or genuine stranger abduction but unfortunately all of the publicity available information and evidence about this case points directly at it being an inside job and has all the hallmarks of it being linked to peadophiles/sexual abuse. I genuinely find it astonishing that anyone could research the case and still be like “nope, the parents are completely innocent of any wrong doing.”

Imo they were guilty as soon as they left 3 toddlers alone in a room. It ends there for me. Even if it was a stranger abduction, they still shoulder responsibility for their part to play.

I was listening to a podcast about a young boy (9) who died of an asthma attack in the early hours of a cold november morning. They found him outside a neighbours house after trying to get help because his mum was a drug addict and out of it. She only recently went to jail for it years later cause the initial inquest acquitted her from any wrong doing. It's the same thing imo - I appreciate that the asthma attack lead to his death but his mother who was off her face on drugs is partly responsible.

 

[50sGirl]

Whatever happened to Madeleine in that apartment it is down to the actions of her parents.
They left their children alone and Madeleine’s disappearance is a direct consequence of that.
People can defend them all they like but without their irresponsible actions we’d never have even heard of them.
Their social life came above their children - I don’t know how they behaved at home but it certainly was more important to them in Portugal.

 

[BettyCrockerr]

I’m really not one for conspiracy theories in general, I always think the most simple explanation is usually correct - but in this case there is no simple explanation as none of it makes sense. Whichever scenario is correct they’re all as far fetched as each other. All of the McCann’s behaviour points to them being involved in some way or another, whether it was an accident or something more sinister we’ll never know.

Exactly. If my child went missing on holiday (or anywhere else) would I first think to
Take a teddy and bleach wash it? Would I be completely uncooperative with the police and answer “no comment” to every question, would I carry on playing tennis and acting like I’d just lost an earring? No. It’s batshit. I can’t believe people out there think Gerry & Kate are innocent!

 

[Badirene]

My theory for what it's worth (so nothing)

Parents gave the children something to help them sleep through the night, so parents could have a meal out with friends.
Something went wrong with the dose, I would guess not enough for Maddie, she wakes and is drowsy, falls and injures herself. She doesn't survive.
When she is found the parents panic, if it's discovered they are dosing up the kids it's goodbye to their medical careers, goodbye twins, goodbye nice, respectable lifestyle where people admire and look up to them.
It was reported in the first few days of Maddie going missing that a sports holdall was in the apartment belonging to Gerry, that bag is seen on holiday footage in the wardrobe but after "abduction" never seen again.
After discovery Maddie's remains are placed in the bag, bag stored somewhere outside of apartment. Police are alerted to her disappearance. Chaos breaks out, search begins.
The parents continue with their tennis lessons, rather than search for their daughter.
At some point the bag with remains are retrieved, put into boot of new hire car and disposed of (into the sea?, If a friend on the holiday did this we now have a motive for all remaining silent)
Fundraising begins in earnest, Pope and various celebs are dragged into meeting the McCann's.
A series of sightings, predators are alleged over the years, all conveniently dead, terminally ill or already in prison. No progress is made.


The questions I think need answering:

When was the last independent, verified sighting of Maddie? Not as reported by parents, friends or any signing in or out of kids club but an actual unrelated party that can say the time and day they last saw her? (Establish timeline)
Are there facilities at the tennis lessons for those attending to store personal items in a locker area? (Store bag and remains)
The cadaver dogs alerted to an area behind the couch in the apartment (the fatal fall?)
Also the bottom of the wardrobe (where the sports bag was spotted in the holiday video, where the remains were initially placed?) then the boot of the new hire car (remains moved and disposed of?)
The dogs used have worked extensively with law enforcement worldwide, the FBI have used them successfully, so why was Gerry so dismissive and smug when asked about them with the comment, "ask the dogs" and then laughing it off when questioned over why they alerted to blood and human remains. What about any of this is funny to him?