Gender Discussions #4

[Bitofthebubbly]

This is fabulous! The last reply killed me

 

[Sunshine&clouds]

This is really scary tbh, I genuinely don't understand how men modelling products for use by women is at all progressive. Like this isn't even normal day to day clothes that transwomen will also wear...only bio women and trans men would need a bra like that? Interesting they didn't use a trans man isn't it? Almost like there's some misogyny going on yet again...

I don't have an issue with trans women wearing women's clothing, including women's underwear. Of course they should. But I do have a problem with erasing the 'women's' part. From breastfeeding to periods, women are being erased. To be brutally honest, I feel a though 'women' and 'female' have become insults. I am a feminist (and I define that as being the belief that women should have the same opportunities as men) and will not stand by whilst my body and my fears, hopes and beliefs are weaponised against me.

Women have died to get us this far in Western society, with a long way to go before we have the meritocracy we are owed. Women around the world die in their thousands giving birth, they're abused, bought and sold, denied access to healthcare, even food. Rape is used as a weapon, in war and in every street in every country on Earth. Female sex workers are seen as being an underclass, if they're raped or murdered, they're treated as though they somehow deserve it. How many tv crime dramas have women being raped, tortured and murderd? Most of them. In the US it is legal in multiple states for a man to marry a child. Female children endure the horror of genital mutilation in the UK. Women are trafficked into sex work, again in the UK.

The abuse and murder of women continues and I will not let anyone say that we are not allowed to be afraid of rape. Rape is a billion times worse than hurt bloody feelings. I will not be attacked for wanting little girls and women alike to have access to female only toilets and changing rooms. Women refuges and prisons should again be safe places. I have been raped and I would rather wee in the street than go into an enclosed space alone with men. I do not want to have my knickers around my ankles and know men are outside my cubicle, particularly as the doors are never very strong and people can easily look under or over the doors.

I am really angry and I will not stand by and let this happen. We must defend ourselves. We are being attacked, abused and threatened for existing. These people are trying to redefine what it is to be female. But being female or male isn't a pick and mix. Many want to be legally allowed to change their gender on a whim. "Today I am going to be a woman." The Tories blocked this, thank god, but they keep trying. I hate the Tories, apart from this.

I'll try and calm down now, but before I do, can I please say the biggest thank you to Tattle for letting me say these things. Thank you too for this being a safe place to do so. It's virtually the only place where we can be honest and our voices heard.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

The word 'cis' needs to get in the bin. I am not a cis woman. I am a woman.

 

[emmer_moans]

Speaking of periods, this comes from a period support group.

The state of the TiM thinking they're having a period and the state of these handmaidens pandering to him. Women have been kicked out for speaking up and now the questions for joining have changed and "no transphobia" has been called out twice. Why are people validating this persons mental illness at the expense of women?

They feel they could throw someone over a car? Because they are "hormonal"?! So basically making out that women are 'hysterical' when on periods (word origin pertaining to mania because a woman has a womb). This actually reads to me that they are performing as a woman and actually using mysogynistic tropes that women are seen as volatile and unstable when on periods.

I hate this pandering...

 

[2020two]

Nah.
To be honest I automatically assume anyone calling themselves non binary will be offended on a daily basis. These types seems to like being offended and people having to constantly apologise. However I've never been friends with a 'non binary' person so I may be mistaken.
Also what makes a person who calls themselves non binary and expert on trans issues?

My ex is non-binary. He was the cruellest, most self-obsessed narcissistic asshole I have ever had the experience of knowing. I spent our entire relationship apologising. He is a top 1% earner in the UK in a male-dominated field. He is in a position of power and has enjoyed everything that comes with being born a male, the irony of him having they/them in his work bio makes me wince. He just liked wearing ladies underwear behind closed doors and painting his nails. He was heavily into BDSM. He was male enough to sexually assault me daily, but not male enough to want to be called a man. I truly believe non-binary means "help me I have no personality and no one likes me" or it's a fetish. I am a writer and have been writing about my experience being abused by this member of the trans community, I suspect I would be shot if I published it.

glad to see you around again! I was thinking about you the other day, I hope you're doing okay.

Thank you lovely. I always love seeing your name pop up!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

This is very sad and infuriating at the same time

Here’s an idea, why don’t they get off their arses and make their own shelters? Why the fuck should women be made to move over to make room for these people. We weren’t handed these shelters on a plate we had to work for them, so for trans women to come barging in saying “what about us” is just insulting, you are not biologically a woman you have no place in a women’s refuge. Go and make your own trans friendly refuges, it will benefit us all. It won’t be easy but fuck should trans people be allowed to take a slice of what women worked hard for just because they say they feel like women.

Typical male entitlement, funny that.

 

[PeachyJam]

When talking about something directly related to your genitals (such as periods or sex toys) it's not about "defining people by their genitals" to use inclusive language it's just practical. It's exclusionary to say "ladies let's discuss your vagina" when not all ladies have vaginas and there's men with vaginas who would like that advice without being referred to as a woman.
ETA: while these terms might sound a little clunky at the moment to some, I think with time people will get more used to these terms and then hurrah we have more inclusive language that comfortably fits into the conversation!

Women have worked really hard for centuries for their rights to freedom and to not be shamed for periods and such (many parts of the world still do shame them) but now they have to be called "People with vaginas?" because of the less than 1% of the populations who identify as male and have a vagina? I know a few people who are F-M trans and I have had this discussion with them and they don't agree with using these terms. They want to be men and not a "Person with a vagina" just as much as women want to be called women. Who is actually pushing this agenda?

 

[Inforapenny]

On the Last Leg this Friday they gave a shout out to all of those who have been brave during the pandemic and had to deal with transphobia. My husband turned to me and said but not ones been out of the house
I honestly don't know who is peddling this victim narrative. I get exhausted because, as a woman, no one gives us a shout out even though there is still a pay gap, that stats show the pandemic have screwed women over financially, that we're still denied the top jobs, that our spaces are being compromised, that woman is now a dirty word, that we have to be referred to as chestfeeders.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Speaking of periods, this comes from a period support group.

The state of the TiM thinking they're having a period and the state of these handmaidens pandering to him. Women have been kicked out for speaking up and now the questions for joining have changed and "no transphobia" has been called out twice. Why are people validating this persons mental illness at the expense of women?

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I am very upset by hospitals calling maternity units perinatal services. The word mother is an important one and I'm sorry but perinatal just reduces women to birthing machines.

 

[CheshireLove]

Sadly it's already happening. The Green Party women, for eg. And here in Ireland a board member on the Womens Council for Ireland is trans.

Wtf do all these transwomen know about women’s issues? Having lived their lives as men and continuing to go through life with the attitude and entitlement of their male privilege?!

Stealing women’s work and spaces is their ultimate validation isn’t it.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This is an insult

 

[IndominusRex]

Meanwhile Prostate Cancer UK can say 'men' as much as they want

 

[Begborrowsteal]

I cannot articulate my thoughts well, and I dont have real understanding of the issues the trans community face.. but chestfeeding can get t'fuck. You feed from the breast. It is a breast whether you are male or female. It is called a breast!

It is frustrating to constantly see women and their bodies defined differently nowadays. Vagina owners, vulva owners, those with a cervix, chestfeeders.. why is it never, penis owners, those with testicles?

Wanting to be inclusive, sure but the language is always geared toward removing the woman/female defining element. Ive genuinely never seen it the other way round.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

As Germaine Greer said, women don't realise how much men hate them

 

[Inforapenny]

I truly believe TRA hate women and use the trans cause as a way to peddle hatred and control over women.

Where and when it stop?!
One thing that is infuriating (well there are many things) is the way media and journalism reports on violence against and by trans women. In doing so this skewers the perception and facts.

Firstly domestic violence against trans women is male on male violence. Those are the facts.

Secondly when trans women commit violent acts it is reported as women against women violence no it is men yet again being violent against women.

I get so angry with all of this shit from men that I have to switch off from it.
I am sick to my back teeth of men dictating how women she speak, how we should accept men in our sports, our changing rooms, our female only spaces, my bloody smear test for god sake. And if we speak the facts, we voice our concerns we are transphobic.

In my old work a big organisation we had middle aged men announcing they were actually women. Dodgy wig and all. One bloke wore skirts, fine but also a bra and was called Hannah.
You are not a woman, you biologically can't be, you will never ever know my experience as a woman.
Stop playing dress up and that's what it is dress up.

 

[emm]

Yep. A friend of mine in her mid 30s. She has been asking for over 10yrs and she is still refused.

I have just remembered it was even worse than this - she was also told "but what if you divorce and a future relationship wants children" I think she reported the doctor

 

[Inforapenny]

All our staff loos have become unisex for fear of one man claiming he's a woman and ending up in the same scenario like you say.

I work for Cambridge uni and our training for prejudice and discrimination was all about accepting people who self ID. I remember it well. If Sarah identifies as a woman even though Sarah was assigned at birth a man it is discriminatory to treat Sarah any different.
(In my head....well Sarah is a bloke and looks like a twat and why does he always insist on wearing terrible skirts and peeing all around the toilet seat....as I outwardly smile and nod my head).
And it also detracts from real, genuine issues where women are discriminated against, black and ethnic minorities are not represented enough or given equal opportunities...we know this from research.
The cynical.part of me would thinks training is focused on self Id and trans rights because the actual issues don't need to be addressed. It's men clambering to be at the top again. Everyone this happens genuine inequalities are ignored.


We've also had cases where the student union have not allowed women to speak about women's rights in fear it could be anti trans. You know sometimes women want to talk about their rights and it has nothing to do with men or the trans movement.

 

[thatstupidcat]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting shit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the shit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

Please don’t deadname Hilaria Baldwin, it’s literal violence.

Hilaria is stunning and brave.

Hilaria is a beautiful person with a beautiful Majorcan soul born to the wrong geography. She was always Spanish, even before she identified as such. Once she started wearing Spanish clothes and acting Spanish, she was and is 100% biologically Spanish.

Check your privilege, you MERF (Majorcan Exclusionary Radical Feminist)!