Gender Discussions #4

[Mycuppatea]

Am I being a bit thick here. Surely trans women is taking whatever female hormones get prescribed, daily. How the eff can the levels of these hormones fluctuate week by week so they are "having periods".

I feel it would be like me saying my dick is hard when I have a vagina.

I have CAIS/am intersex and have been on oestrogen since was 16, and also have natural female body parts except womb, ovaries and was raised as a girl.

Despite this I have never had a made up period. My hormones are basically the same every day. I see my "normal" daughter and sister go through a hormonal cycle and saw it with my mum when she was younger but I dont get that because I am not a full xx woman. That is reality and it sucks but reality is reality.

I do get greedy and over eat, get angry, get randy, have upset stomach (especially after over eating) and experience cramps, sore muscles, headaches, spots, sore boobs etc but have never felt like pretending it was because I am having a mysterious non -period period.

 

[Cunderthunt]

These cis women are getting mastectomies to save their lives. Not to "validate" gender feelings.

 

[CheshireLove]

Where the US goes, the rest of the world follows, sadly

Not while the Tories are in charge. Labour on the other hand...

The more I see “transwomen are women” the more I want to reply “no, they’re men”. Don’t tell me what a woman is. I know what a woman is and isn’t some middle aged man who gets his rocks off wearing dresses and crappily applied lippy. Wolves in sheep’s clothing.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Jenner coming out as trans and then winning woman of the year that same year is one of the first things that led me down this gender critical path. One of the first moments I was like “hold on this doesn’t feel right”. Boy did that open a can of worms for me.

 

[sheleg]

"not all ladies have vaginas and there's men with vaginas"

But this just isn't true. You can't say incorrect stuff and just expect it to fly because some people might feel excluded or 'invalidated'.

 

[Aquamarina]

I’m happy to be labelled a bigot if that bigotry means I care more about the rights of women and girls than men with a sexual fetish. These men that call us TERFs and bigots always have a certain ‘look’ don’t they? They’re usually overweight, balding, socially awkward and quite unattractive. They also generally look as if they’re in need of a good wash and haircut.

I think most of them have had difficulty finding women who find them attractive, so they get obsessed with porn and porn anime. Which then triggers their autogynephilia, which encourages them to go down the trans route. Suddenly, (certain) women tell them how much they love them and validate their new ‘identity’ telling them that they’re “stunning and brave.” Any critics or detractors like us can be dismissed as “hateful bigots” and these men can then be freely misogynistic and threaten us with violence “Choke on my girl cock”/“Kill all TERFs” etc under the guise of being ‘woke.’ It’s utterly and totally fucked up.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Regarding Eddie Izzard there are comments on Twitter like "you're the funniest female comedian ever". Yes tough luck actual female comedians, a man who has been in a male dominated industry for decades can now trample all over you because he's in 'girl mode' and now wears a dodgy hair piece.

 

[emmer_moans]

These cis women are getting mastectomies to save their lives. Not to "validate" gender feelings.

I am so angry at this kind of "logic". They've totally disregarded cancer in that equation. I dread to think of the waiting lists in some places are like for women to have life saving mastectomies if a bunch of teens and young 20 something s are queuing up to have the 'top' surgery. I'm angry to think surgeons' precious time might be prioritising this. Let's hope not. It's absurd. Want top surgery? Go private. The NHS is for people who need actual medical help, not to affirm an identity.
The same way if I wanted to change my face or add bigger boobs I would save up and go private. How dare people like this person have the AUDACITY to expect a mastectomy over a cancer patient. This is not like parent giving more sweets to one sibling over another FFS. The social media generation of teens and young adults seem to have a level of confidence and arrogance that everyone should bend to their will because they are "woke".

Sorry but this has killed any compassion I might have had on the matter. Expecting priority over dying people,

 

[Begborrowsteal]

The life of a woman and what we go through and face - you cant tag along with that if you havent lived it. Women have their own issues to face. Men have theirs. Trans have theirs. A trans woman is not a woman, in that sense. A trans woman will face different issues to a 'cis' woman. They have already lived with male privilege for a start.

But.. on a more basic level: what does it mean to feel like a woman? I remember Sam Smith saying some days they feel like a man and some days they feel like a woman. What does that mean? I only feel like a woman due to my body, my experiences and the stereotypes put upon us of emotions etc. I cant imagine what it must feel like to feel youre in the wrong gendered body. It must be so difficult and confusing. I dont get the back and forth gender swapping though.

 

[Inforapenny]

Men who decide they want to *try* and appropriate as women need to sit down together and advocate for their own trans toilets. I want nothing to do with them or them encroaching on our spaces.
In fact our toilets, and now lack of them are an example of why the trans movement is so dangerous.

This issue of their bathrooms should never ever be a woman's issue but sadly it is. Men couldn't care less, it doesn't encroach on them.
The trans movement would scoff at the idea of actually doing something themselves because it seems their ultimate goal is to encroach on women and our spaces. It's like an obsession for them. It is rooted in deep seated misogyny.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

On the communism thing, I have a few friends who basically see communism as a cure-all to the world's ills because they see all the world's ills as down to capitalism. I disagree here as I think the world's ills generally lie with humanity and whatever system you have, there's gonna be someone that that system isn't going to work for.

Plus, I'm a history graduate and I know those countries that tried to be communist were not ultimately successful. A society where there is no reward for inventiveness or extra work means there's no innovation and the economy stagnates. And you'll find that there's still a class system with haves and have nots but it's entirely political - basically, the only thing incentivised is climbing the political ladder. They also tend to become incredibly authoritarian in order to keep people from wanting to go capitalist.

On the other-hand unbridled capitalism results in mass poverty in which a tiny minority live lives of incredible wealth with more money than they can spend, while the majority of the population lives miserably in squalid conditions, with their food and water contaminated because the interests of the big businesses matter more than the health of the public.

I think the countries that get it right are the Scandinavian states which are capitalist but with very socialist policies of high taxation and excellent public services. But being anti-capitalist is much more cool than being in the middle ground.

I should also say, technically in a communist system, only people's needs should be provided - not people's wants. That sounds like a recipe for a dull as fuck life. Like someone said above, I'm pretty sure my friends who like to go on about communism would not be happy about having their things seized or the number of holidays they can have reduced because they were deemed superflouous to their need.

 

[Oohthedrama]

Women are slowly being eradicated

Are we allowed to say woman now? Genuinely not goading here I’m just confused as to what’s right and wrong these days,
I don’t really care what anyone wants to identify as but why am I the bad guy for finding this all.. overwhelming
can I say bad guy? The bad cis?? The bad *identifies as female but doesn’t want to insult by using the word female*

I’ve never in my life judged, bullied or attacked someone for the choices they make in life but I feel like people are now being shamed for not being able to navigate this mind field.

I watched a news report this morning and heard people being referred to as sis and thought jesus this has been a crazy year, not only are we navigating our way through a pandemic you can now offend someone by breathing in an overly straight/female manner.

Ill regret typing this I just feel the pressure to NOT offend has gone off the scale, when it seems like everything you do or say offends someone

 

[SqualorVictoria]

We've been saying for ages (while also being called TERF or transphobes) that Stonewall's umbrella definition of trans (to include cross dressers etc) is harmful to genuine trans people. Self ID would only see more cases like the one above happen.

 

[maytoseptember]

Sure, let’s change “women’s healthcare” to “healthcare for people who get pregnant and bleed” because that’s totally not a nonsensical mouthful of words. FFS.

Also, Eliana’s bizarre choice of words says a lot about their understanding of female bodily processes. Because I know “get pregnant and bleed” is supposed to encompass menstruation, but it just sounds like the bleeding is the thing that happens alongside or after pregnancy

 

[judgejohndeed]

The trans movement would scoff at the idea of actually doing something themselves because it seems their ultimate goal is to encroach on women and our spaces. It's like an obsession for them. It is rooted in deep seated misogyny.

So agree with this, all we ever seem to hear is how we must be allies and fight with them. Well funnily enough I don’t recall biological men fighting with women to get our rights. Put your own work in before you come at us demanding our help, it’s not our job.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I think it’s interesting that we always have to caveat everything we say with a long spiel about how we support everyone ect. We all feel the same, I don’t believe anyone doesn’t feel that way here.

I think there is the assumption something that “I’m pro trans, therefore your not”.
its all getting me down at the moment. There is such division that I can’t see how this could end. There is never any attempt at compromise, because every discussion is silenced and considered transphobic. I think this is creeping more into the mainstream now and hopefully will wake up a lot of people who haven’t seen what’s going on. No debate needs to stop, we have to discuss this to get anyway.

Totally agree with this. Also think it's interesting people saying they've avoided this thread. This is an observation and not a criticism necessarily - but I have noticed it is only ever GC posts in other threads that are rather unceremoniously dumped in here. I have seen many pro-pronoun/TRA esque discussions allowed to continue on other threads, yet when someone is GC on another thread they're either told to come here or they have their posts moved (which is why I don't even bother to engage when it comes up, now). So it was interesting to see someone say they feared coming into this thread when this seems to be one of the only - if not the only - place we can have this discussion on Tattle.
Also agree re the 'I'm more pro trans than you' thing, I am pro inclusion and treating people with respect up until the point they make clear their total disregard for women and our rights. At that point all bets are off for me. I believe there are ways of balancing rights however you can't have that discussion when the people you're speaking with won't even acknowledge that there is a need for a balance or 'trans rights don't impact women's rights'.

 

[Inforapenny]

They can't get a period. OMG. At best a hormone imbalance/reaction because they're pumped full of hormones they're not supposed to have. Also who gives a fuck, my periods have always been abnormal and attrocious and it took years to be diagnosed with endometriosis every other doctor basically prescribed tylenol/drugstore basic pain meds.

I'm feeling the rage currently off work with endometriosis complications and waiting for bowel surgery. It took 17 years to be heard and finally diagnosed. As a woman you don't get heard.
I've been given morphine intravenously and it didn't even take the edge off the pain.
Any bloke who dares to say he understands or has period pain. I'd lob my used sanitary towel at him
I'm on a rant. I just can't even begin to understand why a bloke would want period pain, to bleed or a smear test. It's sick and it's psychiatric

 

[Inforapenny]

Just an observation. Hilaria (Hillary) Baldwin has been absolutely lynched and laughed at and there is a lot of anger regarding her weird, made up persona of being Spanish heritage and not understanding English and appropriating as a different culture and ethnicity. Just strange.
She's been vilified over the internet. Her career has gone, looks like Alec Baldwin isn't living with her any more and she issued a not sorry apology.

There has been outrage and condemnation.

So when blokes like Eddie izzard and Jenner appropriate as women...and we all know they're not why are they held up as brave and stunning?
It's exactly the same scenario. Delusional people appropriating as soemthing they're not. But these blokes aren't called out, they're not laughed at, they embraced and held up as beacons of bravery.

Men just get their way all the time. I'm sick of it.
Men will never be a woman. If you say I'm transphobic for that then fine, I must be.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

View attachment 451976
Just ventured into the subreddit ‘terfisafetish’ I shouldn’t have... this shit makes me so so sad for women all around the world!

Yes I do believe *bio* women are more oppressed than someone who was born male and enjoyed all the advantages of being male. Next question

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I think it’s interesting that we always have to caveat everything we say with a long spiel about how we support everyone ect. We all feel the same, I don’t believe anyone doesn’t feel that way here.

I think there is the assumption something that “I’m pro trans, therefore your not”.
its all getting me down at the moment. There is such division that I can’t see how this could end. There is never any attempt at compromise, because every discussion is silenced and considered transphobic. I think this is creeping more into the mainstream now and hopefully will wake up a lot of people who haven’t seen what’s going on. No debate needs to stop, we have to discuss this to get anyway.

I was very much on the TRA side (though not an actual TRA) until a few months ago - I even posted on my fb feed about being disappointed with JKR! The Keira Bell case made me question things and look into things and the fact that looking into things was seen as problematic...well I found that problematic. Especially when it seemed to be that Keira's experience wasn't necessary as isolated a case as people on the TRA side would claim.

I also began to think about what made me a woman and the only thing I could think of was my biology and the experience of life as a person with that biology. Before I'd seen it the same as being gay, but now I realise that it's not. If someone comes out as gay, bi, asexual, pan at 14 and they change their mind at 18, they haven't done anything irreversible to themselves. But because of the medical aspect with being trans you have to be that bit more careful.

But you can't say that and you can't discuss it.