Gender Discussions #4

[thatstupidcat]

I don’t think Reddit is a great place for women to be really. Over on Lipstick Alley, someone helpfully identified that out that on the lesbian’s and black women’s sub reddits, 11 of the 16 moderators were TIMs. The poster had gotten fed up of constantly being suspended or banned from the groups for being less than 100% supportive of the ladydique on display. It’s worth a Google. I had a look and learned a new word: transbian (bloke who thinks he’s a lesbian).

Also, TRAs seem pretty keen to accuse British Feminists of being funded by US fundamentalist churches and groups (if that’s the case, where’s my cheque?).

Despite it being utter garbage, let’s play along for a moment in a thought experiment:

If two ideologically opposing natural enemies join forces against your ideology, what would you do?

I mean, if I was really into hats for example. Like, to an absurd degree that really makes me stand out amongst my peers and the rest of society. I talk about it, I tweet about it and get myself a column in a national newspaper. In time, other people hear and start their ridiculous own hat collections.

Hedge funds and other institutional investors notice the new trend and growing market and as a consequence invest in the industry that makes and sells me my hats, and start hiring firms to lobby on the hat industry’s behalf to loosen laws and guidelines over hats, as well as challenge anyone who questions my hats. They also start the process of not giving me and my hats more rights, so much as taking away the rights and protections in law given to those without hats. The new hat industry notices that if they can get children in on the hat game early, they can ensure that have no choice but to be a hat customer for the rest of their lives, even if they want to stop collecting hats or worse, reversing their collection entirely, they physically can’t.

Over time, members of a local group of unaffiliated religious groups (including those with varying stances towards hats) as well as a national fashion society independent of one another start petitions against my hats.

In this thought experiment, I would think I would be curious as to why they are both coming at me. You know, instead of calling the fashion society in this experiment a bunch of fundamentalist witches in shill to “Big Vagina” who need killing or something else extreme.

Curiosity and empathy is, it seems, in short supply.

 

[Zenchick101]

I don’t think Reddit is a great place for women to be really. Over on Lipstick Alley, someone helpfully identified that out that on the lesbian’s and black women’s sub reddits, 11 of the 16 moderators were TIMs. The poster had gotten fed up of constantly being suspended or banned from the groups for being less than 100% supportive of the ladydique on display. It’s worth a Google. I had a look and learned a new word: transbian (bloke who thinks he’s a lesbian).

Also, TRAs seem pretty keen to accuse British Feminists of being funded by US fundamentalist churches and groups (if that’s the case, where’s my cheque?).

Despite it being utter garbage, let’s play along for a moment in a thought experiment:

If two ideologically opposing natural enemies join forces against your ideology, what would you do?

I mean, if I was really into hats for example. Like, to an absurd degree that really makes me stand out amongst my peers and the rest of society. I talk about it, I tweet about it and get myself a column in a national newspaper. In time, other people hear and start their ridiculous own hat collections.

Hedge funds and other institutional investors notice the new trend and growing market and as a consequence invest in the industry that makes and sells me my hats, and start hiring firms to lobby on the hat industry’s behalf to loosen laws and guidelines over hats, as well as challenge anyone who questions my hats. They also start the process of not giving me and my hats more rights, so much as taking away the rights and protections in law given to those without hats. The new hat industry notices that if they can get children in on the hat game early, they can ensure that have no choice but to be a hat customer for the rest of their lives, even if they want to stop collecting hats or worse, reversing their collection entirely, they physically can’t.

Over time, members of a local group of unaffiliated religious groups (including those with varying stances towards hats) as well as a national fashion society independent of one another start petitions against my hats.

In this thought experiment, I would think I would be curious as to why they are both coming at me. You know, instead of calling the fashion society in this experiment a bunch of fundamentalist witches in shill to “Big Vagina” who need killing or something else extreme.

Curiosity and empathy is, it seems, in short supply.

Perhaps it has to do with education and culture, at least in north america most are taught to have a very narrow north american centric world view in schools. And over there you're not taught to have a critical nuanced point of view, so all those years of school and conditioning amounts to many people having this perspective; Oppressed/minority = good guy, People with a different opinion = bad guy.

 

[emm]

ooo ok, it just goes to show how many real articles like this we see that I didn't even question that it might be satire!

welcome to 2020

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

On the communism thing, I have a few friends who basically see communism as a cure-all to the world's ills because they see all the world's ills as down to capitalism. I disagree here as I think the world's ills generally lie with humanity and whatever system you have, there's gonna be someone that that system isn't going to work for.

Plus, I'm a history graduate and I know those countries that tried to be communist were not ultimately successful. A society where there is no reward for inventiveness or extra work means there's no innovation and the economy stagnates. And you'll find that there's still a class system with haves and have nots but it's entirely political - basically, the only thing incentivised is climbing the political ladder. They also tend to become incredibly authoritarian in order to keep people from wanting to go capitalist.

On the other-hand unbridled capitalism results in mass poverty in which a tiny minority live lives of incredible wealth with more money than they can spend, while the majority of the population lives miserably in squalid conditions, with their food and water contaminated because the interests of the big businesses matter more than the health of the public.

I think the countries that get it right are the Scandinavian states which are capitalist but with very socialist policies of high taxation and excellent public services. But being anti-capitalist is much more cool than being in the middle ground.

I should also say, technically in a communist system, only people's needs should be provided - not people's wants. That sounds like a recipe for a dull as duck life. Like someone said above, I'm pretty sure my friends who like to go on about communism would not be happy about having their things seized or the number of holidays they can have reduced because they were deemed superflouous to their need.

 

[Narc ahoy]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting tit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the tit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

 

[Zenchick101]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting tit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the tit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

difference is if part of her ancestry turns out to be spanish she could claim that she wanted to get in touch with her roots or whatever.

 

[HockyRorror]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting tit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the tit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

Wonder which way the dice would have fallen if she had “came out” as a Spanish man?

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I've got someone on my Twitter feed this morning trying to appeal to young Kpop fans that she's seen saying they support radical feminism, linking to lists of "TERF dog whistles!!" and so on:

1. If they're into Kpop, most likely they've got interested in the current Korean feminist revival. You constantly talk about racism but you aren't Korean nor even East Asian; why do you think it's NOT racist for you to dictate to Korean women what feminism is or that they are to include men in it?

2. Examples of "dog whistles":
- all the memes, emojis, "in-jokes" etc. used by the "alt-right" to identify each other
- euphemisms like "pro-life" (anti-abortion) or "family values" (homophobic and believe women belong in the kitchen)

Not dog whistles:
- objective fact, such as defining women as adult human females
- saying things like "lesbian not queer", which means exactly what it says (in this case, that this person wants to be called a lesbian, not "queer.") Does it indicate she's probably gender critical? Yes. Is it a dog whistle? No. It's not supposed to be something that looks or sounds innocent to outsiders but is recognisable to the "in-group." It is what it says

 

[thatstupidcat]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting tit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the tit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

Please don’t deadname Hilaria Baldwin, it’s literal violence.

Hilaria is stunning and brave.

Hilaria is a beautiful person with a beautiful Majorcan soul born to the wrong geography. She was always Spanish, even before she identified as such. Once she started wearing Spanish clothes and acting Spanish, she was and is 100% biologically Spanish.

Check your privilege, you MERF (Majorcan Exclusionary Radical Feminist)!

 

[KINGAA]

So Hilaria/Hilary Baldwin, wife of Alec, is getting tit for pretending to be Spanish. She claimed to be born in Majorca, moved to the US aged 19, and speaks with an accent and pretended to not know the English for cucumber. Her five kids have Spanish names. She is in fact born, bred and raised in the USA, and her family have been American for many generations.

I feel a bit sorry for her; it's pitiful that she feels the need to do this. As far as I can tell, she's harmless. I hope she has only been lying to the public, and not her kids.

I don't see why pretending to be Spanish is such a huge problem, but pretending to be the opposite sex is not? Although I feel sorry for the tit she's getting (she shouldn't have lied but these kind of public lynchings are harsh), I always hope that people start to see the connection with transracial bullshit and transgender bullshit.

I feel sorry for her in a way that she felt she had to lie and create this whole story to be interesting or whatever.

I don’t however see the connection between being transgender and cultural appropriation of just lying about your whole life to sell yourself as a Latina for magazine deals etc.

The only connection she has to Spain was a few holidays as a child and her parents retiring there when she was 27. Her and her families Spanish text on social media doesn’t make sense, it’s all google translated.

 

[thatstupidcat]

I feel sorry for her in a way that she felt she had to lie and create this whole story to be interesting or whatever.

I don’t however see the connection between being transgender and cultural appropriation of just lying about your whole life to sell yourself as a Latina for magazine deals etc.

The only connection she has to Spain was a few holidays as a child and her parents retiring there when she was 27. Her and her families Spanish text on social media doesn’t make sense, it’s all google translated.

I 100% agree that there is a world of difference between transgenderism and cultural appropriation. As everyone knows: there are no differences of the physical, genetic and upbringing kind between the sexes and genders. I will never understand why the cisgendered uterus holders won’t just shut the hell up with constantly highlighting the parallels and equivalencies.

In this day and age, cultural appropriation is completely unacceptable. For example, the caucasian Rachel Dolezal stole opportunities away from African Americans by infiltrating black groups and rising to a position of power by lying and the liberal misuse of make up, hair styling and clothing.

Utterly unforgivable, except when a millionaire caucasian Bostonian does it. In which case, what choice did she have to try and raise her profile in Hollywood amongst all those racist Majorcans?

I think Alec Baldwin should be commended for not having a fetish for only Majorcan genitals and is open minded enough to consider those of an East Coast extraction. Bravo!

 

[emm]

I 100% agree that there is a world of difference between transgenderism and cultural appropriation. As everyone knows: there are no differences of the physical, genetic and upbringing kind between the sexes and genders. I will never understand why the cisgendered uterus holders won’t just shut the hell up with constantly highlighting the parallels and equivalencies.

In this day and age, cultural appropriation is completely unacceptable. For example, the caucasian Rachel Dolezal stole opportunities away from African Americans by infiltrating black groups and rising to a position of power by lying and the liberal misuse of make up, hair styling and clothing.

Utterly unforgivable, except when a millionaire caucasian Bostonian does it. In which case, what choice did she have to try and raise her profile in Hollywood amongst all those racist Majorcans?

I think Alec Baldwin should be commended for not having a fetish for only Majorcan genitals and is open minded enough to consider those of an East Coast extraction. Bravo!

I think the case of Rachel Dolezal was very different... she seemed to have a quit e messed up childhood and was basically clinging on to a different identitiy

 

[KINGAA]

I think the case of Rachel Dolezal was very different... she seemed to have a quit e messed up childhood and was basically clinging on to a different identitiy

And Hilary is doing the exact same thing. She is clinging onto a different identity to better herself, she’s even stated previously how being Hispanic meant she grew up being discriminated and even now people think she’s her kids Nanny because she’s Latina... She even said she moved to USA when she was 19???? It’s pure insanity, there is no difference to me, appropriation is just appropriation and it’s wrong!

 

[emm]

And Hilary is doing the exact same thing. She is clinging onto a different identity to better herself, she’s even stated previously how being Hispanic meant she grew up being discriminated and even now people think she’s her kids Nanny because she’s Latina... She even said she moved to USA when she was 19???? It’s pure insanity, there is no difference to me, appropriation is just appropriation and it’s wrong!

I am not totally clued up on up...but Hilary didn't really seem to have an awfull;y messed up childhood? If you read up up about Racehl she really seemed to be trying to creat another chilndhoold that her parents didn't give her

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I think the first paragraph in @thatstupidcat's post is sarcasm

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I feel sorry for her in a way that she felt she had to lie and create this whole story to be interesting or whatever.

I don’t however see the connection between being transgender and cultural appropriation of just lying about your whole life to sell yourself as a Latina for magazine deals etc.

The only connection she has to Spain was a few holidays as a child and her parents retiring there when she was 27. Her and her families Spanish text on social media doesn’t make sense, it’s all google translated.

There is a connection especially with the modern day version of trans where the definition has broadened to include cross dressers. A cross dresser can now call themselves trans and be seen as a woman in the eyes of the law. The new version of trans appropriates womanhood. I don't see why one is ok but the other isn't.

The best analogy I can think of is this: a trans person who accepts their biological reality but wants to live is a woman is akin to someone taking an interest in a culture, learning their language, customs, etc, but still not denying where they're from and not pretending they are Spanish inside because of 'feelings'.

Whereas someone who is appropriating will deny all reality, will pretend they are the exact same as people who are born Spanish, will scream 'bigot' at anyone who says otherwise.

To be clear, I have no issue with trans people who want to live a certain way but who are also open and honest about their reality. Those people are brave and to be applauded.

It's the ones who try to appropriate that cause harm

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Further to the above, we've seen trans identified people taking womens spots in prizes, awards, womens places in politics (the Green party has a trans identified person in a spot reserved for women) and so on. Now, if Alec Baldwins wife was on a 'Latina of the year' list, people would say it's wrong to take a spot away from a Latina woman and appropriation. So why is it ok for trans identified people to do the same to women? How can people *not* see the connection?

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I've been watching the netflix documentary on Rachel Dolezal. She's obviously got a lot of psychological problems from being abused and I think, when she started looking after the new black adoptees in their family, she saw black culture and community as a way out of her abusive environment.

It was interesting viewing the anger that the black women felt about it - much of what they were saying was very similar to what 'terfs'. Someone wondered if Rachel had gotten these high profile positions, and had been listened to more on activism, due to unconscious bias. Did people prefer the message when it came from someone with lighter skin and white features? They felt she used her privilege as white person to take the space that should have been a platform for the voice of a black woman.

On another note, has anyone ever come across the subreddit egg_irl? Basically, they seem to think that any amount of gender non-conforming = being fully trans and that if you still think you're not then you are in denial and simply an egg 'waiting to crack.' That's problematic enough, but the mtf memes seem to mostly be about becoming an anime girl. They want to wear sailor or maid uniforms and thigh high socks, be patted on the head and be called 'good girls'. When discussing wearing women's clothing some of them report sexual arousal. It all just sounds like fetish to me.

 

[CheshireLove]

The ‘Hilaria’ Baldwin thing is just bizarre. How on earth did they manage to keep it buried for so long? Pretending to be Spanish is not as bad as Rachel Dolezal pretending to be black but along the same lines. She’s obviously profited from pretending she is Spanish and has made this part of her branding. What a strange and deluded woman.

I can see the similarities with the trans movement. I’m fed up with men who say they are women taking women’s awards and prizes. It’s an appropriation.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

It is a fetish and honestly these people are mentally ill. Affirmation and validation has only caused great harm.

This is the co-chair of the Green Party Women. Would you feel comfortable having this person represent you? I wouldn't.

It is normal for women who are TTC to feel envy of other mothers but I'm sorry, it's not normal for men. Call me a transphobe, call me a TERF but this is a mental illness.