Gender Discussions #4

[Apple In My Pie]

This isn’t technically gender related, to the current discussion, but I had to share. On Twitter last night there was a big buzz about a black American transgender woman, Sai, who had supposedly been kidnapped. A supposed friend posted a video of Sai in a cupboard, hysterical, saying she had been kidnapped, descriptions of her kidnapper. A massive long thread about this TW pleading to help find her - all with a go fund me link attached to the bottom for donations. All the updates about her kidnapping were coming via this friend. People went to the police after a few hours of no responses... and then the friend just said ‘oh she’s safe now’. I smelled a rat, I commented saying not to be gullible bearing in mind 1. this particular TW had scammed people out of $25000 once already through gofundme - and 2. This current go fund me had racked up $50000 and people were giving their last $10 all so this person ‘could escape and transition’... omg the abuse I got. ‘You don’t know anything‘, ‘you keep your mouth shut, you’re white, your opinion doesn’t matter’, ‘you’re cisgender, don’t speak’ ‘you‘re a transphobe, you only disbelieved because this woman is trans’, on and on and on... it came out that the TW had scammed everyone and was hiding in a cupboard in her house to post the videos. Her friend (who had created the initial thread asking for help) said she didn’t realise. I don’t believe that, I think she was in on it, but no proof.

But even afterwards - people were sitting there calling this person a victim! After she’d scammed everyone! And apparently being wary of such things makes me transphobic. Not because it’s online and the creator of the thread was waving the money pot immediately after? Okay.

 

[IndominusRex]

I can't wrap my head around the concept of carrying and birthing a baby not making you dysphoric but hearing the word breast triggering you.

 

[Oohthedrama]

Congratulations! You have “peak transed”. We’ve all been there.

And this is a thread full of non-bigoted people with non-hateful opinions, we just care about the rights of women. I’m glad you’ve decided not to avoid it anymore.

I genuinely held off pressing “post reply” thinking I’d get reported for hate speech or being and “angry non inclusive cis”..... and I don’t even know what I’m doing anymore

we’re back to women staying in the kitchen staying quite, unless you weren’t a woman from birth, then you can speak because you’re allowed to be outraged, I don’t want to offend anyone but if you say one thing “wrong” your cancelled

chest feeding is just a level of WTF nobody can defend.

 

[emmer_moans]

It is more and more apparent to me that in corporate workplaces we are having to allow men into toilets etc, and watch our tongues over the self-ID thing, however when it comes to closing the gender pay gap it’s all tumbleweeds and whistling wind noises...

 

[jewelkitty]

Just watched the Philosophy Tube coming out video and didn't like the way they dismissed natal female feminism as 'tea with the queen' or 'boss babe seminars'. 1) I'm anti-monarchy. 2) MLM's use 'boss babe' and the illusion of achieving female independence to trap and take advantage of women who, because of their sex and how society treats them because of their sex, are desperate for work they can do from home, flexibly alongside child care.

Thorn comes out as seeing their own 'feminism' as superior to the feminism of natal born women. Like I watch it and feel it comes across that they know nothing about the experience of natal women and the challenges we face at all.

Honestly, I can't think of one single thing biological women have in common with transwomen. Not one. Makes absolutely no sense for us to be lumped into the same group.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

It's a ridiculous comparison. Gay people fought for their own rights and for equality, they didn't want anything taken away from people, in the way trans people do

 

[2020two]

Stop men 2k21

He's welcome to experience 24 hours of what pregnancy was like for me. 6 weeks on bed rest in a hospital ward being kicked in the spine by 4 different legs (twins), midwives shoving their hands up my vagina every sodding day followed by an emergency C section. I mean lol what a hoot! let's all pretend to be pregnant!

Why did HE think this was a good idea or in any way appropriate? There are real women out there who would do anything to be pregnant. There are women still dying during childbirth. If a female influencer pretended to be pregnant people would go mad.

 

[judgejohndeed]

This is really scary tbh, I genuinely don't understand how men modelling products for use by women is at all progressive. Like this isn't even normal day to day clothes that transwomen will also wear...only bio women and trans men would need a bra like that? Interesting they didn't use a trans man isn't it? Almost like there's some misogyny going on yet again...

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

A man disguised himself as a woman and sexually assaulted a teenage girl. Who’d have thought it, a man wearing woman as a costume for his own gain? Could it be that us ‘nasty terfs’ have a point and that throwing away the legal protections that women as a class have as a result of our biological sex in favour of ‘gender identity’ is a terrible idea?

 

[jewelkitty]

How is a TW modelling a nursing bra anything but a fetish??

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

Naomi Wu, a Chinese tech influencer who makes videos in English is known for wearing very "provocative" clothes. She is a lesbian and doesn't dress this way to attract men; she says it is part of the expression of her "gender identity" and she doesn't feel feminine or good about herself in any other style of dress. She's a real woman, but when she posted about being sexually harassed by men for the way she dresses, a transwoman commented with "we trans people understand, we don't have a choice in how we express ourselves, I consider you an honourary transwoman!" I don't think I've ever rolled my eyes so hard

 

[Cunderthunt]

I don’t know your gender but would you like it if you were referred to as the opposite? In a meeting day, if someone introduced you as Mr Smith when you identify as being a woman for example?

I don't identify as a woman, I am one. I'm not unreasonable enough to demand that everyone else invert reality, so I don't know how it feels to be so attached to opposite-sex pronouns.

 

[Evabee]

This disgusts me, it feels so dystopian and clinical. If a trans person is FTM why would they want to get pregnant, I can’t imagine many of them do. So why are we changing the rules to accommodate a tiny minority?!

it’s not “human milk” or “birth givers milk” it’s breast milk, it comes out of my fing breasts

 

[judgejohndeed]

Anyway my friend said that's kind of offensive for you to say lesbians cant be he/him

The face I just pulled reading this...
Lesbians are women who like women. It makes no sense for he/hims to be lesbians. Interestingly the only way I can see this working is if it is conceded that trans men are women - then, those trans men who like women are lesbians.
The ‘offensive’ thing here is how stupid that statement is tbh.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Eddie must be pretty pleased with himself for coming out as trans. What a great way to get attention for doing nothing

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This is very sad and infuriating at the same time

 

[Falkor]

I have just remembered it was even worse than this - she was also told "but what if you divorce and a future relationship wants children" I think she reported the doctor

I had exactly the same thing (my reply was 'If he wanted children then he's not the right person for me') and my GP told me I'd have to make an appointment to see him together with my husband if I wanted a referral. It took me 5 years, 2 GPs, 2 gynaecologists and they even made me see a psychiatrist for two sessions, who was so annoyed that his attempt to hypnotise me failed that he sat on my notes for a year and refused to write back to the gynaecologists. I had to write some icily polite letters to the Primary Care Trust and threaten to get my MP involved before I finally got my tubes tied at 28. I doubt very much they'd do it at all these days, I'd have had to go private. Now 45 and it still remains one of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[Aquamarina]

I’m straight, but I really do feel for lesbians having to put up with this nonsense. And then to also be told that they’re being ‘hateful’ and ‘transphobic’ for having genital preferences must be infuriating. Most of these ‘transbians’ are autogynephilic fetishists who are clearly just mentally ill heterosexual men.

 

[CosmicCreepers]

Sorry to post about personal experience again, but it is regarding giving people hormones under the age of 16. My non binary friend retweeted a thread about how its messed up the NHS refuse to give hormones to people under 16, and there should not be an age limit at all.

For me, when I was 13/14 I wanted to be a boy - that feeling lasted for a few months and I even tried to dress more masculine. I was very confused and soon realised I was not trans but just not accepting of the fact I was a lesbian. I thought if I were a boy, I'd have a much easier life being a straight guy than a gay woman (due to discrimination).

If my parents had taken me to the doctor in those short months and I was put onto hormones, I cannot imagine the amount of mental and emotional damage it would have done to me, at such a young age. I'm glad my parents just let me go through that phase and let it pass, they left me alone with it and told me everything will be okay, it's normal to feel that way for a bit.

I know there are trans people who feel that they are trans from a young age, and I have no problem with the person using a different name/pronoun and discovering it for themselves. They should never ever be told "right okay, you're a boy who wants to wear princess dresses, we are going to take you to the doctors and get you on estrogen" unless that child is obviously emotionally distressed as being called he/she and boy/girl then yes take them to be assessed and see what's going on.

But hormones should only be given to someone who is 16 and over, and has gone through the correct assessments.

 

[Cunderthunt]

Anyone else here not give a shit about pronouns?

Pronouns are for other people’s convenience. They're not for the person being talked about, and they have nothing to do with respect. They don’t exist for the subject’s own validation.

It’s nobody’s business what other people think, and forcing others to validate your fantasy self-image is intrusive and demanding. Pronoun demands are like an honorific.

Choosing your own pronouns is a privilege, not a right. I only kowtow to them when I have to avoid trouble.