Notice
Thread ordered by most liked posts - View normal thread.

DCICassieStuart

VIP Member
Kerry Needham was treated so badly by the police, both in the UK and Greece.

She did NOTHING wrong. She went to work leaving her small child in the care of her parents, unlike the McCanns who went out for dinner and drinks leaving three small children alone in an apartment in a foreign country.

It's horrendously unfair that Ben Needham's case didn't get the same amount of money spent on it as Madeline McCann's.

Money clearly talks. I've said it on here before, but if the McCanns had been a couple on benefits from sink estate and had gone out for the night leaving three small children home alone only for one to disappear, then their other children would have been taken from them immediately and put into care.

Guess it's different when it's a pair of well to do doctors :mad:
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 66

sleepflowers

VIP Member
I would be really surprised if Andrew was groomed online as he went missing in 2007, which was before we were using the internet in the way we are now. There was no evidence to suggest he was and he didn’t even have an email address. If he was groomed I think it would more likely to do with the camp he went on in the summer before he went missing. Either way, I really hope his family (and we!) get some answers soon from these men who have been arrested.
I am around Andrew's age (currently 29) and he sounds similar to how I was in 2007, very 'online'. Social media didn't really exist but I was often talking to strangers online in 2007, through forums or MSN Messenger, blogs etc, based around my interests. I never met up with any of them because I was a kid and too scared to travel to meet any of them, so I think the grooming thing is very possible and he went to London thinking he was meeting an online friend.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 44

DCICassieStuart

VIP Member
Wow, shocked to see a move on Andrew Gosden's case after such a long time. I hope his family can finally get some answers.

My own gut feeling has always been that Andrew went to London that day to meet up with someone that he had been speaking to online, and unfortunately the person he met didn't have good intentions :(
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 37

Lillykidd

New member
Has anyone seen the doc on the Watts murders on Netflix? That poor, poor family. It's absolutely heartbreaking seeing video clips of those innocent little girls. Chris Watts is pure evil.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 36
Anybody else patiently waiting for a update on the arrests of the man arrested in connection with Andrew gosden, my eyes nearly jumped out my head when I read that headline I’ve always wished for a good outcome for Andrew
 
  • Like
Reactions: 35

rachelpixiedust

Active member
I travelled into Manchester yesterday to register our baby's birth ... found it sad & upsetting seeing Andrew Gosden and Lee Boxell's photos on the missing children posters at the tram stops. As the mother of 3 children, 2 of which are boys, I find this so upsetting. I hope their families find peace one day. I find both cases baffling. How can there be no evidence at all as to where they are?
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 32

calmyourritas

VIP Member
I am around Andrew's age (currently 29) and he sounds similar to how I was in 2007, very 'online'. Social media didn't really exist but I was often talking to strangers online in 2007, through forums or MSN Messenger, blogs etc, based around my interests. I never met up with any of them because I was a kid and too scared to travel to meet any of them, so I think the grooming thing is very possible and he went to London thinking he was meeting an online friend.
Definitely. I was 14 years old in 2007 chatting to random strangers (God knows who) every night on Habbo Hotel, MySpace, etc 🥴🥴
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 31

Tots

VIP Member
I definitely think Andrew appeared in photos they found in connection with these men. I hope with every ounce of my being that it leads to him being found, even if it’s his resting place so that the family can have the closure they so desperately must yearn for
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 30

Be More Pacific

VIP Member
Really? I never knew that.
I know Charlene was classed as vulnerable but not the rest. 😕
This is an article from Ths Times written in November 2013 - it's now paywalled so I've transcribed it.

Too little cared for and too little mourned

"There goes Charlene Downes, ten years ago today, skipping towards the bright lights of Blackpool. Never to be seen again.

It was late autumn, the final night of the season. During the evening, the 14-year-old was spotted in a bar at the seaside resort’s North Pier. Someone bought her a vodka and Coke. She left with a young friend. They headed for a dark, waste-strewn passageway lined on each side by the rear entrances to several takeaway food premises.

This was “Paki Alley”, where chips and alcohol were in plentiful supply for children smart enough to know that one good turn deserved another. Arcades and kebab shops were a cheap escape from teenage boredom but on that particular night, November 1, 2003, a crime took place which meant that Charlene never came home.

A decade on and the unsolved murder has barely registered with the mainstream public. By contrast, Britain’s far-right parties have taken such an interest in the Downes case that banners demanding “Justice for Charlene” were raised on football terraces by sections of hardcore fans.

Their focus was triggered by a 2007 criminal trial at which it was alleged that the child was killed by a Jordanian kebab-shop owner who later disposed of her body with the help of his Iranian business partner. No remains were discovered.

Lacking concrete proof of murder, the prosecution was built on hearsay evidence from an unreliable witness and on a police officer’s transcription of low-quality recordings from bugs placed in the flat and car of one of the suspects. Its accuracy was repeatedly challenged by the defence.

On the eve of a scheduled 2008 retrial, after the first hearing led to a hung jury, the case collapsed. Both defendants were acquitted. The far-right’s conspiracy theory — dark-skinned men getting away with the rape and murder of a white girl — gained strength in 2011 when it emerged that an unpublished police report identified more than 60 girls who were groomed for sex by Asian workers at a cluster of takeaways.

Today, Charlene’s disappearance will be marked by a memorial service in the town, organised by the British National Party. Tomorrow, its supporters will stage a demonstration against “Muslim grooming gangs”. Leading the tributes will be her parents, Robert and Karen Downes. They are cherished icons of the nationalist movement. But they sit on a hollow throne.

The truth, hidden until now, is that so many men of all creeds and colours were suspected of sexual offences against Charlene that when she first went missing the police did not know which way to turn. One of the trails led directly inside the Downes family home. Confidential witness statements, social services records and internal police reports reveal that the child protection authorities first became concerned about Charlene’s home environment in 1989, the year she was born.

Then, the family were living in the West Midlands. Police and social services launched a joint investigation because a convicted rapist, jailed three times for buggery and indecent assaults on two young girls, was a regular visitor to the house and was allowed unsupervised access to a child.

Mr Downes, now 52, was “strongly advised” by social services not to allow the man inside his home but the visits were suspected to have continued. A witness told the authorities she saw the rapist “fondling [a child] in the house and that the parents were present”. They deny that any such incident happened.

In 1998, when Charlene was 9, she and another girl alleged that they were being sexually abused by a man “trusted by Mr and Mrs Downes to take them to school”. He was charged with rape but the case collapsed when the other girl failed to give evidence.

Charlene’s parents told The Times that the man seemed trustworthy because “he had a girlfriend”. They rejected a police officer’s report that they “had some knowledge of the abuse but failed to act”.

The family moved to Blackpool in 1999 after Walsall social services threatened to prosecute the parents for wilful neglect and to have the children taken into care. In the North West, a succession of men were introduced to the family after meeting Mr Downes in local pubs. Some stayed overnight or even longer.

They included a man in his 50s who described Charlene, then 13, as his girlfriend, and a 40-year-old who later admitted to police that he paid her to carry out a sex act. Three days after Charlene vanished, a 34-year-old man, staying with the Downes family while on bail, was jailed for crimes that included indecent assaults on three young girls. He admitted indecently touching the missing child.

An account of life inside the Downes home came from an environmental health officer, visiting one morning on council business, who walked into a downstairs room to find Charlene, then 12, lying on a bed in a “skimpy” nightgown. Lying alongside her was a man in his 60s. The girl jumped up and “started to scoop a number of pound coins off the bed”. The man, “shaken and trembling”, began “pulling his trouser zip up and fastening his belt”.

In a witness statement, the council employee described his shock at “the situation I had stumbled into”. He said Charlene was quick to tell him that “it’s OK — he’s my uncle”. Mr Downes then entered the room, apparently unconcerned, and explained that the man was “a family friend”. The incident was reported to social services but “it was decided not to pursue the matter further due to lack of evidence, lack of co-operation from the family and no complaint from Charlene”.

Her parents described it as a misunderstanding. Mrs Downes blamed the council worker for being too “nosey”. They said that the man on the bed with Charlene was “a lovely, nice old man” who had merely been adjusting his trousers. Mr Downes said he did not know, at the time, that any of the men he brought home had a sexual interest in children.

The couple did not comment on a hospital doctor’s report from June 2000, when Charlene was 11, warning of suspected sexual abuse, nor on the 13 visits she made to an NHS walk-in centre over a 12-month period in 2002-03, when she regularly sought help for sexual health problems.

Her mother insisted this week that her husband always sought to protect their daughter. She described the documents seen by this newspaper as “widely exaggerated and untrue”.

This is the mother of a child who apparently made regular visits, aged 11, to a Salvation Army soup kitchen and was seen dancing for men outside a pub, aged 12. Her parents explained that she enjoyed going “to church” and often danced to “music that she liked”. It was against this background that Charlene began swapping sexual favours, during the final months of her life, with Asian and Arab takeaway workers.

The Times understands that, three months before she vanished, she was one of two girls driven by Asian men from Blackpool to a lay-by in Blackburn. There, at midnight, she walked down an alley with one of the men, returning an hour later. Back in Blackpool, she was handed an envelope. Her friend asked what was inside and was told it was “what I got for what I did in Blackburn”.

Another Asian man is known to have taken her to Manchester in an old BMW less than a week before she disappeared. Neither incident was connected to the two men who stood trial over her murder.

It can also be revealed that a week before she went missing, a white man with the “motive and opportunity to murder Charlene” gave her £40. He met her again on her final night. A police report described him as a “compulsive, perverted paedophile” living in “a squalid flat knee-deep in pornographic material of all types including those featuring young children”.

Lancashire Constabulary today announces a new investigation, pledging “an open mind” about the murder. Its inquiry will not be short of suspects. Some are white; some are not.

Evidence shows that Charlene Downes was failed throughout her life. Until now, she has also been failed in death. The reports suggest that she was let down by her parents, by care professionals, by dozens of sex abusers, by her killers and by a police force that mismanaged a murder inquiry.

Today, the BNP distorts her story to sow seeds of divisive malevolence. Too little cared for, too little mourned. She deserves better."
 
  • Sad
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: 30

candyland_

VIP Member
I think if Andrew could sneakily skip school and withdraw money then he could talk to people his parents had no idea about.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 30

Very traditional

VIP Member
Does anyone have any thoughts on the Gareth Williams case? It’s dubbed “The Spy in a bag murder” and there’s a lot of talk of Russian spies. I vaguely remembered it but listened to the case on “They walk among us” podcast today and it fascinated me so I’ve been doing some reading on it this evening
 
  • Like
Reactions: 28

Comewhinewithme

VIP Member
Not sure if this fits the title as it's up in the air as to whether it's a murder or not.
Kirsty Maxwell?
The Scottish girl that went on a hen to Benidorm and ended up dead, they arrested 5 men that had let Kirsty into their room. They said she was erratic and confused, one minute was behaving odd, next jumped to her death. Lots of strange things about the case including the Spanish police destroying evidence and general crap approach to the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 26

redball00n

VIP Member
The Dardeen Family Murders is one of the worst cases I’ve ever heard of. The mother and the son were found dead in their home, the pregnant mother had been beaten so badly she’d gone into labour, and the killer beat the newborn to death. Then the father was found in a field with his genitals multilated. Horrible case and still unsolved.
 
  • Wow
  • Sad
  • Like
Reactions: 26

Honeytheonions

Chatty Member
That poor little boy still buried somewhere up on the moors, by sickos Brady and Hindley. I hope one day they find him and can lay him to rest. His poor Mother went to her grave not knowing where he is.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 26

Raker

VIP Member
No, that all seems reasonable — who amongst us hasn’t asphyxiated themselves folding themselves up and zipping themselves from a folded position into a hold-all bag? 😁

Agree, all very strange, but the fact that the above was given as a reason and we were all supposed to just accept it is just as bizarre. Would love to know the background...
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 26

rebremm99

Chatty Member
I am beyond shocked to read the news about Andrew Gosden today. Trafficking and kidnap is such an awful outcome and my thoughts are with his family today, to think how they must be feeling is gut wrenching.

My theory is that he was groomed online and went to London to meet up with whoever he was talking to online. Maybe the PSP had something to do with it as he never took the charger and a newer PSP model was being launched in the UK the same day. Just speculation on my part.
Whatever happened though I am hoping that this amounts to something and he is either found, or his family finally get closure after all of these years.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 25
Someone on Reddit looked through Flickr of pictures of the day Andrew went missing in London, and found a photo of what looks like Andrew with an old man. I'll post the link in a spoiler tag:

I'm usually skeptical of Andrew lookalikes appearing, but that does look like him I reckon.

I'd love to find out what happened to him! I feel so sad when I see pictures of him.
I definitely think he intended to return home. Bless him.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Wow
Reactions: 24

squiffle

Active member
I mentioned earlier that I would be surprised about the grooming online and said we weren’t using the internet then like we were now - and based on your comments I have remembered that I was also using chat rooms all the time from 2003 and even went to meet complete strangers then! So I feel silly for saying that now. Sorry.

However I seem to remember his dad saying there was no evidence of him really even using the internet, he had no email address and as we know, he wasn’t using a mobile at the time.

Of course none of us know. But I wanted to correct myself because my comment was silly. Of course we were using chat rooms by 2007.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 24

Be More Pacific

VIP Member
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Wow
Reactions: 24