Gender Discussion #28

[Cassandra333]

I think I've already made it clear but I'm going to say it one more time, just in case. I do not support any part of trans ideology, none of it. I think it's dangerous and abusive and it's a religious belief not a scientific theory.

To the person who says their cousin knew at 3. No, your cousin didn't. Your cousin had stereotypical sexist beliefs forced on them. Which is disgusting. Your cousin sounds like they were groomed to be trans. So who did the grooming? Which of the parents is desperate for attention? Have you looked at Munchausens by Proxy? Have you looked at homophobia in that part of your family? What these parents did is child abuse.

I have compassion for those people who are suffering from gender dysphoria. They have a devastating mental illness. You don't treat mental illness with surgery and hormones. There people should be kept far away from Trans Ideology. It can only injure them and it will hurt them in ways that are not reversible. Children should definitely not be exposed to this toxic, non scientific ideology.

Spoiler: Mental illness

I have mental illness. I'm bipolar and agoraphobic. I have suicide ideation. Nobody should encourage me in any of those things. When I get manic, I think I can run the world. Should that mean that people let me? Of course not. It means my husband and daughter have to talk me down and back into sanity. Same with eating disorders. No one tells an anorexic that they should be on a strict diet and lose weight every week. It would be immoral and cruel.

I've done a lot of childminding over the years and I've never met a little boy who didn't want to wear the princess dress and the feather boa out of the dressing up box. They love it, all the bright colours and the sparkly plastic jewelry and the crowns and tiaras. What's not to love? It doesn't mean that those boys are girls unless you believe in sexist stereotypes.

Trans Ideology is the Pied Piper when it comes to children. If we let them follow along we will lose them. We'll never see the real child again.
For handmaidens and woke bro's, trans ideology is the Emporers New Clothes. They can't see what's going on because they're looking at the sparkly clothes. These people are shallow with no true depth of intelligence or understanding.

I will never support trans ideology but that doesn't mean I'm transphobic. It means I have critical thinking and an understanding of science. Besides which, everything is transphobic now..single sex attraction, not using pronouns, having a brain. So fuck the people who call me transphobic. I'm proud to be a terf!

 

[weeweegie]

Being the mum to a boy who used to love princess dresses when he was 3, I would let him and loved seeing the joy on his wee face swishing the dress about and pretending he was Elsa (who wouldn’t want to have cool ice powers??). I would tell him how cool she was as I wanted him to know women can be strong, fierce and cool. I bought him the frozen dolls he wanted at Christmas. Not once did I ask him if he felt like a girl or a boy. When other kids would comment (usually little girls who would say that’s for girls!!) I would say to him there’s no such thing as girls toys and boys toys. Anyone can like anything they like. I drummed it into him so much that I heard him fiercely repeat this to kids who dared tell him what he was doing was ‘girly’.

He’s 10 now and still loves frozen but no longer wants to wear the dresses. He loves all sorts of things, mainly science and gaming. He’s a boy with a whole host of interests.

My point is when he was 3 years old the message in the media and general consensus with parents in my circle was kids can like anything they want, we need to smash gender stereotypes! And now? Oh your boy likes dresses and sparkly things (side eye) he miiiiiight ‘really’ be a girl inside. WTAF.

I realise the poster was saying her nephew is now 18 so it surprises me they were ‘affirmed’ so young back then but it is batshit. There is no secret gender hidden inside us! But what we need to do is WIDEN the scope of what it is to be a boy/girl. Instead of thinking they are literally the opposite sex. I honestly despair

 

[nothanksbabes]

Marilyn, of 80s gender-bending, friend of Boy George fame, is going full TERF and as a gay man who paved the way for these fuckwits, he's bang on.

 

[maytoseptember]

Bette Midler is a TERF

 

[GladiatorReady]

Bette hasn’t backed down yet

Macy isn't either!

 

[exhausted_mother]

Watching BBC lunch news I missed the start of the story but it was about transgender athletes in cycling. Some dude from a charity called Pride Out talking about the discrimination of not allowing transgender women to compete in women events and saying people should ‘compete in whichever category they identify’

makes my blood BOIL. Trans men never want to compete in male events, why? Because someone born female can’t identify out of the disadvantage it would give them against men. But the reverse doesn’t seem to dissuade men from becoming Emily and competing in womens events. Make a 3rd category!

 

[PastryPolly]

Seems a bit one sided here though.

Well, pretty much everywhere else online (looking at you, twitter) is an echo chamber of men (and bizarrely, some women) screaming women down and calling us terfs, threatening to rape us, get us fired from our jobs, get us cancelled, kill us, all because we have the temerity to call a man a man and a woman a woman and asserting that no amount of surgery or bullshit pronouns will change that.
It's in our interest to protect our spaces and protect our rights, surely that makes sense?
God forbid that you find it "one sided" in this forum, if that's the worst thing you can possibly say about the discourse here, compared to what women have to endure elsewhere for having a different opinion then that's a OK
I find it heartening that there's a community here of women (and men!) that can talk freely about the misogynistic trans agenda - for instance, I find it strange that so many "trans women" seem to have such a hatred of women, I wonder why that is?
TRAs display the same traits as any other men that are dangerous to women - verbal abuse and insults, threats of violence and intimidation tactics that women have always had to put up with to try to shut us up.
Women don't threaten to rape and kill people for not agreeing with them... is this the "other side" that you wish to see more of here?
Because "the other side" of the debate, to me, is we all have to blindly accept what we know simply isn't true and bullying people into complying with this utter nonsense. JMO

 

[nothanksbabes]

I'm adopted. My family are lovely, I was treated the same as my sister who is my parents' biological daughter. It has left me with some issues though, and I know a lot of adoptees feel the same.

It's a difficult thing to talk about because you feel the need to be constantly grateful, and that's a feeling that's spread into the rest of my life - feeling grateful that anyone paid me attention or was nice to me or whatever, because if your own mother doesn't want you then why the fuck would anyone else? I've tolerated some bad relationships as a result.

Adoption is necessary in some cases, and I was a million times better off than I would have been with my terrible mother (who I had very occasional contact with). My sister is a foster carer and seeing some of the children she cares for, I was very, very lucky. But kids aren't kittens, you can't just take them away from their primary attachment figure and expect everything to be perfect.

Anyway, I'm waffling, but this is why I'm absolutely against surrogacy and manufacturing scenarios where babies will be removed from their mothers. In situations where children in care need a home though, it's the best outcome in a situation that's not ideal.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Good point ! No I think this topic is great to have but the majority seem to be against trans people existing - not gonna get into that, your views are your own business.

I guess I'm wondering how you all ended up with these views ? Having a trans cousin and close friends who are gay I grew up knowing about everythingg. Did none of you have trans friends or anything ?

It is deffo much more common now. My aunt who is in endocrinology told me over 34% of her patients regret or don't go ahead with the physical side which is LOT.

This "against trans people existing" thing, what does it mean? Can you elaborate?

I started going to gay clubs at 16 (I'm 36 now). Spent my entire 20s in Manchester's gay village (as in, lived and socialised there), my closest friends are gay men who came out in the 90s and early 2000s. I had a 7 year lesbian relationship and have been to more Prides than I can remember. My favourite place to go out was Napoleon's, which was (is?) one of the more popular venues for trans women, although there was more differentiation between transgender/transsexual/transvestite/cross dressers then. First encounter was when I was about 8 when family holiday was spent in a hotel run by a couple of drag queens. Have met many, many trans people in my life as a result of the circles I move in. One of my closest friend just paid for a mutual friend's sex reassignment surgery. We probably wouldn't be friends if I was some evil woman who didn't want trans people to exist (a bloody ludicrous claim).

I've also spent the last 20 years reading feminist literature.

I think gender non conformity is great, I just don't think there's any magic that makes a man a woman just because he says. He's free to live and dress how he likes as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't change reality. My only concern is that women have access to single sex spaces.

The fact you think we "don't understand" seems like sheer arrogance on your part, although you do seem very young so perhaps it's that.

 

[Cack Conroe]

I don’t care about hurt feelings, I care about women and girls being attacked. Transwomen have male pattern criminality, male strength and (if not removed) male reproductive organs. They are ever bit as dangerous as ordinary men. Just like ordinary men, most are not dangerous, but a substantial minority are, and there is no way of telling the difference between safe and dangerous men.

No amount of whining about “transphobia” will negate the risk of biological males having unfettered access to females.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Ru is totally a Terf/Tehm (Trans Exclusionary Homosexual Male), he just loves money more than his morals.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

I don’t follow drag race at all, I’m interested if it’s been noticed by the TRAs that ru paul isn’t a fan?

He's had flak from the TRA's for using some language historically that they saw as being t-phobic (there used to be a section called 'you're got she-male'). He's capitulated and the show is now heavy of the T proselytizing but I'm pretty sure he believes exactly 0% of it.

I personally find it depressing watching gay men lose their pride and go into a closet made of gender.

For people I'd love to see go #TeamTerf, Emma Thompson would be good but she's been pro-TRA in the past.

Also please enjoy this burn:

 

[maytoseptember]

Macy Gray is also a TERF I’m loving these women who no longer GAF.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Hi KillarneyChick . I noticed your post about this thread on Roe v Wade thread;
"I came across the gender discussion thread on here tonight. Cant believe it's allowed on here, the transphobic comments are horrific and it's all very one sided ? But I suppose it's a forum"

Tattlers on the Gender thread are always keen to have an intelligent debate, and we enjoyed your posts earlier in the thread (starting on page 10)
You are welcome back here anytime

Laughable really . "I can't believe people are allowed to believe something different to me!"

The mad thing is, I've spent my entire life voting for political parties who are on the side of transgender people. I've been in a fight defending a young TiM (or a very effeminate lad) from a load of bullying dickheads in a takeaway after a night out. Spent twenty years mostly in the company of LGBT people. I wish transgender people no ill... I simply believe that men can't be women, however strongly they feel about it, and women have a right to single sex spaces. And these people think that view is so horrifying "it shouldn't be allowed"... but somehow we're the fascist bigots.

Free speech and thought isn't just for people you agree with is it. And honestly this thread is one of the more pleasant and respectful on Tattle .

They can never answer how you define being trans without a circular definition or reliance of regressive stereotypes, they can never tell me how many women raped on NHS wards they think are OK as collateral damage for self-ID, they can never justify why they are more horrified by misgendering a rapist than they are attributing a soley male crime to a woman (and revictimising his victim in the process). They can never answer why my participation in a transgender person's identity is required. They bully their transsexual elders who exist in reality and harass traumatised detransitioners. They have no logical answers to the simplest of questions, which is why they never stick around. They're ridiculous and vapid.

Love to my fellow TERFs anyway. Female solidatiry is bloody fantastic .

 

[maytoseptember]

Has anyone seen this shitshow? I thought it was a joke. It isn’t.

I should have known - the “trans girl” rite of passage, a selfie in a ladies bathroom.

The FAWNING though:

I LOVE your hideous outfit! Please give me fashion tips, hee hee

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

Macy isn't either!

That last line about ‘I don’t know what it means to be a trans woman, but that goes both ways’ absolutely nails it.

 

[Glortard]

Do any of you work in medicine ?

Yes I am a brain surgeon

To address your other points - no one in this thread have ever said trans people should not exist, no one in the wider movements like woman's rights such as for woman Scotland have ever said this. I would challenge you to provide a single quote from a woman's right spokeperson/twitter person/organistation that backs this up. I know you will not as you will ignore any post that asks you a question just as you have done on numerous occasions.

Here are some of the things woman do want (woman - adult human female not those born a male)
- they don't want males like Lia Thomas getting naked in their changing rooms flashing their dick before ripping the arse out of female records because they are male
- they do not want to be incarcerated in a womans prison and have a self ID'd male with Karen White rape them
- they do not want to be in a hospital on a female only ward, be raped and then have the NHS trust lie and state there where no men so a rape could not have happened until CCTV unravels their lies

In essence they want places where they are safe...toilets, changing rooms, woman's refuges, rape crisis centres, hospital wards
They want their hard work to mean something when it comes to the likes of sport, business, academia.....they do not want to give this up to males

I have these views as I see the harm to woman but more importantly as a father of a teenage girl I see the absolute carnage this cult is causing on todays youth.

Lastly your aunt is a figment of your imagination as uncle google could easily have told you that close to 90% and rising of trans DO NOT go ahead with the physical side. Given that Ireland has a waiting list in excess of 5 years very few people have even went through the process

 

[bcfc999]

The transphobia here is shocking. My cousin is trans. Known since she was a toddler. Started therapy at 3. Started physical treatment at 18. Tough being 6'2. Never harmed a soul but hundreds hurt her growing up with comments like this.

Okay so how does a three year old know "what a girl feels like" and "what a boy feels like"? How can a three year old have a concept of being "born in the wrong body"? Because this just sounds like your family had a boy who didn't conform to your stereotypes and went "nope, must be a girl."

 

[Vanelope]

It really annoys me when they try to equate it with racism. Well it all really annoys me.
If they want to do that. See Rachel Dolezal. She changed her appearance in order to pass as a Black woman. She took a position of authority in a Black space. When discovered, Black people said - nope, that’s offensive, unbelievable, unacceptable and impossible. She was condemned. Her intentions may not have been harmful but she caused harm.
Man changes appearance to pass as a woman (but fails), takes a position of authority in a woman’s space (happening more and more). But now some women are welcoming and saying, ‘you’re a better woman than I am!’. F off with that shit. Why is it acceptable? Wear a dress if you like, have the glittery handbag and stripper heels but don’t think it makes you one of us.

 

[Venom]

I'm saying this as a gay man, putting on a frock and makeup doesn't change your chromosones, your bone structure or your biological genitals. I've had a few trans 'men' (and trans 'women' for that matter) call me transphobic for not replying on grindr !. Guess I'm transphobic then because who I decide to go out with is my choice alone and no amount of trying to guilt me will change that. I like biological men, who look like men !!

 

[NeverEnough]

Quote from Maya Forstater. Sums it up succinctly.

“My case matters for everyone who believes in the importance of truth and free speech. We are all free to believe whatever we wish. What we are not free to do is compel others to believe the same thing, to silence those who disagree with us or to force others to deny reality.”

Original article.

Maya Forstater was discriminated against over gender-critical beliefs, tribunal rules

Researcher lost job at thinktank after tweeting that transgender women could not change their biological sex

www.theguardian.com

Nothing much to add. Clearly an intelligent, articulate and accomplished woman. Just like JK Rowling. The type of woman we should admire for their accomplishments.

Strange how these two female role models are public enemies one and two in a movement which is supposed to be about female empowerment?

Weird contradictory times we live in.