Shamima Begum

[Lars Guinard]

So, her family think she is a victim, the government should be helping her to travel back to the UK, and they will bring her baby up, oh and they've hired a solicitor who has just gone on nationwide TV to tell the public how we should all feel about her (sympathetic) and compared her to a world war 1 soldier

What planet do these people live on? Unfortunately, its likely this treasonous snake will eventually be issued with a UK passport, but if her family think she will go unpunished and they can all live happily ever after bringing up a jihadists baby, I sincerely hope they aren't wasting the publics money lining the pockets of their absolute toss pot of a solictor

I am a British Muslim female with South Asian heritage. Being British, no matter what your ethnic background, affords you Privileges/rights that are not a given for much of the world. Owning a UK passport is not just a right due to birth, it is a promise to abide by set requirements, it is pride and a promise to respect being British.
I do not feel sympathetic. As, if there was not the ‘tugging at heartstrings’ and this had been a White,male, Muslim revert (like my husband) the reaction of many would be different...yet that ideology is the same. I am shocked at the comparison to a WWI soldier. This was the opposite of loyalty to ones country/patriotism or national service/conscription.
Not impressed with that solicitor.

 

[Member 1682]

She shouldn’t be allowed back.

She’s been radicalised. She’s been out is Syria for years. She’s a threat to the UK now, let alone if she is on home soil.

She has said she only wants to come back to the UK for the free healthcare. She’s got some cheek!

She’s a criminal. A known member of a terrorist organisation. Why on earth would we even entertain allowing her back in?!

It’s ridiculous!

 

[burnskinetics]

She was ok with people being executed. The only thing she deserves is execution. Unfortunately our law doesn't permit her to be executed here so the most we can do is deny her a return.

 

[NeverEnough]

As much as I don’t care for this ungrateful traitor and wouldn’t bat an eyelid if she rots, I think the fairest and best thing for everyone’s safety - both the public’s and Shamima’s - is for her to be locked up indefinitely in a UK prison. And if she is genuine, she’d jump at the chance. Just a couple problems with that. 1. I doubt she’s genuine or remorseful anyway, and 2. Once back on British soil, she and her legal team and her sympathizers/fans/do-gooders will campaign non stop for her release.

It seems that the UK is responsible for her (not that she deserves it)…I could be wrong here but think she can only get Bangladeshi citizenship if she applies for it and realistically the Bangladeshi government can and would reject her application.

If she doesn’t apply for Bangladeshi citizenship it’s neither here of there in a legal sense. At the time her UK citizenship was stripped she would qualify for Bangladeshi citizenship. She still would. Therefore by not applying she has rendered herself stateless by her own inaction and the UK bears no responsibility for her. If the Bangladesh government refuse to grant citizenship to someone qualified when she has no other options available it’s them who are in violation of international law not the UK.

Begum’s lawyers and whoever is funding them (I hope it’s not the tax payer) took this too the Supreme Court and it was found the government acted completely properly.

My understanding of the position that Begum has taken regarding her Bangladeshi citizenship is she is afraid of the death sentence. An entirely odd position to take for someone who expressed supreme confidence in her innocence. She has also expressed her desire for her day in court and I’m unclear as to why that day in court can only be in the UK. Surely any trial in Bangladesh would be under the system of Islamic law which would surely be her preference? Is she implying that any trial in Bangladesh would be unfair. What an odd position for a devout Muslim to take.

And why would any IS member (which she indisputably was) suddenly be squeamish about the death sentence given the organisations reputation for summary internet posted execution. I guess when it’s her life on the line her deeply held religious principles waver. One rule for the faithful, another for unbelievers? Sounds like a pretty textbook religious bigot to me. See also the ISIS Beatles.

The irony (hypocrisy is such an ugly word) of Shamima Begum citing the minutiae of democratic justice as a reason to be brought back to the UK is breathtaking given the absolute contempt in which democracy is held in large swathes of the Muslim world. ISIS in particular. If you don’t have UK citizenship you don’t benefit from the checks and balances that are in place to protect you. Particularly if you commit a crime in a lawless hellhole like ISIS held Syria.

So just in case I haven’t made my position clear it is thus. F**k the nasty little hypocritical bigot and let her rot in the squalid consequences of her own actions with only her invisible friend in the sky for company. After all surely a Jihadi is under the divine protection of the almighty. Right?

 

[Tublet83]

Send her baby back here and leave her to rot. She made her choice, shows no remorse and I don’t want to pay for her coming back.

Poor baby should be given an opportunity to thrive unlike her other two children

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

She was groomed, and I don’t think we as a society understand grooming of this type at all. In 20 years we’ll be shocked at our attitudes to her.

I was close to authorities dealing with some of the street grooming gangs in one of the Majorly affected cities (also referred as Asian grooming gangs) and those groomed and abused girls were thought of as runaway slags from bad families.
They may not have used that language but 14 year olds disappearing from care homes and returning days later in the back of a mini cab was just seen as evidence of how brazen And out of control they were, no reflection of the men using them.

I think *most* people look back on that now and feel ashamed. But it was a different time

that said, I don’t Think SB is particularly important. look at The number of Radicalised young men returned to the U.K.- when do you hear about them? We hear about her because she’s a woman. Good old fashioned misogyny.

 

[JoeBloggs]

But…. Being immature at 15 is something we can all relate to. The fact that you didn’t do exactly the same thing as her isn’t the point, or course you didn’t. Young boys in the U.K. are groomed by gangs to commit violent crime at this age though, that’s a more similar comparison. We don’t expect a 15 year old boy to have the skills and tools to get away from being groomed by a drug gang- that’s victim blaming.


She can’t be tried under that if it’s only just been made law though can she? What she did was 7 years ago

In my eyes she is not a victim.

 

[NeverEnough]

I think it’s strange they keep pushing her to the media .I thought they liked to keep themselves / ways private

The media always has an agenda and in this case they appear to be trying to present Begum soon some sort of sympathetic figure who somehow wasn’t responsible for her own life choices and has suffered through deaths of children. Children fathered by a convicted terrorist. The argument pretty much always starts with “she was only 15”, as if a 15 year somehow doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong. And then continues with vague allegations of “online grooming“. Although the evidence seems to suggest she sought out IS videos, discussed it with her three friends, an meticulously planned her journey, even stealing from her own family. So a very high functioning nose lead thought zombie then.

And to address the elephant in the room she is certainly not the only mother to have lost young children, even multiple children. And whilst acknowledging her undoubted grief at this, I will not become voluntarily stupid and pretend that her own decisions didn’t play a major role in contributing to the death of her own children. A tip for all expectant mothers out there, if you value the health of your baby it is not a good idea to elect to live in a war zone.

Shamima Begum used to live in the UK where she enjoyed free education, free healthcare, and personal, religious and political freedoms which are enshrined in law, and a quality of life where even the bottom 10% of citizens enjoy incomes which rank them in the top 10% worldwide. She chose to abandon all this because she wanted to live a Muslim lifestyle as this was the most important thing to her. So go to Bangladesh and live your fucking dream….

 

[Miss Perla]

The only people that should want Shamima Begum home are her family. Anyone else saying allow her back here should stand in front of the families that lost their loved ones in the Manchester Arena Attack. Don,t forget she lives in a camp full of Isis women and putting a pair of leggings on and a shirt for the media means very little in my opinion!

 

[MunkyMagic]

Reality is I think she will come back
Tell you something else. The families of these 3 all blamed plod for not stopping their daughters
Some senior deluded plod went and apologised - look it up
Then it came out. One of the fathers had taken part in an anti Britsh demo in London and there was some flag burning
Why the fuck plod didn't carefully check the families backgrounds earlier baffled me
Plod looked stupid

Plod and politicians are becoming very irrelevant to certain sections of society and some of those sections are not afraid to deal with things themselves. This should really worry people its not empty rantings

This is what gets me - some people saying that Begum’s son should be given to the grandparents.

Like they’ve got a good track record where keeping their kids away from radicalisation?!?! ?

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

I can't believe there are people actively campaigning to bring her back and or supporting her in coming back. I honestly do not care what happens to her. She should've been left in Syria to be locked up in a hell hole. I have not a single ounce of sympathy for her.

Intelligence services must know something that they are not willing to share, maybe it compromises an asset. It must be really bad if this is the outcome

 

[idk2]

This is a populist agenda setting dangerous precedent.

Removal of citizenship from a UK born citizen is very troubling regardless of circumstance. Especially when done without any trial.

I’d be fine if she faced life in jail. Removing her citizenship and forbidding entry sets a dangerous precedent. Whats next? What if some whacko gov gets in power and declares BLM or LGBT terrorist organization? Revokes all its members citizenships on a whim without any trial.

THANK YOU. I've said this SO many times on this thread but people can't seem to look outside their own privilege to see this is not just about this girl. It's about ALL of us who do not tick that WHITE British box. This is 100% about setting a precedent for the future.

 

[HelloStereo]

I've never understood why people want others to forgo their culture and assimilate completely into British culture when they come here. One of the nice things about living in the UK is that you can find shops on the high street that sell Chinese spices, or Indian spices etc. You can try the cuisine of almost every country in the world, experience different festivals etc. To me, that diversity is a strength. People focus on an individual who commits crimes, rather than the many who live peacefully by our side.

What even is "British" culture anyway? Christianity isn't a native religion. Fish and chips isn't originally a British thing. Our language is the result of invasion. Our main dish is Chicken tikka masala. We're now even adopting American consumerism culture in terms of Black Friday and Cyber Monday etc. I guess we have May Day and Morris dancing? But they're often shunned by most British people. I don't think British culture has ever really been that strong, it's a consequence of us being an island and having been invaded over the years. I guess Wales and Scotland have unique customs etc, although it's important to note sometimes the English tried to eradicate them (by banning the use of the Welsh language and removing its status, etc).

Immigration was welcomed by Britain initially. The 1948 British Nationality Act said that all Commonwealth citizens could have British passports and work in the UK. We lost so many men in the wars and we brought people over to help rebuild the country again. Seems like now things have come full circle and people resent them.

I do find most people who bemoan those who do not learn the language, do not share the same disdain for British people who holiday / retire to Spain without knowing any Spanish. They also often have poor command of their beloved English language.

I know I'm rambling. I just think people bemoaning immigration because it "destroys our culture" is the height of hypocrisy, considering how a) our culture is largely a mixture of those from invaders and more recently immigration, b) we welcomed immigration to get the country running again, c) the cultural genocide the British Empire was responsible for.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I thought her citizenship was revoked two years ago and this is her appeal against that decision?

Hello, yes the citizenship was removed then. The latest decision was whether she could come back to the UK to appeal the decision (but she was not allowed as she was deemed a threat to UK security). There are still some technicalities that her lawyers are fighting regarding the removal of the citizenship i.e. whether the government interpreted Bangladeshi citizenship laws correctly.

Don’t know if you have realised but the UK is a very racist place.

This is just non-sense, the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. I am not saying it has no racists and idiots who abuse people, but to say it is a very racist place is just wrong.

Imagine growing up as a teenage girl being judged for your religion and race constantly by white people (not all but a majority), having undoubtedly had racial slurs thrown your way, and knowing that when you’re older people will see you for your race and religion first. Not to mention when ISIS cause an attack in the UK the first people that get abuse are Muslims. After growing up in this environment, it is inevitable that you would grow resentment towards this treatment of yourself and family.

Inevitable? Really? At what point do you suffer racism and think to yourself "you know what, I am going to going join a global death cult, and support terror attacks on innocent victims". You are infantilizing Muslims and other minorities if you think they are this weak-minded, that if they suffer racism they will get on the first flight to Syria and start shooting the place up.

It is very easy to be groomed as a child online,

Child? She was 15 years old and unless she is mentally ill, she must have a basic understanding of right and wrong at that age.

Remember she travelled to Syria with three other girls.

you’re impressionable and open to new ideas. ISIS do not target women by telling them about bombings and beheading, they aren’t stupid people. They lure them with the promises of feeling included and at home, with the promise of finding a boyfriend and home and sense of community. It’s very clear that as soon as she got there she realised this was not the case and desperately tried to return, but escaping monsters like ISIS is not easy. It is inevitable that things she will have heard there will have stuck with her and made an impression, but surely her choice to leave shows that she was terrified and could not live that life, if she was such an awful person surely she would have enjoyed it there?

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

In an interview with The Times in February 2019, Begum stated: “I am not the same silly little girl who left Bethnal Green four years ago. And I do not regret coming here”. She went further to say that she witnessed a “beheaded head” in a bin on the street in Raqqa, and when asked how that made her feel replied “It didn’t faze me at all”. In another interview with the BBC, also in February 2019, Begum “continued to espouse Islamic State philosophy”, likening the Manchester Arena attack in 2017 to military assaults in Syria. She also appeared to defend the enslavement, rape and murder of Yazidi women and children."

The lack of compassion for a child that was effectively lied to and manipulated is astounding on this forum. I will never ever justify the actions committed by ISIS, they are disgusting and genuinely deserve to rot.

Begum is a traitor. I would rather direct my compassion for the hundreds of victims who suffered at the hands of the barbaric movement she joined and celebrated.

 

[glasgow27]

The thing that annoys me the most is the idea that she was just a child and was making mistakes and that we all made mistakes. Sure - I'm certain we ALL made mistakes at 15 - I look at my 15 year old self and think I was definitely a bit stupid and naive then but my mistakes were more along the lines of occasionally lying about a homework grade or sneaking junk food into my cupboard. NOT joining ISIS. Probably the same for everyone else. I think she knew what she was doing and what evil she was entering into, I just refuse to buy the "just a foolish child" narrative from some.

 

[Lulu Goss]

If she had gone at 15, realised how horrific it was and that she’d made a mistake and wanted to come back, then it might have been different. What she’s actually done is shown zero regret about going, no remorse for what she has been involved in and instead just comes across like she’s had enough being there now and it should be her right to come back.

I also wonder if she’d want to come back if she was still living with her husband and not where she is now. I’d hazard a guess at probably not.

 

[GiggleBee]

Its scary because how do we know she is sincere? She might want to come back to execute another attack on us.

I'm sorry but she's made her bed and now she needs to lie in it.

 

[monga]

There was one very good point made in the documentary. The camp she is in is in no way secure. In fact the first girl from her school that joined ISIS was in the camp but has since escaped and is back with ISIS. The point made was that at least if she was tried and convicted in the UK she would be imprisoned here and would ultimately be less risk to the people of this country.

The comment further up about documentaries glorifying evil people... this did not glorify her at all. She came across as untrustworthy, enjoying the attention and with a more than questionable idea of the truth.

There are documentaries shown every week about serial killers, terrorists and perpetrators of genocide. Why shouldn't there be a documentary about her?

Why should the UK tax payer pay for her? She took up arms, she’s a terrorist.She deserves to rot in the hole she’s dug for herself.

 

[FrannyGallops]

Don’t know if you have realised but the UK is a very racist place. Imagine growing up as a teenage girl being judged for your religion and race constantly by white people (not all but a majority), having undoubtedly had racial slurs thrown your way, and knowing that when you’re older people will see you for your race and religion first. Not to mention when ISIS cause an attack in the UK the first people that get abuse are Muslims. After growing up in this environment, it is inevitable that you would grow resentment towards this treatment of yourself and family. It is very easy to be groomed as a child online, you’re impressionable and open to new ideas. ISIS do not target women by telling them about bombings and beheading, they aren’t stupid people. They lure them with the promises of feeling included and at home, with the promise of finding a boyfriend and home and sense of community. It’s very clear that as soon as she got there she realised this was not the case and desperately tried to return, but escaping monsters like ISIS is not easy. It is inevitable that things she will have heard there will have stuck with her and made an impression, but surely her choice to leave shows that she was terrified and could not live that life, if she was such an awful person surely she would have enjoyed it there?

The lack of compassion for a child that was effectively lied to and manipulated is astounding on this forum. I will never ever justify the actions committed by ISIS, they are disgusting and genuinely deserve to rot.

I can’t imagine what losing two children and seeing the things she must have seen at such a young age, surely she needs help?

Begum herself said she was inspired to join ISIS after seeing videos of fighters beheading people. Once there, she carried a rifle and was part of the ISIS ‘morality police’ enforcing their strict dress code on other women. There are also reports of her stitching people into suicide vests which couldn’t be removed without exploding.
There’s no evidence she thought ISIS were monsters and wanted to return. In fact, she’s been interviewed showing no remorse and saying she still agrees with them. I think you’re confusing her with her friend who also went to be an ISIS bride who died.
If the U.K. is so terrible to poor Shamima and so prejudiced against her religion, she’s welcome to go to Bangladesh, of which she has dual citizenship with Britain and which is 90% Muslim. But she doesn’t want to. I wonder why that is...

 

[IngressUK]

So she felt “oppressed“ because a bunch of murderous terrorists, ostensibly acting in the name of HER religion, flew planes into buildings full of living people, and then put bombs onto underground trains in the rush hour. Then to deal with this oppression she chose to leave her home to join a group who have very similar, if not more extreme, goals to the terrorists. And her justification/excuse for this? “I was a teenager”.

Now I am not feeling even the slightest glint of sympathy. Stupid little girl.

I expect the people sticking up for Shamima because 'she was only 15 at the time'', will next be sticking up for the equally despicable Jon Venables because 'he was only 10 years old at the time'. The fact of the matter was Shamina was over the age of culpability when he decided to leave the UK to join ISIS. So there really are no excuses whatsoever for her actions - she was old enough to know better in the eyes of the law.

She has made her bed, she can bloody well die in it as far as I'm concerned. No one of sensible mind wants her back in this country. It is only the same (usual) suspects out there whom are more concerned about the human rights of the criminal over everyone else in society- including victims and their relatives - who wants her back in the UK.

It is high time that these people stop kowtowing to the undeserved like Shamina and spare a thought for the victims of her involvement instead.

What on earth were the BBC thinking of giving airtime to this odious ***** in the first place?

What next? A documentary trying to excuse and justify the actions of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussain? Knowing the BBC nowadays, I wouldn't put it past them!