Shamima Begum

[AlanBanan]

What makes me laugh is that she said she went along with her friends as if it was some sort of peer pressure scenario.

like, peer pressure is having a cigarette in the bike sheds during lunch because all of ur friends are doing it, not joining a fucking terror cell

 

[IngressUK]

Well, for one, if she hadn't faced discrimination she likely wouldn't have seen ISIS as some sort of safe-haven

I don't even need to mention the Islamophobia which does often lead to discrimination, though some seem to think that's perfectly acceptable

I think you need to get off your high horse regarding Islamophobia.

Trying to justify Shamina's actions because of what you perceived to be 'Islamophobia' is just plain incorrect. She knew full well what she was doing.

Considering that many Muslim men are sexist, misogynistic and homophobic in their views, for them to demand respect from everyone else when they show such backwards views and intolerance towards others is laughable. Then have the cheek to shout 'Islamophobia' when their backward views are challenged.

Many people would not be holding negative views of Muslims if their views in this day and age weren't so backward and discriminatory towards others - just because their religious teachings of bygone ages teaches it.

 

[NeverEnough]

And she’s back again. Same pattern. A “poor ordinary girl“ interview every few months to make sure she remains a cause celebre

Shamima Begum accepts she joined a terror group

In extensive BBC interviews, Shamima Begum also reveals the detailed planning before she joined IS at 15.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just the religious bigot next door this one. Not a threat. Will only kill kaffir in very specific circumstances. Other than that a quiet anonymous person. Apart from the regular self serving media rounds of course. The thing is she is not “so much more than ISIS”. She is inextricably linked to ISIS. ISIS is the only reason anyone knows her name. She is a literal no-one without ISIS. Her fortunes mirror it perfectly. Left for a perfect muslim life when it was at an epoch, now wants to return to enjoy the freedoms of the West after her dreams died on a literal junkyard in Iraq. Your actions. Take some fucking responsibility for them.

Please don’t buy into this Britain.

 

[lilyannrose]

The level of disgust I feel at the BBC is unspeakable.

I am so, so glad my mum recently cancelled the service so that we no longer support this deranged and dangerous organization via their outdated, ridiculous tax.

 

[Ohflogoff]

I probably won’t be able to articulate myself as I would like to, but I’ll give it a shot.

This person was underage when she left the UK. She was a child. She was groomed online and was married to an adult far older than her. At her age, the UK law protect children and she was not able to provide consent. She is a victim of grooming/child sexual abuse/online radicalisation.

She was let down by the people around her that should have protected her. Blame cannot be placed on one person, but she was targeted by extremists and victimised. God only knows what happened to her.

I don’t dispute that she probably was involved in horrific crimes and assisted terrorist activity (where there would be victims as a result of this), but I do believe she is a victim of radicalisation and child sexual exploitation.

It is a huge ethical dilemma whether she should be held responsible for her actions, or whether the people responsible for grooming her should be held responsible.

As others have said, if she had been a blonde haired, blue eyes, white girl from an affluent family, I very much doubt she would be receiving the same opinions.

 

[Platypusfattypus]

Radicalisation in children is a safeguarding issue, they are children being groomed. More needs to be done to look at why groups of young people are vulnerable to this type of grooming. You can't decide something isn't grooming because you don't like the "victim".

She should be sent back to the UK because she is a British citizen. Why should Syria, a country that has been torn apart and destroyed partly by Daesh have to keep our problems that we failed to prevent. Am glad she's getting the appeal, so she can face British justice and get a fair sentence.

 

[bunnyboo]

I see loads of people saying they don't give a fuck, let her rot, not the UK's problem etc. And fair enough, I get the anger directed towards her. But are you lot not also angry at your own government who have failed yet again to intervene, missing the clear signs of radicalisation or grooming? The move to remove her citizenship may well have been in the public interest, but I think you're all kidding yourselves if you don't also think it was also a tactical move to save face for the British state. They Home Office knew removing her citizenship was a controversial move, bound to cause debate and conversation. And they also knew that it would appease a large percentage public, whilst create a very simplistic narrative of a person who decided to turn her back on British values to join a terrorist organisation. If she had been allowed to return to face trial, the evidence that the British government failed to intervene would be made more visible.

I acknowledge that people are still going to tell me that "she made the decision to leave" or whatever, but that's not considering the picture here. I know a lot of people take refuge in the fact that she is made to live as a stateless citizen in a shithole in Syria as you feel that's what a terrorist deserves, but where is the conversation about preventing terrorism? We should be more worried about the fact that counter-terror police did not adequately deal with this situation, social services missed out on several points of intervention and some how a 15-year old girl who was known to authorities was able to board a flight to Turkey from Gatwick airport unquestioned? Honestly, out of this entire story, this is what scares me most.

Sadly, there will always be people attracted to terrorist groups. But how we deter such a problem, and intervene is key to public safety.

 

[Warpaint]

Anyone watch the 90 minute BBC documentary on her? You can tell she's been well media trained since the 2019 interviews. She comes across as clear, concise and almost personable.

However the fact remains we still know next to nothing about her 4 years in ISIS. She reveals very little and is sticking with the Housewife narrative. Yet she admits being a member and takes full responsibility for it all. Her husband doesn't give anything away either. She should stay where she is and she knows that's what she deserves.

 

[WilmaHun]

She can’t be tried under that if it’s only just been made law though can she? What she did was 7 years ago

She would be tried under whatever law is current at the time she’s being tried! It’s irrelevant that what she did was 7 years ago!

I’m stunned from reading comments on articles/ social media posts sharing her interview that there are a lot of people out there who sympathise with her! Generally I consider myself quite open minded and I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but I cannot fathom how anybody can sympathise with this woman. Whether she was 15 or not when she went there; the way she conducts herself now speaks volumes. In interviews she shows not an ounce or remorse, she comes across cold, emotionless, calculated and doesn’t speak well at all. She does not strike me as sorry!

 

[JoeBloggs]

She came across as so disingenuous. I do not believe a word of it and it is all a meal ticket back here. She knows she'll walk free, get a flat and money along with probably a new identity.

 

[cedarpeach]

I initially felt "fuck her, she should never be allowed back". But after listening to a couple of solicitors talk about the case I realised that she should be brought back her to face UK justice. She is a citizen and she should be tried as such in our courts for her crimes. I don't think it's right to make another country take responsibility for her. The UK must take responsibility for the trial and punishment of its own criminals.

This is not about applying a soft touch to her, it's about the application of justice to UK citizens by UK courts.

 

[Polythene Pam]

For those that think she shouldn't return- why do you think the Kurds should have responsibility for her? She was born here and radicalised here.

I wonder how you would feel about a terrorist who was born, raised and radicalised in Bangladesh being told to come to the UK because their parent is a citizen here. It would probably be a big fat no, right? So why should Bangladesh take her.

At the end of the day someone has to be responsible for her, it should be us and we should figure something out to keep our citizens safe.

 

[NeverEnough]

Yes let’s blame the radicalised people to the point where they don’t deserve basic rights and excuse Islamophobia

No one seems to be saying she’s a 100% innocent, and the chance is that she would face some type of punishment on return for her actions during her time with ISIS

The “radicalised people” are the people who flew the fucking planes into the fucking buildings, thus depriving 3000 people of the most basic of human rights, the right to life. Look closely at the argument you are making, you are comparing Islamaphobia (which is a made up word) to the premeditated mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

I know you will never answer a direct question, but exactly who was it that was oppressing and excluding Begum, and from what was she being excluded? My understanding was that right up until the day she left she was attending secondary school, just like any other teenager, she was free to follow whichever dictates of her religion she wished, was free to enter into any relationship she wanted to, had a stable secure home, food on the table, access to free healthcare, and didn’t appear to be under any sort of surveillance. And pretty much chose to exclude herself by running away to join the religious bigots in Syria. No human rights were removed from any Muslim citizens following 9/11, or 7/7, if I’m wrong can you (once again) explain which ones you think were. She might have FELT oppressed or excluded, but her feelings are frankly fucking irrelevant. She wasn’t and is just using “the feels” as a bullshit excuse.

 

[MunkyMagic]

She’s got some brass neck; not sure how one can simultaneously hate a nation to the point of wanting it’s destruction and yet demand to take every privilege it affords when things get rough in Syria.

But it is kind of a moot point, regardless of what we want she’s a British citizen so expect her back here soon.

 

[monga]

Don’t know if you have realised but the UK is a very racist place. Imagine growing up as a teenage girl being judged for your religion and race constantly by white people (not all but a majority), having undoubtedly had racial slurs thrown your way, and knowing that when you’re older people will see you for your race and religion first. Not to mention when ISIS cause an attack in the UK the first people that get abuse are Muslims. After growing up in this environment, it is inevitable that you would grow resentment towards this treatment of yourself and family. It is very easy to be groomed as a child online, you’re impressionable and open to new ideas. ISIS do not target women by telling them about bombings and beheading, they aren’t stupid people. They lure them with the promises of feeling included and at home, with the promise of finding a boyfriend and home and sense of community. It’s very clear that as soon as she got there she realised this was not the case and desperately tried to return, but escaping monsters like ISIS is not easy. It is inevitable that things she will have heard there will have stuck with her and made an impression, but surely her choice to leave shows that she was terrified and could not live that life, if she was such an awful person surely she would have enjoyed it there?

The lack of compassion for a child that was effectively lied to and manipulated is astounding on this forum. I will never ever justify the actions committed by ISIS, they are disgusting and genuinely deserve to rot.

I can’t imagine what losing two children and seeing the things she must have seen at such a young age, surely she needs help?

I wonder what the " White Widows " excuse was ...she came from a White family and was radicalised aged 17 .I don't think colour has anything to do with it it's down to beliefs and the choice to seek them out.

 

[bunnyboo]

It’s the lack of remorse in the interviews for me. Obviously it’s heartbreaking she has lost her children, that’s horrid, but at 15 she knew leaving her family, school and country behind was not something a good citizen does. In the interviews she just comes across as a bored person who wants to come back, but she doesn’t seem to show much despair about her actions.

I appreciate she could have been groomed but she shouldn’t get a free pass (and neither should men who go and fight for ISIS).

This will probably drag on for years though. Maybe bring her back and prison for life might be the answer. I don’t know the law so this is just my opinion.

Just to be clear here, the vast majority of people do not want to see her getting a 'free pass' because she was groomed.

I don't think those of us who are arguing that the removal of citizenship from a UK born citizen is very troubling (particularly when the alleged perpetrator was denied due process by the state) want to see this woman get a 'free pass'. I think it's actually the British government who are the ones trying to get a free pass here, to wipe their hands clean of a woman who was born, raised (and groomed!) in the United Kingdom. There was numerous failures by the British authorities leading up to this event too, and I don't think will ever be acknowledged either. Or maybe it will in 10 years when there is some long drawn out review of how of how this case was dealt with and people wonder how these mistakes occurred in the first place.

Many criminals commit vile acts of depravity and sit in court showing absolutely no remorse, but they are still granted the right to a proper hearing and defence in our systems of due process. These people would certainly not qualify as 'good citizens' either.

 

[steste]

I think people have a warped perception of what would happen if she returns. She’d live a normal-ish life and would be monitored by intelligence (like hundreds of others).

She’s not going to be unmasked on the Masked Singer, go into the jungle or join Loose Women as a panellist.

 

[Glaschelle]

For me it's simple. She British and therefore our problem. We can't just try and pass this onto Bangladesh.

Criminals including mudrerers and sex offenders who've lived in Canada and Australia since they were toddlers get deported back here regularly. Hell we even took Gary Glitter back, so why is she any different.

 

[NeverEnough]

Absolutely. As the one guy in the documentary tonight said, if Sharmeema hadn't gone to Syria, then Shamina, Kadija and Amira probably wouldn't have either. They were 15/16 years old and had grown up in a western world in the shadow of 9/11 and 7/7. She says in the documentary that she felt "oppressed" and admits that was probably an overreaction, due to being a teenager.

I can't even begin to imagine where your head is at at 15 to "run away from home" to a foreign country that is a warzone.

So she felt “oppressed“ because a bunch of murderous terrorists, ostensibly acting in the name of HER religion, flew planes into buildings full of living people, and then put bombs onto underground trains in the rush hour. Then to deal with this oppression she chose to leave her home to join a group who have very similar, if not more extreme, goals to the terrorists. And her justification/excuse for this? “I was a teenager”.

Now I am not feeling even the slightest glint of sympathy. Stupid little girl.

 

[idk2]

By deporting the girl and making her stateless, does this not set an inherently -racist- precedent that any BAME/POC who commits a heinous crime can be made stateless (or deported) back to a country of their origin even though they were born in the UK? She should be tried in the UK and answer for her crimes here. Whether she's here or there, neither will be a life of leisure for her.

The news makes this girl out to be much older than she was at the time. She was 15 years old and heavily radicalised. She WAS failed by everyone around her. Schools, parents, family, GP, friends etc. Grooming is incredibly scary, especially in this day and age and a 14 year old who probably hadnt been used to male attention was an easy target as kids can be easily moulded at that age. I know girls in their bloody 20's who will change themselves for their boyfriends.

Its a very dangerous game they are playing here and all of the people in charge have their own agendas. I'll be honest, I haven't followed the case much.