MOD & FOD #33 Bots a plenty, we're under attack. Don't blame me I've been hacked hacked!

[sassmaster3000]

The Robert Milligan statue that was removed, I walked past it often. Barely noticed it or took note of who it was. I think plaques acknowledging history truthfully is what is required. Times were very very different then. No need to vandalise or remove historical figures. It won't erase the past or the hurt people feel.

Statues are erected to commemorate someone’s achievements. They are there to celebrate the person immortalised in stone/copper/whatever material used.
Would you be happy to take down a statue of jimmy saville and replace it with a plaque? After all, he did a lot for charity...

As you said, you’ve been walked past that statue many times and not noticed. That’s because it didn’t effect you. I’m sure you’d feel different if you had to walk past a statue of hitler every day.
Imagine someone saying “what if we take down the state of hitler and put a plaque on place instead?”

I don’t think you have considered what it is like to be a minority. I’m not trying to shame you. But please try to understand why there is a general outcry to tear these statues down. Your response screams white privilege and I think you would really benefit from some extra reading.

Side note, I am really trying not to be bitchy here. I am a white woman who has faced a lot of hard truths over the last couple weeks, and I am just trying to ask you to perhaps do the same.

 

[Mangofruity]

Statues are erected to commemorate someone’s achievements. They are there to celebrate the person immortalised in stone/copper/whatever material used.
Would you be happy to take down a statue of jimmy saville and replace it with a plaque? After all, he did a lot for charity...

As you said, you’ve been walked past that statue many times and not noticed. That’s because it didn’t effect you. I’m sure you’d feel different if you had to walk past a statue of hitler every day.
Imagine someone saying “what if we take down the state of hitler and put a plaque on place instead?”

I don’t think you have considered what it is like to be a minority. I’m not trying to shame you. But please try to understand why there is a general outcry to tear these statues down. Your response screams white privilege and I think you would really benefit from some extra reading.

Side note, I am really trying not to be bitchy here. I am a white woman who has faced a lot of hard truths over the last couple weeks, and I am just trying to ask you to perhaps do the same.

She's a poc...

 

[FrannyGallops]

Statues are erected to commemorate someone’s achievements. They are there to celebrate the person immortalised in stone/copper/whatever material used.
Would you be happy to take down a statue of jimmy saville and replace it with a plaque? After all, he did a lot for charity...

As you said, you’ve been walked past that statue many times and not noticed. That’s because it didn’t effect you. I’m sure you’d feel different if you had to walk past a statue of hitler every day.
Imagine someone saying “what if we take down the state of hitler and put a plaque on place instead?”

I don’t think you have considered what it is like to be a minority. I’m not trying to shame you. But please try to understand why there is a general outcry to tear these statues down. Your response screams white privilege and I think you would really benefit from some extra reading.

Side note, I am really trying not to be bitchy here. I am a white woman who has faced a lot of hard truths over the last couple weeks, and I am just trying to ask you to perhaps do the same.

That poster who you’ve quoted has already said she’s a POC.

 

[sassmaster3000]

My apologies. I came on here after spending the entire day going off on my right-wing family members. Just saw the comment and reacted without looking further into who posted it. Sending genuine apologies, I hope I have not caused offence.

 

[Dogmuck]

Do you think they will call it a day like Mrs Meldrum who has deleted all her social media accounts

I tell you what though guys, we need an exit strategy if the SODs do a Mrs Meldrum, as that thread was unceremoniously shut down mid “will she won’t she” come back speculation and all the Meldrum trolls were evicted to who knows where? I think I saw one of them in the Hinch thread earlier but couldn’t be sure, didn’t look like she’d had a decent troll for days, hair looked messy, no spark, looked lost really. Let’s not let that happen to us here...we need a plan. So I’d like some volunteers to come forward for basic evacuation training. You’ll get a high vis jacket, an extra £3.75 in your pay packet and 20% off Gusto. The volunteers will lead the rest of the SOD trolls out of the defunked thread and to a safe place. Safe place to be agreed at first volunteer meeting.
Right, just sign up below.

 

[Aboveallelse]

Statues are erected to commemorate someone’s achievements. They are there to celebrate the person immortalised in stone/copper/whatever material used.
Would you be happy to take down a statue of jimmy saville and replace it with a plaque? After all, he did a lot for charity...

As you said, you’ve been walked past that statue many times and not noticed. That’s because it didn’t effect you. I’m sure you’d feel different if you had to walk past a statue of hitler every day.
Imagine someone saying “what if we take down the state of hitler and put a plaque on place instead?”

I don’t think you have considered what it is like to be a minority. I’m not trying to shame you. But please try to understand why there is a general outcry to tear these statues down. Your response screams white privilege and I think you would really benefit from some extra reading.

Side note, I am really trying not to be bitchy here. I am a white woman who has faced a lot of hard truths over the last couple weeks, and I am just trying to ask you to perhaps do the same.

I am a poc. What offends me more in that area is the gleaming towers of canary wharf. I worked there for many years. And the hierarchy is blatantly visible. White Middle classes in their suits and top jobs, local Asians in the shopping outlets and Black cleaners/maintenence /security. What is crap is that all the bankers and top people commute into the area. E14 is a area of huge disparity. So I didn't find that forgotten old statue in a corner offensive, it barely registered on my conscious. What upsets me the creeping gentrification of the area. That is the daily reality that upsets me. The average person is being pushed out. But someone like Hitler is very recent history . That would be hugely upsetting. The figures from slavery I will admit my ignorance of. The docks have a very rich and deep history. I am not fully aware of all of it, but it does interest me.

This country is built on the profit of slavery, empire robbed countries of their resources. What needs to happen is education for British kids. Teach them the true history of this country.
Anyway forget about me now, this thread is about the mofods!

 

[Titfer]

I am a poc. What offends me more in that area is the gleaming towers of canary wharf. I worked there for many years. And the hierarchy is blatantly visible. White Middle classes in their suits and top jobs, local Asians in the shopping outlets and Black cleaners/maintenence /security. What is crap is that all the bankers and top people commute into the area. E14 is a area of huge disparity. So I didn't find that forgotten old statue in a corner offensive, it barely registered on my conscious. What upsets me the creeping gentrification of the area. That is the daily reality that upsets me. The average person is being pushed out. But someone like Hitler is very recent history . That would be hugely upsetting. The figures from slavery I will admit my ignorance of. The docks have a very rich and deep history. I am not fully aware of all of it, but it does interest me.

We are Scottish rural, majority white - my dad has business contracts all over the country (and globally). He dealt with an Indian supplier based in London, meetings in Indian restaurants - he has never witnessed so much intense hierarchal racism within one race as he experienced during these meetings and quickly stopped the trade.

Nadia from.GBBO has also commented on colourism she has experienced from her own race and her own parents!

I'm not sure where I'm going with this post, but I think my main point is everyone's experience is different and reactions are very personal x

But also maybe not as succinct as I hoped as I'm arse deep in a bottle of wine....

 

[Aboveallelse]

Yes, we're seeing this with all the backlash Priti Patel is getting. I just don't understand anymore....
I thought coronavirus and lockdown was an anxious time...

 

[qwerty_79]

We are Scottish rural, majority white - my dad has business contracts all over the country (and globally). He dealt with an Indian supplier based in London, meetings in Indian restaurants - he has never witnessed so much intense hierarchal racism within one race as he experienced during these meetings and quickly stopped the trade.

Nadia from.GBBO has also commented on colourism she has experienced from her own race and her own parents!

I'm not sure where I'm going with this post, but I think my main point is everyone's experience is different and reactions are very personal x

But also maybe not as succinct as I hoped as I'm arse deep in a bottle of wine....

I was just discussing statues and what not with my husband. His view is tearing them apart not only is just an extreme action that does not address the issue at hand but also it may result in future generations forgetting what the predecessors have done wrong. We then veered into this very topic: racism exists everywhere - is not only against one group and as much as BLM is important as black people are vulnerable in many parts of the world is just one piece in the puzzle. To take this back a bit on topic though: MOD did make very direct comments about a black woman’s race, but she did more than just that: she’s a bully to all her peers and she discriminated them when she looked down upon them as six graders or whatever she called them. That’s how a lot of people behave: hierarchy, colour of skin, gender is all fair game to judge and NOT #bekind to one another

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

My apologies. I came on here after spending the entire day going off on my right-wing family members. Just saw the comment and reacted without looking further into who posted it. Sending genuine apologies, I hope I have not caused offence.

I don’t think you’re in the wrong btw - there’s a lot of discourse around the term POC versus black and has been for years. There’s still hierarchies and comparative privileges & even prejudices between POC groups so it’s entirely possible for a POC to have anti black or non inclusive views whilst facing prejudices / systemic disadvantages themselves. POC issues =/= black issues. Yes it’s optically bad as white women (which I’m one too, but second gen so raised with an understanding of what Britain has done tbh) to say XYZ but I strongly disagree with the statue stuff and think it shows a real ignorance.

Tbh I don’t know why I’m posting this cos I don’t want this to turn into another load of bile like on the Jack Monroe thread loool I’ve actually been enjoying coming here as respite RIP me xo

 

[Notaninstamumeither]

These conversations just highlight yet again how Tattle is anything but a group of lazy ill educated trolls.

Re The Meldrums, think the SoDs have a lot more to lose. Can’t see them bowing out. I have this horrible image of Clemmie, Susie Verrill and Mrs Meldrum on some sort of Loose Women program, discussing the challenges they’ve been through on social media, and how although they’ve tried to change the trolls won’t let them...

 

[CookieCrumble]

It’s so interesting to directly hear the experiences / thoughts of poc here, thank you for sharing

 

[Agent Krycek]

I imagine she viewed her ten hour shift a week or whatever it was as an odious task that had to be done so that she could keep her USP and garner all the freebies.

Totally agree - there was no need for her to continue to work at Kings after the move to Ramsgate. There are plenty of more local hospitals where she could have done some good, but that's not as prestigious as working at a top London hospital. Her train tickets would have swollowed up a big proportion of her wages I'd imagine.

In regards to the statues, I am mixed (although 3/4 white and people usually assume I am just that) and I agree with @Aboveallelse - I didn't even register all the statues in London and around the country. I can see why they are the focus of people's anger currently, but there needs to a systemic change, and the pulling down of statues is inspiring the far right to gather under the pretence of 'protecting our history' which unfortunately will resonate with all the rabid Brexiteers of middle England and may set the BLM movement backwards in terms of public sympathy. I don't think any significant progress in regards to race relations will happen under the conservative government though sadly.

 

[sassmaster3000]

It’s been a full two weeks since he posted (not counting the black square because that was purely performative). He must be absolutely dying to post some more “original content”. I can’t imagine what the atmosphere is like in the house of horrors at the moment.

 

[Tattlingpineapple]

This country is built on the profit of slavery, empire robbed countries of their resources. What needs to happen is education for British kids. Teach them the true history of this country.

In Germany we learn very early and a lot about our horrible history and I've often been bewildered by many British people who have a completely uncritical perspective on British (colonial) history and even seem proud about how big the British Empire once was. Don't want to compare these two and I haven't learned much about colonial crimes committed by the German Empire in school either - because the Holocaust and also World War I take up so much time of the curriculum.... but yeah. I just always found it strange that British people are usually very proud about their whole history. I hope I haven't offended anybody. I don't want to generalize. It's just my experience and I belief it's very important to critically reflect colonial history (also in Germany.).

 

[usernamecannotbechanged]

In Germany we learn very early and a lot about our horrible history and I've often been bewildered by many British people who have a completely uncritical perspective on British (colonial) history and even seem proud about how big the British Empire once was. Don't want to compare these two and I haven't learned much about colonial crimes committed by the German Empire in school either - because the Holocaust and also World War I take up so much time of the curriculum.... but yeah. I just always found it strange that British people are usually very proud about their whole history. I hope I haven't offended anybody. I don't want to generalize. It's just my experience and I belief it's very important to critically reflect colonial history (also in Germany.).

The curriculum might be better now (I hope so) but when I was in the UK school system in the 90s we basically only learned about Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome, Vikings, the Tudors, WW1 & WW2. Anything else was glossed over at best, and we just kept going back to those subjects over and over!

It shouldn't take too much critical thinking to realise that a tiny island doesn't end up ruling over a quarter of the world due to the power of dry humour and cream scones, but actual education about that period should be essential, I think.

 

[LuBiLu]

The curriculum might be better now (I hope so) but when I was in the UK school system in the 90s we basically only learned about Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome, Vikings, the Tudors, WW1 & WW2. Anything else was glossed over at best, and we just kept going back to those subjects over and over!

It shouldn't take too much critical thinking to realise that a tiny island doesn't end up ruling over a quarter of the world due to the power of dry humour and cream scones, but actual education about that period should be essential, I think.

KS1 and KS2 is pretty much the same.

They do learn about the Crimean War in KS1. With talks on Florence Nightingale and Mary Seacole. The Mary Seacole talks we did always covered how she faced a lot of challenges and discrimination due to her being a POC.

I cannot speak for Secondary curriculum though. I'll have to ask my sons.

 

[sassmaster3000]

The curriculum might be better now (I hope so) but when I was in the UK school system in the 90s we basically only learned about Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome, Vikings, the Tudors, WW1 & WW2. Anything else was glossed over at best, and we just kept going back to those subjects over and over!

I left school in 2012 and can sadly confirm the curriculum is pretty much the same. My brother is 17 and he’s reported that it’s still the same now, unfortunately. We definitely need a big reform in the British school curriculum

 

[CookieCrumble]

In Germany we learn very early and a lot about our horrible history and I've often been bewildered by many British people who have a completely uncritical perspective on British (colonial) history

you have perfectly described me! Not offended, you are right. I just don’t know about our history in this way - I assume we are not great but I don’t have hard examples. I didn’t realise Much about our involvement in slavery until the statues discussion!

has anyone seen a good book or digest online about this? Any recommendations

 

[Axatogrind]

Does anyone know if Clemmie made her comments about Candice before or after she did a podcast with her?

The comments about race were wrong. As recent events are highlighting even more.

But if she made them after inviting Candice to speak on her podcast. To share her personal experience and how black women were more likely to experience this purely due to racism. And then to make those comments? That feels really low.

Perhaps Clemmie invited Candice to speak for publicity rather than a genuine desire to highlight the racism bias in maternal care?

The comments appeared to be well before the podcast, I did a little googling and came up with the following timeline of a few items which are datestamped.