Gender Discussions #2

[Mycuppatea]

Ah here??!
Masculine women and feminine men are now trans?! If you ever needed proof that transgender ideology is inherently misogynistic.
This is all one big Men's Rights Activism trojan horse.

I'm intersex and I categorically refuse to be included under that umbrella. Intersex is a biological condition of being that one is born with, and has absolutely nothing to do with transgender transgenderism - some intersex people may also be trans but that's it.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Amen

 

[Sheeeet]

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Trans women don’t need access to women’s services because they aren’t women. The fuck does an mtf need to see a gynaecologist for? Why should they be placed in women’s domestic violence refuges with vulnerable women who may find the presence of a biological Male triggering because of trauma they have suffered at the hands of other biological males?

No, they don’t need access to women’s services. Trans people need to campaign for their own services and spaces, much like women have. No body gave rape crisis and women’s aid to us, women fought for those things. Women and trans women have different needs and life experiences. They do not mix in settings where women are at their most vulnerable.

And kids going on blockers is absolutely nothing to be so blase about. There is zero evidence to say these blockers are fully reversible or what the long term effects of these off label cancer drugs are, despite the the likes of Mermaids and Stonewall claiming otherwise. The nhs recently changed its guidance on blockers and removed any mention of them being reversible. Anyone who thinks stunting such a vital part of human physical and mental development is normal or healthy and should be supported is delusional quite frankly. It’s a scandal waiting to be uncovered. Kids are being sold lies about how they can “become a boy/girl” and it’s disgusting.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Just came for a read in here after the JK Rowling stuff - and God I’m absolutely sick to the back teeth of being told feminism has to be inclusive. It’s about women, not whoever wants to be included! I don’t want to ~ just be kind ~ and include men in our private spaces. They should get their own third space and advocate for that instead of treading all over what’s rightfully ours for our protection. If trans people campaigned for a third space I’d be all for it but the impetus for that is on them, not women. Why are we always being told to do men’s dirty work for them? Saying men here because funnily enough it's always transwomen demanding access, never ever seem to see transmen wanting the same.

 

[CheshireLove]

A trans women is a women, thats why they are called women.

However, i would also not say that their rights sre more important than anyone else's, as in i think eveyone should have equal rights. So yes, if someone is going to find their presence uncomfortable at a women's rescue shelter, then another solution should be found. But why should they be turned away for a service they also need? Because I don't believe a trans women is going to turn up at a gynecologist or a domestic shelter unless they actually need that service. Why would they want to make their own lives harder knowing the backlash they'd face for it? (There will of course always be a minority who exploit services, for now, I'm not talking about them).

I agree, trans women having their own services is a good idea if it makes people feel more comfortable. But i disagree with the notion that they should be the ones to fight for it just because we had to fight for women's rights on our own. We should help everyone we can get equal rights and opportunities.

I also definitely do not think giving children blockers is anything to be blaise about. I've already covered my opinion on trans children and their treatment and support so I'll not repeat it.


I would also just like to point out that just because I disagree with J.K.Rowling and the way she has going about things and used her platform, does not mean that I don't think a discussion needs to be had surrounding all of this. Because it most definitely does.

A transwoman is a transwoman. It is not appropriate that male bodied persons have access to facilities and services for women and girls. These are sex separated spaces that need to stay this way for the safety and wellbeing of women and girls. Instead of the fervent push to allow open access into womens spaces and services there should be greater access created for the needed services and support for transpeople.

 

[Mycuppatea]

yup and pretty sure intersex people aren't a "inbetween/3rd gender" pretty sure they are either male/female with mostly one type of characteristics from one of those sexes and they are born with an anamoly like testes in a female for example.

I am intersex, and it is not a gender at all. It is a sex: babies can be born male, female or - rarely - intersex. It varies a lot because intersex is an umbrella term for a wide variety of conditions.

But generally intersex people hate hate hate being used as a debating point by TRAs who think our existence is some kind of perfect gotcha to use in an argument.

 

[judgejohndeed]

The word woman is now being erased so much that it's no longer about chromosomes, it's about "feelings", long hair, dresses, high heels

If only we could opt out of being raped, catcalled, paid less, passed over for promotions, forced into FGM, murdered for rejecting men, the victims of domestic abuse, by saying we no longer feel like women!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

It’s getting silly now. Women literally can’t have anything, we can’t call anything our own, how much of the population do trans people make up? Something like 1%? And yet here they are trying to dominate a discussion about how women use language to describe ourselves. And it’s not in the name of inclusivity, because no one trying to police men’s language to the same extent. I’ve not once seen any sort of charity or organisation refer to men as ‘prostate havers’ or ‘people who ejaculate’ yet plenty seem to think the word woman is a dirty word. The PCOS sub on Reddit and now the Period sub has been subject to TRA’s trying to police their language as well. I just did a quick search and PCOS is no longer private but is preaching about lgbtqiabcd inclusivity in their description which they’ve added in probably because of pressure from Reddit mods. r/periods has been targeted because they have in their rules that they do not accept women being called things like ‘menstruators’ which is apparently ‘terfy’. The bar for being a ‘terf’ seems to be getting lower and lower, anything that even remotely resembles women setting boundaries is ‘terfy’ so it seems.

Just leave us the fuck alone???It is exhausting. There is literally no need to be on a period or pcos sub if you’re a male. If you’re a female who is a trans man then you should have the intelligence to understand the difference between ‘sex and gender’ like you lot have been telling us over and over and realise you have a female body and always will regardless of what you identify as. It shouldn’t offend you to hear female people aka women talking about something using female and factually correct language. Also, why isn’t ‘women and trans men’ acceptable when it comes to talking about female issues? Why can’t it be ‘women and trans men who are pregnant’ or ‘women and trans men with pcos’ I know it’s a bit of a mouthful, but women get to keep our language whilst trans men dont feel excluded. Can’t help with the trans women part when it comes to periods or pcos spaces because they have no business being in either space.

 

[Zenchick101]

Hello! I've wandered over here from JKR thead in Celebs. I think JKR is fanstistic - so intelligent and eloquent. But there's one thing that I really don't understand and the Stephen King tweet highlighted this tonight.

Why is this always about Trans women? Why does trans men never seem to mentioned?

Hi there and welcome! Most of us are wondering the exact same thing, and I imagine that's one of the concerns of JKR. From what we've seen on twitter, most transmen are usually just trying to chill and live their lives TRA or not, and some like Buck white even understand where were coming from. However Transwomen seem to be full of closeted fetishists/cross dressers etc.. who get a kick out of being misognistic assholes. Of course not all TW are like that, but these pretenders are espcially common among TW and seem to enjoy invading anything that has to do with women. They not only want to be able to identify as us but they want to pretend that they can be better women then bio women.
I don't see ANY transmen saying they ejaculate and can father children however TW now think they have any and all of our biological specificities. We're assuming it's internalized misoginistic male urges.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

So it’s world breastfeeding week and there’s a frame on Facebook for your profile picture which reads “peace love chestfeeding - world breastfeeding week” and the word ‘chestfeeding’ makes me irrationally angry. You don’t feed your baby with your chest you can only do that if you have breasts that contain mammary glands. It’s beyond frustrating how this so called ‘inclusive’ language is seeping into society.

 

[svdwoodsen]

I'm so grateful for this board. My social media has been flooded with "woke-ness" in every possible way and I was even accused of being an enabler when I didn't like or put up a ton of PC posts (even though I almost never comment on politics, controversial social issues, etc. on social media because I think it's unnecessary to be obnoxiously loud with my opinion and potentially harmful for background checks for jobs). Apparently free speech these days means it's free speech as long as you agree with me (usually being the radical left) and you're hateful/racist/bigot if you disagree.

I would've been slaughtered for having the discussion we've had so far.

 

[Pambo]

No shit it gives an unfair advantage. And it’s not just height that’s the issue, males are a great deal stronger and faster than women thanks to testosterone and male physiology. Even aged 50+, Gabrielle Ludwig could still outplay young women.

It's this Orwellian denial of science and reality that really disturbs me with the left.

MMA transgender fighter Fallon Fox was an unrated nobody as a male fighter, but once transitioned and entered the female divisions, pulverised the competition. In one fight (s)he broke his opponent's skull he hit her so hard. Let that sink in - not her jaw, her skull. The woman said later that she'd never felt so overwhelmed and helpless in a fight before. And as you can imagine, this was a big girl, rippling muscles, peak physical condition, trained competitively for years in full contact martial arts - and Fallon Fox just wiped the floor with her. The reigning woman's champ at the time, Rhonda Rousey, refused to fight Fox. That fight looks like what it is too, a man beating the living hell out of a woman, and is uncomfortable to watch.

If you want to say you're a woman, fine. I'll call you one or Miss or Ms or Lady Godiva if you like. But you ain't a woman. This is where it gets Orwellian with the left as you have to just not go along with it and say it, but you have to believe it too. So you get guys winning women's sports, and leftist clowns cheering, seeing this as progress.

 

[SilentSue]

When I found out that the baby I'm carrying is a girl, it galvanized me. I will no longer sit back and be quiet. If my gender critical stance means I lose my job, so be it.

Body feeding!

This makes me think of seagulls who regurgitate their food into their chicks' mouths. Blergh.

What the fuck is wrong with people.

In a couple of weeks' time, I'll either be pushing a baby out of my birth canal, or having my uterus cut open to get her out. If anyone tries any 'woke' language with me, they'll be feeling the sharp edge of my tongue, and no mistake.

 

[barmj]

I’m fed up. I’m just so fed up. I still don’t like JKR, she’s shady and I don’t agree with all of her political opinions so I won’t be saying she’s a flawless queen, etc., BUT I am grateful that she is speaking up. It’s the extremists who are giving genuine trans people a bad name, and their whole movement is cult-like... a lot of people are too afraid to speak critically because they don’t want to lose their friends or their jobs. Even my friend who is a trans man, the one I mentioned in the previous thread, doesn’t really speak up because he’d be seen as truscum and transphobic, even though he was born female! It’s baffling.

I understand wanting to be progressive but why can’t more people see that this is being done at the expense of (natal) women and our rights? I consider myself progressive and leftist but I also think critically... why is that suddenly a bad thing now?

 

[Shestheman22]

I’ve never really thought much about the gender debate and I’m sure it’s only become an issue in the past 5 years or so?

If you think back to the 80s/90s etc there were trans people etc back then and they never shouted about how they felt excluded from public toilets and stuff. Non binary wasn’t a thing, people were just androgynous. I don’t get why some people need a label for everything? Fair enough if you don’t conform to gender stereotypes, it’s 2020, but why label yourself as non binary and expect others to change their language so they don’t offend you.

This may be controversial but personally I believe that gender dysphoria is a serious mental illness. And if tiktok is anything to go by, it very often manifests alongside other mental illnesses as well. There are so many trans/non binary people on there that are always banging on about their problems - often they claim to have depression, anxiety, bipolar, personality disorders etc.

Yes I understand that times change and I hate to sound like a daily mail reader but the world really has gone mad. The Luna sanitary pad debacle is just crazy, if you look on twitter people are praising them for being inclusive but it’s just ridiculous that we are not allowed to say ‘woman’ as it might offend a tiny tiny proportion of the population!

 

[svdwoodsen]

Why is it that these biological men have to trample on our rights to campaign for more rights for themselves? Why is it that they can be born male (and hence with all the physical features and advantages of that gender) and somehow when they decide they want to be a woman, we have to include them in our safe spaces, communities, and campaign for them as well? Women's rights are for women because we face unique challenges that result from our physiology and experience in the world. A biological man does not understand why we feel threatened when we get cat called by large, hulking figures on the streets or when a particularly aggressive man corners us in a bar. We are not comparable and our experiences in the world are different, and therefore, need different communities that address the difficulties of each group separately.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

A few years ago my niece went through a "tomboy" phase- she insisted on cutting her hair really short and wore only "boys" clothes. It turns out she just wanted to fit in with boys and thought that by dressing like them they'd notice her. Just a typical teen kind of thing. She's grown out of that now but I shudder to imagine some trans activists telling her she's not really a girl and was born into the wrong body

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This isn't recent but I came across it on YouTube

What a woman Germaine Greer is

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Because she isn't remotely "transphobic". Believing men aren't women doesn't make one transphobic