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Aboveallelse · Jun 13, 2020

CookieCrumble said:
Thank you for taking the time to write and sharing those thoughts which are super personal and also must be conflicting.

im a white woman and only started just to see what you describe because of the all discussion around BLM right now. That’s kind of why i read the Candice Book, even though I’m not a fan of her. And re-evaluating Clemmie having seen what you describe made me feel so sick.

yes I bet all the insta mums are guilty of it. I mean, everyone is, so how can they not be. Bleurhh it’s so bad. Do you feel that the current discussions around BLM can improve things - as more pepple start to understand it?

Currently no... I feel anxious and scared shirtless watching it all play out in the news. As a naturally unconfrontational person I don't like conflict/arguments and I generally keep my mouth shut. The anarchy and chaos is really very unsettling and we know the pushback against the blm movement is coming. I amount of highly visual division is worrying and scary. I don't know if the future will be better for my children. I've done my best to give them a equal/head start because we have the good fortune of being homeowners with no debt. But as keyworkers on a fair salary with 4 children. I would say I'm priveledged compared to most. Despite having 2 high functioning asperger boys. The future feels very precarious.

Madbadsad · Jun 13, 2020

Does anyone know if Clemmie made her comments about Candice before or after she did a podcast with her?

The comments about race were wrong. As recent events are highlighting even more.

But if she made them after inviting Candice to speak on her podcast. To share her personal experience and how black women were more likely to experience this purely due to racism. And then to make those comments? That feels really low.

Perhaps Clemmie invited Candice to speak for publicity rather than a genuine desire to highlight the racism bias in maternal care?

I’m a midwife so my personal beef with Clemmie has long been how she has exploited the midwife aspect for her own gain.

I started to slowly realise how she didn’t really give a shit. I messaged her a few times to ask if she could use her platform to highlight big issues happening in Midwifery. Loss of Supervisors of midwives and Independent Midwifery. These weren’t in the Press. Naively I thought that she had a great platform to share this.

She did reply to my messages but said she wouldn’t. It seemed clear her passion wasn’t supporting women and Midwifery but rather Interiors, clothes and other superficial stuff

Aboveallelse · Jun 13, 2020

Dogmuck said:
Wow. That’s so humbling and frighteningly sad. I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel that way. I’m sorry on behalf of white people and I’m sorry we haven’t done enough to make your life equal. I can only hope that this spark we are currently seeing triggers some real change

Hi. So sweet of you. You don't need to apologise I don't think I actually blame anyone or anything. I'm not particularly upset or angry about my life or the opportunities I've had. I accept my life and feel content with most things. I just hope the future is better for the next generation. Before we are torn apart by greedy exploitative companies and individuals who dehumanise human beings.

Yes clemmie was all in it for her own personal gain. There are so many issues she could have highlighted in regard to NHS, midwifery and the state of pay and working conditions for nurses. She wasn't even a particularly experienced midwife.

CookieCrumble · Jun 13, 2020

I hope things change. I mean... I have only just learnt the things you have described and now I won’t be able to un- see them.

I think if Clemmie got caught making those comments now she would be publicly fired. There is no way the NHS could not make a statement on it

Titfer · Jun 13, 2020

CookieCrumble said:
No she doesn’t.

We can hold dual thoughts here though, right?

Clemmie has been an abysmal racist. It’s an absolute disgrace.

plus whatever you think about Candice’s sex linked work, which I wasn’t discussing right now, and isn’t linked to her childbirth, and medical negligence, and subsequent violent abuse by a white midwife

not linked at all

Candice was violently abused by a midwife?!

Aboveallelse said:
Currently no... I feel anxious and scared shirtless watching it all play out in the news. As a naturally unconfrontational person I don't like conflict/arguments and I generally keep my mouth shut. The anarchy and chaos is really very unsettling and we know the pushback against the blm movement is coming. I amount of highly visual division is worrying and scary. I don't know if the future will be better for my children. I've done my best to give them a equal/head start because we have the good fortune of being homeowners with no debt. But as keyworkers on a fair salary with 4 children. I would say I'm priveledged compared to most. Despite having 2 high functioning asperger boys. The future feels very precarious.

I think the EDL and BNP types attempted a pushback by "protecting the statues" but I think that's blew up in their faces - when they reverted back to their default setting of thuggery x

Miss Anne Thrope · Jun 13, 2020

Everything that's happening right now is so stressful and triggering. All the in your face stuff I endured as a teen and all the exclusion in the school playground as a mum. The stuff at work. I feel that I know exactly what sort of woman Clemmie Hooper is, and I really hope that we can see a real change in Britain, I almost feel it's possible (if I don't watch or listen to today's news.)

I agree with @CookieCrumble. I believe that Clemmie is a racist and that fact that she's a midwife (so far non censured) has me staggered. Clemmie deliberately used CB. Yeah, CB is problematic, but that has no bearing on the particular issue at hand. None at all.

CookieCrumble · Jun 13, 2020

Titfer said:
Candice was violently abused by a midwife?!

By Clemmie. I really believe that a midwife posting those comments, when she knew how badly wrong a birth had gone, is an act of violence.

Miss Anne Thrope said:
Everything that's happening right now is so stressful and triggering. All the in your face stuff I endured as a teen and all the exclusion in the school playground as a mum. The stuff at work.

I’m sorry that has happened.

AND I’m sorry to be Bringing it to this space as well as it being everywhere else, it must be fucking exhausting

Aboveallelse · Jun 13, 2020

The Robert Milligan statue that was removed, I walked past it often. Barely noticed it or took note of who it was. I think plaques acknowledging history truthfully is what is required. Times were very very different then. No need to vandalise or remove historical figures. It won't erase the past or the hurt people feel.

Titfer · Jun 13, 2020

CookieCrumble said:
By Clemmie. I really believe that a midwife posting those comments, when she knew how badly wrong a birth had gone, is an act of violence.

You may believe that, but your wording is dangerous! In the context of your post it could have been taken as misleading and slanderous!

Clemmie is racist whether she believes she is or not, but the subconscious and inherent racism is there. She verbally racially abused Candice under the cover of another name.

CookieCrumble · Jun 13, 2020

Titfer said:
You may believe that, but your wording is dangerous! In the context of your post it could have been taken as misleading and slanderous!

Ok yes I appreciate that, thanks for flagging.

I Don’t really have the words to describe the seriousness of what she did though - I brushed it off before as trolling, almost fair game for putting yourself out there as an influencer. It was all delicious and exciting to read! But now I see how harmful it was - on so many levels. Violence seemed appropriate but I take your point!

EddieBeds · Jun 13, 2020

A guide to DARVO, the gaslighting response people give when they're called out

Once you know DARVO, you'll see it in every celeb statement in response to backlash.

metro.co.uk

This was posted over on Susie Verrill’s thread and thought it really highlighted how the majority of influencers respond to being called out and echoed how both Clemmie and Slymon have responded in the past (and suspect they will in the future). While it’s not a surprise, seeing it all spelt out so to speak really reinforces how little this behaviour is called out by those around them etc.

I’d like to think the influencer world is opening its eyes as much of the rest of us but given Susie’s response I fear they’ll all continue to peddle out this type of response and the huns will remain as blinkered as ever.

ETA: I can’t remember who it was who contacted FOD following the IWD post but the response they received from him was this entirely wasn’t it?

Discotits · Jun 13, 2020

I emailed the high low last year to ask if they would address the Clemmie issue and I didn’t hear a word back. Then hey have Candice on and don’t talk about it again.

lalalanded · Jun 13, 2020

Aboveallelse said:
Catching up with the last few threads.... I was one of those who defended clemmie saying she wasn't a racist. As a poc whose grandparents grew up in empire. I feel so confused and conflicted. Over the last few years, especially as my children are growing up. I feel nothing but a sense of dread towards the future. I've always convinced myself that if you work hard you can achieve in those careers full of white people, you can go and live in the country or by the coast. But as black/poc we are not welcome in those areas. I've become accustomed to the comfort of living in a mixed community in London. But I think now perhaps I've been accepting the bias and prejudice I've faced in everyday life as normal. That I, as a poc and my children are not deserving of wanting more for ourselves. I'd love to give my children a wholesome less polluted and busy life in the country /beside the coast. But these options are not available
Sorry I'm waffling... I stopped following the white middle class insta mum brigade when it hit me just how priveledged and exclusive they were. The racism is subtle and insidious. I grew up being called all sorts in the 80s. Thankfully my children have not experienced that. But they will face bias and racism in their work life from those who are priveledged. I think I'm facing up to a lot of denial I've had in regard to these issues. Because a black /poc working twice as hard still isn't good enough.
Clemmie is extremely priveledged and racist but not the only insta mum. Instagram is full to the brim of those just like her.

I don't have much to add to your excellent post except I'm sorry - it's really shit that you don't have the options that you and your children should have. And this white washing of parenthood is just disgusting. I can't bear it.

allybongo · Jun 13, 2020

He was online on the FOD account yesterday. It shows in my DMs.

lalalanded · Jun 13, 2020

Madbadsad said:
Does anyone know if Clemmie made her comments about Candice before or after she did a podcast with her?

The comments about race were wrong. As recent events are highlighting even more.

But if she made them after inviting Candice to speak on her podcast. To share her personal experience and how black women were more likely to experience this purely due to racism. And then to make those comments? That feels really low.

Perhaps Clemmie invited Candice to speak for publicity rather than a genuine desire to highlight the racism bias in maternal care?

I’m a midwife so my personal beef with Clemmie has long been how she has exploited the midwife aspect for her own gain.

I started to slowly realise how she didn’t really give a shit. I messaged her a few times to ask if she could use her platform to highlight big issues happening in Midwifery. Loss of Supervisors of midwives and Independent Midwifery. These weren’t in the Press. Naively I thought that she had a great platform to share this.

She did reply to my messages but said she wouldn’t. It seemed clear her passion wasn’t supporting women and Midwifery but rather Interiors, clothes and other superficial stuff

Wow. There's absolutely nothing about these two that don't leave me speechless. You are so right about her using her weekly shift to make a plaform for herself to receive freebies and attend premieres and nothing else. She was never about supporting women. There are SO many critical issues in midwifery. It's not just 'catching babies', it's political. Do you remember the Albany Miwives working out of King's that got shut down? What about the axing of the midwifery bursary? She could have used her platform for so much but instead she used it for free holidays. What a piece of shit she is. Sorry, but it makes me so angry.

qwerty_79 · Jun 13, 2020

Aboveallelse said:
Catching up with the last few threads.... I was one of those who defended clemmie saying she wasn't a racist. As a poc whose grandparents grew up in empire. I feel so confused and conflicted. Over the last few years, especially as my children are growing up. I feel nothing but a sense of dread towards the future. I've always convinced myself that if you work hard you can achieve in those careers full of white people, you can go and live in the country or by the coast. But as black/poc we are not welcome in those areas. I've become accustomed to the comfort of living in a mixed community in London. But I think now perhaps I've been accepting the bias and prejudice I've faced in everyday life as normal. That I, as a poc and my children are not deserving of wanting more for ourselves. I'd love to give my children a wholesome less polluted and busy life in the country /beside the coast. But these options are not available
Sorry I'm waffling... I stopped following the white middle class insta mum brigade when it hit me just how priveledged and exclusive they were. The racism is subtle and insidious. I grew up being called all sorts in the 80s. Thankfully my children have not experienced that. But they will face bias and racism in their work life from those who are priveledged. I think I'm facing up to a lot of denial I've had in regard to these issues. Because a black /poc working twice as hard still isn't good enough.
Clemmie is extremely priveledged and racist but not the only insta mum. Instagram is full to the brim of those just like her.

Not much else to say other than I’m sorry you feel you cannot give your kids a countryside / seaside lifestyle and I do see where you’re coming from (living in a seaside town myself which is rather diverse but still largely white) and sadly there are many people who are so sure of being better than others just because they’re British or white or went to certain uni or whatever entitles them... I’ve been verbally attacked for not being a Brit, not offered jobs for not being a bloke, even been looked down by my own in-laws who when came to our wedding in my home country were surprised it was all so civilised (!) and that has stuck with me and don’t want my girl to ever have to live through it. The worrying thing is I don’t think some of that even crosses people’s mind as bias or discrimination - is just the way things are. I can’t even start to comprehend what’s like to grow up being subject to that constantly (consciously or unconsciously), it makes me sad. And it makes me angry when people dish comments out like CH or others did and then take no accountability for it

Titfer · Jun 13, 2020

qwerty_79 said:
Not much else to say other than I’m sorry you feel you cannot give your kids a countryside / seaside lifestyle and I do see where you’re coming from (living in a seaside town myself which is rather diverse but still largely white) and sadly there are many people who are so sure of being better than others just because they’re British or white or went to certain uni or whatever entitles them... I’ve been verbally attacked for not being a Brit, not offered jobs for not being a bloke, even been looked down by my own in-laws who when came to our wedding in my home country were surprised it was all so civilised (!) and that has stuck with me and don’t want my girl to ever have to live through it. The worrying thing is I don’t think some of that even crosses people’s mind as bias or discrimination - is just the way things are. I can’t even start to comprehend what’s like to grow up being subject to that constantly (consciously or unconsciously), it makes me sad. And it makes me angry when people dish comments out like CH or others did and then take no accountability for it

Absolutely can't understand being on the end of xenophobia or racism but sexism is a big one for me.

I work in a predominantly male environment. Once a few years ago an older gentleman visited my work... (my dad is the boss ) he looked around as I and another female colleague stood in front of him - "is there no-one here?" We look at each other.... it appears not. Long story short, we provided him with what he required from the business.... and charged him three times the regular amount - my dad's response? "Well that's the price of sexism"

Another time, I had to remind a client to talk and discuss his requirements with me (I was answering emails by name, he insisted on using my dad's name and directed his queries to him" as I will be the one doing the work for you!

Boss's daughter privilege maybe.... but battling this and adding skin colour and racism to the mix is unfathomable

dragonsden62 · Jun 13, 2020

Do you think they will call it a day like Mrs Meldrum who has deleted all her social media accounts

Titfer · Jun 13, 2020

dragonsden62 said:
Do you think they will call it a day like Mrs Meldrum who has deleted all her social media accounts

No

Motherthreebeige · Jun 13, 2020

I imagine she viewed her ten hour shift a week or whatever it was as an odious task that had to be done so that she could keep her USP and garner all the freebies.

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