Jack Monroe #380 Hunger Hurts 2: Solar Lantern Boogaloo

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DisgruntledGoat

DisgruntledGoat

flamingsqueak said:
I'm interested in the 'JM isn't working class' discourse and I'd like to ask Fraus whether they think class is more material (ie you might come from a middle class upbringing and have whatever education credentials but no support network means you're struggling month to month on rent/groceries is working class) or cultural (ie coming from a working class background, distinct 'working class' taste preferences vs 'upper or middle class' preferences, what you spend money on, income is less important)
On twitter sometimes I see people pointing to JM's upbringing alone as proof that Jack can't be working class. I'd more say that it's because Jack has a (minor) celebrity profile, brand deals, books, is invited to talks etc. so claiming they struggle materially to a point of working class-ness is pretty baseless.
Also the Karl stuff made me so sick. Hope everyone is ok x
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Sorry I’m still behind but I very much consider class to be material.

People can attain various levels of social and cultural capital. It was previously theorised (check out Pierre Bourdieu) that taste was based strongly on classed preferences, which have a Marxist basis in the notion of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. This was before post-industrialisation and there was very much still a divide between blue and white collar work. All kinds of social factors have increased social and cultural mobility and blurred these hard lines between classes: democratising higher education in the 1960s/70s, the juxtaposition of popular culture and ‘high’ culture, politicians pushing the universalisation of culture leading to kids learning instruments at school or visiting galleries, and most obviously the internet allowing us access to all kinds of art and thus allowing us to find things we love that aren’t contingent on our parents’ tastes or local trends.

While both social and cultural capital are important, and Jack does indeed have them through her upbringing of ballet and grammar school, what I feel is the thing that makes one securely middle class is the comfort of generational wealth. It’s a security blanket which makes people move through the world differently. Jack will never have struggled, or wanted, or been cold or hungry, or opened the door to bailiffs at her parents’ home and it was never necessary for her to go through that.

If I’m permitted a me-rail to illustrate what I mean: my family were historically dockers, my more recent family are what you’d describe as “underclass”, not in work. I’m grammar school educated, almost finished a PhD, worked in two extremely middle class sectors and have high levels of social and cultural capital due to my mum benefitting from free HE in the 70s. She owns a cheap home but has remortgaged multiple times and thus still paying aged 68. Nobody else in my family has owned property and there has never been any financial fallback (hence the remortgaging) and thus it was scary and tit a lot of the time. Bailiffs, having no heating, etc. However I’m always wary of calling myself working class because I know I have extraordinary levels of social and cultural capital through various luck and privilege. Nonetheless, I’m not middle class and I will almost certainly never own a home.

My friends are nearly all grammar educated and have at least one degree. They nearly all work in less obviously middle class sectors. Very few of them indulge in as many “cultured” leisure activities as I do. However they all - without exception - own homes which they were helped out with through their parents inheriting their grandparents’ estates. In turn, when their parents die, they’ll be able to pay off their mortgages and either be able to give up work young, or seriously reduce their hours. The generational wealth afford them all kinds of options and freedoms at various stages of their lives. Jack is very much in this boat, no matter how much she contests it. If she hadn’t been such a fuckup Big Dave would’ve almost certainly helped her out on a deposit.

This - to me - is why class is more material. These social factors are extremely variable. The security that money can bring is what affords opportunity, the ability to take risks, international mobility to move abroad etc. IMO that is much more permanent and I believe more relevant when defining class.

If you can’t be fucked to read all that: Jack is middle class whether you define it socially, culturally, or economically.


OwlRightsReserved said:
I'd say class in the UK is an intersection of social, cultural and economic factors.

The class system as we understand it is a post-Victorian construction that then evolved significantly with the two world wars. Historically, upper class were aristocrats and landed gentry; middle class were the professions (doctor, lawyer, dentist, academic etc.) or clergy; working class were those who were of a trade, or in manual labour etc.

This is now obviously different. For example, there are plenty of upper class (in the traditional sense) who are cash poor but asset rich; while there are plenty of traditionally working class (e.g. a plumber) who now might earn more than an early-career researcher at a university, which would traditionally be middle class.

So, it's not purely economic; nor is it purely political - working class people, for example, were fundamental to the movement for universal suffrage, the labour and union movements etc. in the same way that conservative politics have typically been the bastion of the middle and upper classes, but shifts occur.

I'd argue instead that class in the UK nowadays is about our relationship to power, and can be thought of more as a series of concentric circles than it is an up-and-down hierarchy.

Those at the centre hold the power. The circle is small, and the barriers around it are high. You need money to get there, certainly, but money isn't everything. You also need cultural capital: the right way of talking, the right way of dressing, the references to the right schools or cultural touchstones; the right connections. The central circle is small because it is beneficial to those in it for it to remain small.

The next circle out is one which is power-adjacent. It may be that a lack of money, or a lack of another type of cultural capital prevents this circle from holding power, but they benefit from a close proximity to power. These are your Hooray Henrys and I'm Alright Jacks. They are largely protected from things like the cost of living crisis because of their wealth and status, and so on.

And so it continues: it's not necessarily just three circles for upper-middle-working classes; but the further away from the centre you get, the less power and the less cultural capital you have.

Those in the periphery have the least access to power, despite being the largest group. And that's the paradox of class in the UK: the majority of people hold the minority of power.

The barriers between the levels become easier to navigate the further out from the centre you go; e.g. someone out on the periphery might move one ring further towards the centre when they have a steady income etc. but as soon as they lose their job, can't keep up with mortgage payments etc. then they're right back out at the periphery. They have no cultural capital to protect them from economic circumstances, no generational wealth to call upon etc.

I don't think Jack could ever call herself someone who's out there on the periphery. She has cultural capital in her upbringing, sure, but also in the life she's led as an adult: the connections made in being at the Groucho. The dinner parties supposedly cooking for Mary Portas. Being in a relationship with Leggy and LJC. Understanding the language of the media, being able to navigate the complexities of it. Even just being able to say "oh, this is what happens in a select committee" or "my MP pals say I should stand!"

Whatever you call it (working class/periphery/something else), I just don't think Jack can ever say that she's at the edges of power.
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Ok wait this is loads better than what I said, ignore me. This is why I usually always grunk before posting
 
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Griftymcgriftface

Griftymcgriftface

Sketchy said:
I bet Monroe nearly tit herself when she saw all those replies supporting Karl. Pity Karl wasn't a Tattler; after all that, I think he could say just about anything to her now on Twitter and she'd just have to suck it up.

(Thanks to these threads and JM's Twitter this past few days, my brain is well & truly frazzled. I spent a good few minutes searching for my specs today only to discover I was already wearing them - NOT on top of my head, but on my face - in front of my eyes - where specs should be.) :rolleyes:

Hope you're all taking care of your kind and precious hearts. ;) God she's so sickly sweet sometimes.
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The thing is Karl has interacted with her previously on twitter. I’m surprised she wasn’t aware of him prior.
 
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SeeleyBooth

SeeleyBooth

I think I'd wear all black (in honour of when she dyed all her clothes), holding a placard..

What happens in Dordrecht, stays in Dordrecht
 
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That Forensic Man

That Forensic Man

hooplifehero said:
View attachment 1539084
Grunking and this is my first screenshot but I think this is bogus. I have done the same kind of interviews for media including BBC 🔺 and they send a car for you, there and back, if you ask. Whenever I've had to make my own way it's been refunded.
Also, 2-4 hours' prep? I don't like to subject myself to Jack on TV but anyone who watched or listened to her recent interviews - did what she said take 2-4 hours of preparation time? Admin? Research?

It's a long drive but she could do any 'research' in the car or on the train if she needed to.

Also, NBH (media parlance) is in Manchester. Why wouldn't they invite Jack to BROADCASTING HOUSE, in London? Why tell someone in Southend to travel to Manchester for a ten minute segment?

A return from Southend to Manchester is £112, cheapest price. WHYYYY would anyone pay that for a journey of about 8 hours (not 6) for a payment of £50?

I think she's just making this up as she goes along. But 'make it make sense'.

edited to add wtf, 'New Broadcasting House' was demolished in 2012, what is she even talking about?

Maybe I'm working this out wrong. Am I gaslighting myself? You try to enter Jack logic and the world goes crazy.

View attachment 1539103View attachment 1539104
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This is simply one of her (rare!) lacks of due diligence, she reviewed BBC Broadcasting House (London) 2 years ago per Google. Jack's also been to BBC Essex.

1661885604231.png


Might just be me but leaving a review for somewhere you went to (notionally) work seems very odd, I mean who gives a tit what the Google review score is for BBC Broadcasting House or the Pan Macmillan offices or whatever. Seems kiss arsey which makes me think if she'd been to other offices further afield she'd have left reviews, which she hasn't. Only the ones in London and Essex.
Ginger Studios (photography studio)
21 Perseverance Works (photography studio)
BBC Broadcasting House
talkRADIO
ITN Productions
Pan Macmillan
ON-Broadcast Communications (PR firm)
United Agents LLP (talent agency)
The Guardian
WeWork - Office Space & Coworking
BBC Essex
 
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StudleyRoger

StudleyRoger

Mrs Peel said:
If it's true that she failed the 11 plus and her Dad somehow got her a place at grammar school then that screams middle class to me. I don't think a working class kid would get that privilege.

But then again, at this point I don't know which 11 plus story is correct because it seems there are quite few different versions.
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Re Jack passing/not passing the 11+ (public Facebook post)

Screenshot_20220830-195703_Facebook.jpg
 
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Just Lou

Just Lou

ExDeveloper said:
For some reason I had assumed the CCJ' she talks about would be from a long time ago.

And I can also confirm that the address attached to this is most definitely not "a shi77y bungalow"...
Although the former address does show as a dormer bungalow.

(it's public domain information - but obviously I'm not sharing exact details)
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I had to read that about ten times to check the date.
 
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P

Pimpinella

BinkerTold said:
how the working class feel about poverty tourism, how patronising the middle class 'do gooders' can be and also the pride and dignity that runs through working class communities.
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Exactly this. A few years ago I got involved in setting up a campaign to help save a building in a very working class neighbourhood near the centre of a city. I helped set it up and once established said that it was time for me to take a back seat. The woman in charge who was letting power seep into her head demanded to know why! I said that (a) it wasn't my building (b) although I had connections to the building it was not as much as the community (c) it was their area not mine (other side of town to me) and therefore it was for their passions and I would never be able to replicate that. I think she thought I was being difficult but I felt that. It was their passion, their building, their history. Not mine. Once they were galvanised my job was done. Failed in the end as she stayed in charge and it became an ego thing....
 
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P

Pimpinella

ExDeveloper said:
For some reason I had assumed the CCJ' she talks about would be from a long time ago.

And I can also confirm that the address attached to this is most definitely not "a shi77y bungalow"...
Although the former address does show as a dormer bungalow.

(it's public domain information - but obviously I'm not sharing exact details)
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£507? Surely a ring would have paid for that....
 
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Emmapism

Emmapism

Again, what are we jealous of? A woman claiming a career she allegedly makes no money from? A rampant Twitter addiction? Booty calls at 3am with a burger thrown in?

 
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MavisBeacon

MavisBeacon

VeniVidiVicki said:
Excellent username and excellent post @MavisBeacon

As a slight addendum, when you have a book/product to flog (Jack is arguably the product here in the absence of her new book), free airtime is money. Exposure is profile raising. The bigger profile you have > the more opportunities come your way > the more people buy your next book/watch your next collab/read your interview.

One of my friends is an author. She does tours, she does endless interview, she chats nicely to her fans on SM. She doesn’t get paid for any of that bar expenses because she is getting a higher profile, meaning she sells more books.

The fact that Jack thinks she should be paid for deigning to grace Today or LBC or whatever with her appearance shows to me that she fundamentally misunderstands the relationship between her wanting to sell her stuff and the media. Effectively, she thinks she should be treated like a celebrity whose mere presence gives kudos to the programme she’s on.

Spoiler: it doesn’t.
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Exactly this. There is a balance to be had between exposure, paid work, plugging etc but it is all part of the job and, if done well, all helps to support your personal brand and boost sales. Podcasts are actually really good for this - you get to have good chats about your thing. BUT you need to have charisma, expertise and be generally nice and easy to work with in order to capitalise on it.
 
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