Gender Discussion #7

[judgejohndeed]

Is anyone else getting tired of just...hearing about sex and gender all the time anyway? I'm not talking about the specific issues we discuss on here, but you know, when I go onto a Zoom or Teams meeting and someone has got pronouns in their NAME I'm just thinking God, not this again. I really don't care if you're male, female, or other - it's got sweet FA to do with work, and we're here to discuss work, not your gender or sex. Who actually cares? It's too much, I'm bored of it.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I don’t tend to read the JM threads any more, as JM is just an exhausting attention seeker and the threads move too fast for me now. She’s like Jameela Jamil, likes to cause a pile-on in Twitter.

OJ has such a smug face too.

Robert Webb (Peep Show) is getting some flack for comments he made about Mermaids: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...bb-transgender-charity-mermaids-b1831739.html

At the time of his controversial tweet, Webb had defended himself, saying: “Accusing me of picking on children is dishonest and low. I was different, as was my wife. I was a ‘queer’, she was a ‘tomboy’. It turned out we were non-gender-conforming children. Many kids like us turn out to be gay. Others don’t.

“A tiny minority have dysphoria. That’s a medical condition and those children deserve respect, love, support and counselling. But telling all kids like me & Abbie that we were born into the wrong body & therefore need a lifetime of medication… that’s just wrong.”

Spot on. It's so bizarre that a statement like that is now considered as being on the 'wrong side of history.'

 

[Libertine1975]

I wish a transwomen who claims to have periods was at my house today to see the bloody mess in my bathroom. I get large blood clots and had basically filled two night time pads within three hours. I'm so glad I was WFH today so I could shower my legs off.

Have no problem with transwomen who are respectful but frankly they can fuck off when they say they have periods. They don't have the worry that they might leak everywhere when they go out. They don't feel dirty at work because you don't feel properly clean. They don't worry that people can smell the blood on them. They don't need to.worry about coughing or sneezing incase a big blood clot comes out and floods their sanitary towel. They aren't risking TSS using tampons.

Tempted to use the photos I have taken today (for when I can get a Dr's appointment), open a twitter account and post the photos in response to those who claim they get a fucking period.

(Sorry, hormonal, angry, uncomfortable and pissed off from my actual female body and hormones putting me through this shit monthly - I say monthly try more like 3 weekly...)

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

This is what really pisses me off when people refer to their babies as ‘they’ and pretend they don’t care what the sex is. If trans people are a minority then the overwhelming likelihood is that your child will be perfectly happy being called whatever pronouns match their sex, you really don’t have to start messing your kids up before they’re even here.

But then they wouldn't get social media kudos for being 'open-minded.'

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's more open-minded to have a young son who likes barbies and Disney and playing dress-up, who you let have his hobbies, than it is to tell him those things make him a girl.

 

[sheleg]

So by saying biological sex is real, I am as bad as a... holocaust denier? As a Jewish woman, I find that fucking horrifying.

 

[Falkor]

That graphic makes me so cross. I haven't worn a skirt or dress in years, I drive a tractor and a quad bike, I farm sheep and I rip houses to pieces and rebuild them. I'd say that's probably challenging the traditional UK gender role of a woman, so does that make me trans too?

 

[skvallertant]

I'm a semi-frequent poster on this thread, and I feel quite conflicted about the whole thing. On the one hand, I want to support genuine trans people, but on the other hand, I think gender ideology is bullshit and I do believe it's harmful, particularly to vulnerable young people, and women and girls. It's hard to express your feelings around such a volatile (thanks to TRAs) issue.

With regards to the omnipresent bathroom self-cert issue, I was walking home from work today and was approached by a strange man (by which I of course mean a man who I don't know). All the way home I was looking behind me. I'm not a vulnerable woman, or I at least don't see myself as such, but that encounter really put me on edge. I don't know if it makes sense, but it's stuff like this that makes me shocked that the issue of self cert is even being entertained. To be scared of walking alone in broad daylight isn't right and it's an experience that I would argue is almost unique to women, girls and maybe even children/teenagers? Imagine being cornered in that way in a bathroom...

I'm so saddened and angered about the above news about a women's shelter appointing a man as their ceo (or wherever title it was). How is that okay? If this isn't peaking people, what will?

Edit sorry for any incoherence. This thread is literally the only place I can let it out.

 

[Aquamarina]

Thought I’d start the new thread. Hope I’ve done it right! It’s great seeing the ratio that Owen Jones is still getting after his incredibly crass tweet yesterday. Isn’t it funny how TWAW until these men decide they want a baby? Surely one of his trans women can give him a baby? Oh wait... no they fucking can’t because a trans woman is a man!

 

[Vee6]

Now that is fucking terrifying

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

For me, I wouldn't be willing to sleep with a transwoman who had reassignment surgery. Despite being a vagina fetishist I'm attracted to 'female-people' as a whole person - though it's unlikely I'd be interested if they went the full way - I'd be more willing to sleep with a transman who had surgery than a transwoman who had surgery because the transman is female.

I think I find it easier to brush off accusations of transphobia because it took me so long to come to terms with my sexuality. I'm from a homophobic family and I didn't come out until my 30s so I spent two decades naval gazing and trying to convince myself that I could like males if I just tried/prayed/wished hard enough. So I know that it just isn't possible for me and I know that my limits are 100% fixed on this matter.

I think that a lot of straight women haven't thought about their sexuality so in-depth so it would be harder to them to ignore accusations of transphobia.

I think that a lot of women who want to consider themselves woke might also feel guilty about being straight (despite it obviously not being something anyone should ever feel guilty about) and wouldn't want to say no in case they make themselves look like one of these 'evil cishets' that people throw around as an insult.

I can accept that might be 'transphobic' but I think you are then back into arguments around what is more important - allowing people to act on -phobic or -ist attractions so that they are not unduly induced into sleeping with someone, or protecting some people from discrimination.

For me consent is the most important thing in the world regarding sex - 97% (I think that's the statistic, might be slightly off) of women have zero interest in me from the get go and of the 3% who theoretically could be interested there will be loads of people who aren't interested because of my physical appearance or personality or the simple fact that they're happily partnered up already.

I can't think of anything worse than going up to a straight woman I find attractive and saying "oi, if you don't have sex with me you're a homophobe and I'll tell all your friends you're homophobic and I'll tweet your manager and tell them you're homophobic and I'll put your name online and get all my friends to tell everyone they know that you're homophobic. So, your place or mine?" - it's ridiculous! I wouldn't dream of putting someone in a position where they felt unhappy and I also wouldn't want pity/fear sex from them. It would be rubbish for both of us.

 

[2020two]

There's an article in the mail today being discussed on mumsnet.

4 yr old female twin wants to be like her brother and couldn't understand why she was being forced to wear pink and pigtails. Now the parents say the child is trans and have got her on the tavistock list.

All the photos show they gendered their kids from the offset.

The child has said things like 'I'm a boy' but of course she is because she wants to play with trucks and have short hair in an environment where clearly the parents have set expectations for how girls behave and how boys behave.

I fucking hate this. We are literally going backwards. I have boy/girl twins, they share all of their toys. My son likes pushing a dolly pram around, my daughter much prefers cars. They're still a boy and a girl. Nursery is a free for all for toys and they can play with whatever the hell they like, they don't know that toys are "gendered" they're toddlers. What happened to stepping away from the idea that girls only like Barbie's and pink and can't like trucks and tractors. My son has blue & pink clothes, my daughter has blue & pink clothes. Simple.

I don't believe a 4 year old child can turn around and say they're the other gender without the parent seriously pushing the idea on them. It's vile.

 

[LaLa247]

I’ve been so nervous to post on this thread as I still feel quite ill informed and like I wouldn’t have anything of value to contribute (and quite honestly the generation I’m in/the circles I’m in I feel you’re labelled the devil incarnate to even question these things which has led me to a lot of self doubt, I’m reading gender critical points and arguments that seem nothing but well reasoned and make absolute sense to me and yet I’m being told to agree with any of it makes me an awful bigoted person, and I’ve even questioned if I am an awful person at times)

Just regarding the insta post, I wonder if these people who comment are shocked when they get a calm and well reasoned but firm response? I think a lot of these people are used to brands/celebs/accounts bending over backward to avoid of any accusation of any ‘-phobia’ they’ve never had to explain there viewpoint beyond ‘I’m offended’

Additionally I absolutely hate when women who have had hysterectomies are used as pawns in the argument, before any of these gender issues become mainstream were ANY women without a womb trying to get language changed?

 

[skvallertant]

Sorry for the excessive posting, but I just watched a video about transactivism and a transwoman said that lots of gender critical arguments don't talk about transmen and that transmen need to speak up.

How can they be so fucking tone deaf to ignore the fact that transmen have grown up as "women", they've been told to shut up and sit down. I'm so sick of this shit.

The body shop post earlier just boiled my blood. How fucking dare they say that "heavy discharge" from a "neo vagina" is anything close to a period. That train of thought alone proves that they're not women. Women pay money for products just to "soak up" their menstrual blood. It's really expensive and it's dangerous. Even pads can cause TSS. Women have to take days off work because of heavy bleeding. Women bleed through their clothes and are shrugged off by health professionals. Women lie on their bathroom floor in pain for 10 days per month. Your frankenvag isn't comparable.

Sorry for the (bad joke) hysteria, but I'm so done with this. How are people falling for this?

I think that genuine trans women stand with us
But these absolute morons who shout "hate" all the time... How are they being taken seriously?

 

[Gairlfb]

Relating to some of the things brought up in this thread, I went to a pub for lunch today (first time in six or so months!), had a lovely time but one thing that irked me was the toilets - there were male ones and then ‘gender neutral’ ones. The ‘gender neutral’ ones clearly had previously been ‘female’ but just had a printed out sign placed over the door. I was there with four male friends and happened to mention it, they admitted they did notice the signage but hadn’t thought much of it until I pointed out that meant there weren’t actually any ‘female’ toilets at all. I found it really weird and I think it was my first instance of real world female erasure! I’m trying to decide if I want to contact the pub to flag this to them, but I am really put off by what I assume would be a response from them to me basically saying this is a transphobic feeling or something. Bleurgh. Sorry, a bit of a ramble but just felt like this thread was a place I knew my thoughts wouldn’t be lost, and I was pretty jarred to have something like this pop up literally on my first post-lockdown venture anywhere!

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Body Shop are being boycotted by me in future.

WOMEN have periods.

WOMEN have uteruses and wombs and vaginas.

TRANS WOMEN have some of these things by default but it is not the same. I am not going to be eroded out of history by a minority who seem insistent on making us play second fiddle to them. I am so angry because I can't post any of my views on social media. Well, I could, but it would be a pile-on and it just isn't worth it.

Genuine gender dysphoria must be very distressing and transsexuals deserve support and treatment. But women are women and are being eroded out of history and having their medical treatments put on the back burner just because a tiny minority of men they identify as women and therefore need mastectomies that should be saved for women as part of cancer treatment.

Part of the problem is that a lot of 'anti trans' proponents are clumsy and outspoken - a la Julie Burchill, and don't do the cause any good.

But if trans women are women why aren't they satisfied to be referred to as women and mothers and not 'birth carriers?' The whole thing is utterly baffling.

 

[Ruby’s mum]

I was speaking to a friend recently who trained as a psychiatric nurse. She said one of the first rules she was taught was never to go along with a patient’s delusion. Today we have medical professionals going along with and actively encouraging delusions and criticising anyone who goes against them. Madness

 

[emmer_moans]

Sigh. The Body Shop being dicks. Again

I’m so angry about this - there are hundreds of millions of women in India and they choose a bloke to talk about period shame. It’s so messed up. I shall be boycotting BS for life. What IS it with self-ID’ing “transwomen” wanting to speak for things they have never and will never experience? The DELUSION! Argh!

 

[maytoseptember]

Anyone have recommendations for a non-bigoted period tracker that doesn’t assume that you bleed?

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The truth about trans

If you read a newspaper, go on the internet, or turn on the TV, you may well have seen some shocking headlines about trans people lately. It’s fine if you don’t feel like you know very much about trans people – lots of people don’t. But it’s important to know that some myths and...

www.stonewall.org.uk

... and people wonder why the LGB Alliance was founded...



This bit is also dreadful...

Gah this annoys me. I'm sorry but I couldn't give a bollocks about what a transwoman has to say on womens issues. There is nothing they can teach us. Nothing. Why can't they accept they have our own challenges and they have theirs? We are not one and the same

 

[judgejohndeed]

I swear I am never going to understand this perspective that it’s better to give children body altering drugs that you don’t know the long term effects of than just let them play with cars? Genuinely I cannot get it through my head why any reasonable sensible parent would think that’s best at all