UK Politics #7

[monga]

Bizarre ,as it’s the national flag and has been for a very long time.

 

[Miss Begotten]

Apparently there was a survey that 12.5% of Labour voters think the flag is racist, which is why that's been mentioned.

But isn’t that mostly because the flag has been hijacked by racist knuckleheads, who fly it outside their houses and have it all over their social media feeds next to pictures of bulldogs and that Farage twit.

 

[L3moning]

But isn’t that mostly because the flag has been hijacked by racist knuckleheads, who fly it outside their houses and have it all over their social media feeds next to pictures of bulldogs and that Farage twit.

I would imagine so.

 

[Miss Begotten]

Well I suppose this makes a refreshing change from the usual Tory scandals about drugs, rent boys and tractor porn.
Is there a single Tory that isn’t as dodgy as hell?

Tory researcher charged with spying for China

A second man was also charged with breaching the Official Secrets Act.

metro.co.uk

 

[Moth]

I guess it varies by region ? NI has a very high proportion of disability claimants also a high proportion of fraudulent claims, including a political figure that had his claim publicly questioned…There’s been 5 prosecutions in my small area alone ( covering three streets) two from the same family, one having to pay back £33,000 the other £75,000 for over exaggerating their disability.

Maskey gives up keys to disabled vehicle

SINN Fein's Alex Maskey has returned a Motability car and withdrawn from the scheme aimed at the disabled, it was confirmed today.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Hmm not sure that the 'evidence' of 3 streets where you live is the most reliable basis to make a general claim that 'lots' of people are making fraudulent claims for benefits by lying about the nature of their health conditions. I note that nothing in the article you attached suggested that anybody had obtained a Motability car by lying about their health conditions.

Overall in 2022- 2023, benefit overpayments due to fraud equated to 2.7% of the total benefit expenditure. The benefits most commonly related to health conditions are PIP, DLA, Attendance Allowance, ESA and Universal Credit. In 2022 / 2023 the overpayments as a percentage of expenditure due to fraud were:

PIP - 0.2%
DLA - 0.5%
AA - 0%
ESA - 1.5%

Overpayments of Universal Credit equated to 11.5% of total expenditure. The main identified reasons for overpayment were failure to disclose employment / earnings, failure to declare other income / capital / savings, living with a partner but nothing linked to lying about health conditions that was significant enough to figure in the analysis.

In almost every category benefit fraud in 2022 / 2023 was lower than in 2021 / 2022.

It is of course worth mentioning that in the long term none of these benefits are paid on the basis of a sick / fit note or other evidence from a GP. Assessments to determine eligibility for the benefits are all carried out by 'health professionals' employed by private companies such as Atos, Capita, Maximus and Ingeos contracted to the DWP and that the decision on whether a benefit is awarded is made by a DWP employee. This makes Sunak's diatribe about the 'sick note culture' and the attack on the integrity of GPs all the more difficult to understand except of course that he was aiming to stoke more uninformed, pernicious attacks on benefit claimants.

 

[monga]

Hmm not sure that the 'evidence' of 3 streets where you live is the most reliable basis to make a general claim that 'lots' of people are making fraudulent claims for benefits by lying about the nature of their health conditions. I note that nothing in the article you attached suggested that anybody had obtained a Motability car by lying about their health conditions.

Overall in 2022- 2023, benefit overpayments due to fraud equated to 2.7% of the total benefit expenditure. The benefits most commonly related to health conditions are PIP, DLA, Attendance Allowance, ESA and Universal Credit. In 2022 / 2023 the overpayments as a percentage of expenditure due to fraud were:

PIP - 0.2%
DLA - 0.5%
AA - 0%
ESA - 1.5%

Overpayments of Universal Credit equated to 11.5% of total expenditure. The main identified reasons for overpayment were failure to disclose employment / earnings, failure to declare other income / capital / savings, living with a partner but nothing linked to lying about health conditions that was significant enough to figure in the analysis.

In almost every category benefit fraud in 2022 / 2023 was lower than in 2021 / 2022.

It is of course worth mentioning that in the long term none of these benefits are paid on the basis of a sick / fit note or other evidence from a GP. Assessments to determine eligibility for the benefits are all carried out by 'health professionals' employed by private companies such as Atos, Capita, Maximus and Ingeos contracted to the DWP and that the decision on whether a benefit is awarded is made by a DWP employee. This makes Sunak's diatribe about the 'sick note culture' and the attack on the integrity of GPs all the more difficult to understand except of course that he was aiming to stoke more uninformed, pernicious attacks on benefit claimants.

It’s not my assumption based on three streets it a well known fact here, even brought up in the assembly the motability scheme was under review due to fraudulent claims.

 

[Piff paff puff]

It’s not my assumption based on three streets it a well known fact here, even brought up in the assembly the motability scheme was under review due to fraudulent claims.

Very sad! I'm a designated driver for someone who is genuinely disabled and having corresponded with motability, they are such nice people, from the call handlers, perks they give you, anything you need, they are always there for you. It's a lifeline for people. I never thought for a minute that someone would actually con a charity!

 

[Moth]

But isn’t that mostly because the flag has been hijacked by racist knuckleheads, who fly it outside their houses and have it all over their social media feeds next to pictures of bulldogs and that Farage twit.

For example, plenty of flags here ...


---

It’s not my assumption based on three streets it a well known fact here, even brought up in the assembly the motability scheme was under review due to fraudulent claims.

I never find claims based on what 'everybody knows' to be particularly persuasive

And as I pointed out nothing in the article that you attached suggests that it has anything to do with people lying about their health conditions which was the point of your post. It doesn't appear to suggest that the people leasing the cars are not entitled to the benefit that they can then use to get a Motability car. Instead it suggests that the cars are being 'misused' which Motability defines as:

• Not using it for the disabled person’s benefit
• You or someone else driving without insurance or while you’re banned
• Using it in a criminal act
• Lending, sub-leasing or selling it
• Using it for business reasons we haven’t agreed with you, like as a taxi or for deliveries
• Not taking good care of it

Misusing the car as described is not benefit or any other kind of fraud. It is simple breaching the conditions of the lease for which the 'punishment' is termination of the lease, refusal to provide another vehicle and possibly being billed for damage or loss of value.

 

[monga]

For example, plenty of flags here ...


---


I never find claims based on what 'everybody knows' to be particularly persuasive

And as I pointed out nothing in the article that you attached suggests that it has anything to do with people lying about their health conditions which was the point of your post. It doesn't appear to suggest that the people leasing the cars are not entitled to the benefit that they can then use to get a Motability car. Instead it suggests that the cars are being 'misused' which Motability defines as:

• Not using it for the disabled person’s benefit
• You or someone else driving without insurance or while you’re banned
• Using it in a criminal act
• Lending, sub-leasing or selling it
• Using it for business reasons we haven’t agreed with you, like as a taxi or for deliveries
• Not taking good care of it

Misusing the car as described is not benefit or any other kind of fraud. It is simple breaching the conditions of the lease for which the 'punishment' is termination of the lease, refusal to provide another vehicle and possibly being billed for damage or loss of value.

If it’s not being used for the purpose intended then it’s fraud, you can call it what you like I’d doubt drug running and taxiing falls under the terms of use.

 

[Blueblue123]

But isn’t that mostly because the flag has been hijacked by racist knuckleheads, who fly it outside their houses and have it all over their social media feeds next to pictures of bulldogs and that Farage twit.

Back in the day, if you were a non white person passing through an area where people hung the flags outside their houses, that was basically a sign/warning that you'd get chased, egged or attacked.

So for some people it is a literal indicator that racists are around.

Saying that, I'm not sure what purpose it serves to ask the question of whether the flag represents racism to some people.

It's the flag of a country, that can't be changed. Time would be better spent actually tackling racism.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

Apparently there was a survey that 12.5% of Labour voters think the flag is racist, which is why that's been mentioned.

I suppose 87.5% of Labour voters don't think the flag is racist has quite the same effect.

 

[monga]

The Rwanda Hokey Cokey is expected to last till midnight will the old boys be able to stay awake till then

---
Someone looks like they need

a top up

 

[thegirlscout]

The Rwanda bill got through.

 

[Ndrangheta]

The Rwanda bill got through.

Well, that's the end of channel crossings then. That's global migration solved. YAY FOR RISHI!

 

[Moth]

What a strange (and quite pointless) question to ask people.

Talking of "strange (and quite pointless)" the survey about 'flags' was undertaken by Conservative peer and noted 'non-dom' tax-exile Lord Ashcroft (of Belize) and the specific detail about Labour supporters attitudes to The St George Cross picked up by The Daily Mail as evidence of Keir Starmer's 'patriotism problem'.

 

[Ndrangheta]

Talking of "strange (and quite pointless)" the survey about 'flags' was undertaken by Conservative peer and noted 'non-dom' tax-exile Lord Ashcroft (of Belize) and the specific detail about Labour supporters attitudes to The St George Cross picked up by The Daily Mail as evidence of Keir Starmer's 'patriotism problem'.

Surveys, questionaires, polls. Just pointless shite the media can use to fill some airtime or a few pages in whichever rag they are selling.

 

[JaynieDay]

How many is 'lots'? What proportion of all claims are for "illnesses they don't have or over exaggerate their disability"? Where do I find those numbers?

Hi there, new to this thread (usually I’m found on the Katie Price threads).

The amount of fraudulent disability claimants is 3.5% of all disability claims. So yeah doesn’t make a difference to the economy when you consider how much Starbucks and Amazon cheat the system out of by not paying their taxes and then HMRC end up negotiating the amount owed to less than 20% of the tax bill. But it’s cheaper and easier to demonize the disabled. It’s about punching down. Make the poor working class feel better by giving them a target of people who can’t fight back, then you don’t see the other problems. I can’t believe people still fall for that tit personally.

As for Russia and Putin, Putin wants to go down in the history books as the leader who put the Russian Empire back together. That’s why Ukraine, it’s the heart of old Russia, particularly Kiev. He’s been saying this stuff for ages, Russia has been diminished since the fall of the USSR, it lost so many countries and Putin hates it. He wants the great Russia during the times of the USSR. He thought it would be easy to take Ukraine back, due to faulty intel from corrupt agents. He was informed that there were plenty of people in Ukraine, outside of the Donbas and Donetsk region who held the dream of being Russian again. The agents were getting money from Putin to “arm the Ukrainian dissidents”, he was falsely informed that the dissidents were being armed and would assist the Russian army in their efforts. The agents were sending false information to pocket the money, but that is why Putin thought the invasion would take 3 days, he thought there were plenty of Ukrainian supporters who would aid the Russian military. Worked out well yeah? He’s also said there is no Russia without Putin, so the nuclear threat is real he’s a dying old man who would happily destroy the world on his way out. Personally I’m hoping he gets Covid and succumbs to the unique Russian symptom of Covid by falling out of a window.

 

[monga]

Hi there, new to this thread (usually I’m found on the Katie Price threads).

The amount of fraudulent disability claimants is 3.5% of all disability claims. So yeah doesn’t make a difference to the economy when you consider how much Starbucks and Amazon cheat the system out of by not paying their taxes and then HMRC end up negotiating the amount owed to less than 20% of the tax bill. But it’s cheaper and easier to demonize the disabled. It’s about punching down. Make the poor working class feel better by giving them a target of people who can’t fight back, then you don’t see the other problems. I can’t believe people still fall for that tit personally.

As for Russia and Putin, Putin wants to go down in the history books as the leader who put the Russian Empire back together. That’s why Ukraine, it’s the heart of old Russia, particularly Kiev. He’s been saying this stuff for ages, Russia has been diminished since the fall of the USSR, it lost so many countries and Putin hates it. He wants the great Russia during the times of the USSR. He thought it would be easy to take Ukraine back, due to faulty intel from corrupt agents. He was informed that there were plenty of people in Ukraine, outside of the Donbas and Donetsk region who held the dream of being Russian again. The agents were getting money from Putin to “arm the Ukrainian dissidents”, he was falsely informed that the dissidents were being armed and would assist the Russian army in their efforts. The agents were sending false information to pocket the money, but that is why Putin thought the invasion would take 3 days, he thought there were plenty of Ukrainian supporters who would aid the Russian military. Worked out well yeah? He’s also said there is no Russia without Putin, so the nuclear threat is real he’s a dying old man who would happily destroy the world on his way out. Personally I’m hoping he gets Covid and succumbs to the unique Russian symptom of Covid by falling out of a window.

So why does he want to include Europe in that? We’re not interested in Russian traditions / sovereignty , we don’t share his values.

 

[JaynieDay]

So why does he want to include Europe in that? We’re not interested in Russian traditions / sovereignty , we don’t share his values.

Pretty much all of Europe are a member states of NATO, it has been encroaching on his territory, it puts a stop to his expansionist plans. He is angry that many former USSR countries are now NATO members, Ukraine isn’t a member state he could invade Ukraine without triggering a NATO response. He has been careful to avoid NATO countries, it triggers a world war with the West. That’s also why no other country’s military has assisted Ukraine so far. It literally triggers World War 3. There was a previous agreement with NATO that it wouldn’t admit certain countries due to prior ties with Russia, it broke that agreement. Putin is pissed off, and has been after Ukraine since 2014.

 

[monga]

Pretty much all of Europe are a member states of NATO, it has been encroaching on his territory, it puts a stop to his expansionist plans. He is angry that many former USSR countries are now NATO members, Ukraine isn’t a member state he could invade Ukraine without triggering a NATO response. He has been careful to avoid NATO countries, it triggers a world war with the West. That’s also why no other country’s military has assisted Ukraine so far. It literally triggers World War 3. There was a previous agreement with NATO that it wouldn’t admit certain countries due to prior ties with Russia, it broke that agreement. Putin is pissed off, and has been after Ukraine since 2014.

Ukraine are literally being propped up by the US and NATO it’s not a secret, do you think Vlad is blind to it UK would be reliant on the home guard by this stage, the armed forces have been in steady decline for years.