The Royal Family #30

[Onetwofour]

This article about the RF and the press and how Harry oversimplifies it is quite interesting: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...en-as-straightforward-as-harry-says-c6ttcp7kq

A few excerpts:

"According to Harry and Meghan, the media — and really the tabloids — hounded them out of Britain. Yet the picture the Sussexes paint of the relationship between the royal family and newspapers is over-simplistic, often out-dated and, occasionally, simply incorrect. Harry also conflates separate entities: the paparazzi with invited photographers; British newspapers with the foreign press; the mainstream media with social media."

"Harry talks about the media as though it is a single, dastardly organisation, but the Sussexes do engage with the industry — on their terms.
The documentary also shows that Harry misunderstands how the royal rota works. He calls the pack of royal correspondents “just an extended PR arm of the royal family”. As a former aide said: “If only it were — that would have made our lives a lot easier.” Royal journalists point out that they wouldn’t get any requests for corrections or complaints from Buckingham Palace, Clarence House and Kensington Palace if they were simply mouthpieces of the royal family. Yet Harry simultaneously complains that these journalists have too much power: “All royal news goes through the filter of the newspapers on the royal rota. It all comes down to control: this family is ours to exploit.”

It doesn't diminish the problematic aspects of the tabloids but if Harry wants to make a point about them, he should at least be factual - but I guess it's not enough dramatic.

 

[Great_Kate]

To me using the phrase niggling is no different to me saying "chink in the armour" about an East Asian person. The phrase by itself is not racist nor does it have racist origin but when you think of the context of which it was used it is inappropriate, rude, racist. This phrase would never have been used by the likes of the Telegraph / Times despite being right leaning papers like the Mail as they would know that their readers would understand the hidden meaning of the words. The daily mail readers are either too stupid to see the hidden meaning or knew the meaning and just didn't care as they believe the diatribe the Mail give them about meghan.

If you believe no one in the DM press room who read the article before going to press knew about the second meaning (journalists who have studied at oxbridge and attended elite public schools studying the english language and the eytomology of words from Latin, french etc), you are either naive, disingenuous or both.

There are so many things the press could say about meghan without the passive aggressive references about her heritage. By doing this, it negates any genuine critiques they have made about her.

Ok- I have been reading the last discussion over several days with longer beaks and English is not my native language- is there a second meaning to niggling? Because I certainly have used it here and there. And from how I understand the word and looking at the headline it would rather read as if the author is actually not happy with their feeling and would rather be just all happy about it. (Obviously this could be just an excuse and it was about saying something negative all along. Which is definitely something the DF does .)
Or is it just that words look similar?
I don’t discard the argument that the DF used the visual similarity on purpose. They had been playing with words along the edge quite masterfully. But if it would have appeared in the Telegraph- would the interpretation be the same? So, is the problem the bubble it appeared in and not the word itself?

 

[Multi-21]

Ok- I have been reading the last discussion over several days with longer beaks and English is not my native language- is there a second meaning to niggling? Because I certainly have used it here and there. And from how I understand the word and looking at the headline it would rather read as if the author is actually not happy with their feeling and would rather be just all happy about it. (Obviously this could be just an excuse and it was about saying something negative all along. Which is definitely something the DF does .)
Or is it just that words look similar?
I don’t discard the argument that the DF used the visual similarity on purpose. They had been playing with words along the edge quite masterfully. But if it would have appeared in the Telegraph- would the interpretation be the same? So, is the problem the bubble it appeared in and not the word itself?

No there is no second meaning to the word niggling in English.

 

[Spurgyrose]

Ok- I have been reading the last discussion over several days with longer beaks and English is not my native language- is there a second meaning to niggling? Because I certainly have used it here and there. And from how I understand the word and looking at the headline it would rather read as if the author is actually not happy with their feeling and would rather be just all happy about it. (Obviously this could be just an excuse and it was about saying something negative all along. Which is definitely something the DF does .)
Or is it just that words look similar?
I don’t discard the argument that the DF used the visual similarity on purpose. They had been playing with words along the edge quite masterfully. But if it would have appeared in the Telegraph- would the interpretation be the same? So, is the problem the bubble it appeared in and not the word itself?

It’s not the word itself, it’s the context. Useless article (on the engagement photos) with a strange title that just looked like it was written so that they could shoehorn in that word for its 'visual'. I would also side eye the Telegraph if they wrote the same article with the same title, because, again, not exactly hard hitting journalistic content and strange title.

As other people have said, it's a subtle, subtle, dogwhistle which is frankly the most insidious kind of racism because as soon as you point it out everyone starts crying about not being able to use words anymore. But it adds up, it's what is known as microagressions. And I don't have any doubts that Meghan got her fair share of them from the press and maybe even the family itself. But I also think she trades on the race card as well, a lot of people of colour do. Combined with some people with the 'white saviour/social justice warrior' complex a lot of these conversations on micro-agressions and subtle forms have racism have become ridiculed and are not taken seriously. The 'problem' (ironically) is that few people are blatantly racist (no one would dare call Meghan the 'n' word flat out), but racism hasn't been eliminated by any stretch, so being all the more aware of these slights is important, but it's a far more nuanced conversation to have. And current discourse is devoid of nuance...

 

[Libbylulu]

I am so tired of these two. When I cry the last thing I think of doing is to record it, how are their most personal moments videoed? They really need to move on and stop all this complaining. Taking the high road with the privacy the wanted would have been better all round. I’d have certainly admired them for that.

 

[Joannabloggs]

Ok- I have been reading the last discussion over several days with longer beaks and English is not my native language- is there a second meaning to niggling? Because I certainly have used it here and there. And from how I understand the word and looking at the headline it would rather read as if the author is actually not happy with their feeling and would rather be just all happy about it. (Obviously this could be just an excuse and it was about saying something negative all along. Which is definitely something the DF does .)
Or is it just that words look similar?
I don’t discard the argument that the DF used the visual similarity on purpose. They had been playing with words along the edge quite masterfully. But if it would have appeared in the Telegraph- would the interpretation be the same? So, is the problem the bubble it appeared in and not the word itself?

Niggling has only one meaning which is not racist nor does it have racist origins. However as with most phrases, words can be interpreted to mean a different thing depending on the speaker, punctuation, context etc. The woman who wrote this article studied modern languages at university at one of the best universities in the world, she should have or will have known that the word could have been misinterpreted and used a synonym. You cannot take the language at face value.

The Telegraph is a broadsheet newspaper whilst DM is a tabloid, so it's highly unlikely they would ever use this headline unless they were directly quoting someone. As someone said before when you combine this phrase with the other racially insensitive language that the DM has used about meghan, it is understandable why meghan/ people would view this language as having malintent behind it

 

[Everytown]

If you believe no one in the DM press room who read the article before going to press knew about the second meaning (journalists who have studied at oxbridge and attended elite public schools studying the english language and the eytomology of words from Latin, french etc), you are either naive, disingenuous or both.

What "second meaning?" Niggle derives from the Norwegian or Old Norse for stingy.

 

[Joannabloggs]

I am so tired of these two. When I cry the last thing I think of doing is to record it, how are their most personal moments videoed? They really need to move on and stop all this complaining. Taking the high road with the privacy the wanted would have been better all round. I’d have certainly admired them for that.

I think the RF have been really sloppy when it comes to the allowance of filming crews on Palace property. When you think about Andrew and his interview and the sussexes various netflix footage, you would think the Palace would make it so no footage could be released without them having seen it first.

I feel like like they still run the monarchy like we're in the 50s and this is why they are experiencing so many issues as there are no rules as to honourable conduct when it comes to the media. Trust and believe when Williams children go to secondary school/ uni there pictures will be all over social media, I highly doubt the media are going to resist the temptation to publish pictures which are already in the public domain

 

[LoopyLou47]

I really don’t see why it’s shocking that a country would prioritise its defence of the future head of state. Why would that be some kind of revelation? Of *course* William would be afforded more protection than Harry; that’s the whole point of primogeniture. If you start to unpick things like this, you’ll never be able to uphold the idea of monarchy.

It is not a shocking revelation but, as much as the Royals may think they are specially appointed by God, they and their children are just ordinary human beings with ordinary human emotions, and treating children who happened by some twist of fate to be second born as basically spare parts just in case something happens to the important one, and surplus to requirements once the eldest has children is not really a great way to treat your own children. I know the 'spares' get a pretty good deal out of it. Andrew, Margaret and Harry got to hob nob with the wealthy and basically live a life far superior to what they otherwise would have, based on their intelligence, ability and talent. The problem is that they all were basically completely useless to their family as adults, and they didn't like it.

 

[Baby Giraffe]

What "second meaning?" Niggle derives from the Norwegian or Old Norse for stingy.

Joanna explains this clearly in the post directly above yours. It’s all about deliberate context

 

[peradetlic]

Ok people, as @Great_Kate, English is not my native language. But niggling was a word I used since childhood. I don't understand: if you have such intent, you will find something derogatory even in "Good morning' not to say something more complicated.

I think that people are too much oriented to look and expect insults and hidden meanings in everything instead of enjoy difference of cultures. Are we really thing that seeing yourself as a victim is ok?!?

 

[Spurgyrose]

………all the selfie video stuff from them doesn’t look great does it? Ito me it look’s premeditated and planned? Else why would you do that?

I didn't watch it, but my friends and I were talking about that. While you're watching a documentary sometimes you don't really think about how all this footage is available, especially for intimate moments. Many documentaries I've seen that do have intimate moments like that clearly state, we followed this subject's journey from point A to point B or gave them a camera to document it themselves, which makes sense. Others that don't are really stylised and it's only a bit after do you start to wonder... often they can be recreating moments though. This is clearly not the case for the H+M show and it really makes you wonder. A lot of people are questioning that and it's not a good look. I guess you could make the case that Meghan wanted to document every moment of this 'surreal journey' of dating a Prince for herself - I wish I had taken more photos and videos during my relationship for example - but they ended up selling all that out for a big payout from Netflix. So, still not a good look.

Ok people, as @Great_Kate, English is not my native language. But niggling was a word I used since childhood. I don't understand: if you have such intent, you will find something derogatory even in "Good morning' not to say something more complicated.

I think that people are too much oriented to look and expect insults and hidden meanings in everything instead of enjoy difference of cultures. Are we really thing that seeing yourself as a victim is ok?!?

Please see my comment above...

 

[struggs123]

I think one of the things that was sad to hear was Harry saying the males in the family had married someone who fits the mould.

My immediate thought was that was aimed at William and Catherine and I always thought Harry had always got on very well with Catherine over the years.

It's also wildly hypocritical as Charles married his mother because it was arranged and not out of love, but when he finally followed his heart and married camilla Harry openly hated her and was very spiteful. He wouldn't have been here at all if it hadn't been for the men he is criticising. I agree as well him, William and Catherine used to be so close so these attacks must be very hurtful.

 

[50sGirl]

This article about the RF and the press and how Harry oversimplifies it is quite interesting: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...en-as-straightforward-as-harry-says-c6ttcp7kq

A few excerpts:

"According to Harry and Meghan, the media — and really the tabloids — hounded them out of Britain. Yet the picture the Sussexes paint of the relationship between the royal family and newspapers is over-simplistic, often out-dated and, occasionally, simply incorrect. Harry also conflates separate entities: the paparazzi with invited photographers; British newspapers with the foreign press; the mainstream media with social media."

"Harry talks about the media as though it is a single, dastardly organisation, but the Sussexes do engage with the industry — on their terms.
The documentary also shows that Harry misunderstands how the royal rota works. He calls the pack of royal correspondents “just an extended PR arm of the royal family”. As a former aide said: “If only it were — that would have made our lives a lot easier.” Royal journalists point out that they wouldn’t get any requests for corrections or complaints from Buckingham Palace, Clarence House and Kensington Palace if they were simply mouthpieces of the royal family. Yet Harry simultaneously complains that these journalists have too much power: “All royal news goes through the filter of the newspapers on the royal rota. It all comes down to control: this family is ours to exploit.”

It doesn't diminish the problematic aspects of the tabloids but if Harry wants to make a point about them, he should at least be factual - but I guess it's not enough dramatic.

BIB
Straight from the horses mouth! And don’t Harry and Meghan exploit the Royal Family as much as possible? Hypocrites.

 

[Baby Giraffe]

Ok people, as @Great_Kate, English is not my native language. But niggling was a word I used since childhood. I don't understand: if you have such intent, you will find something derogatory even in "Good morning' not to say something more complicated.

I think that people are too much oriented to look and expect insults and hidden meanings in everything instead of enjoy difference of cultures. Are we really thing that seeing yourself as a victim is ok?!?

As many of has have already said, it’s about context. Niggling is a word that is perfectly fine to use in everyday life but when any word is used in this way to hint at something else it’s offensive. Context and tone can subtlety (or not in some cases) make a perfectly reasonable word into one far less reasonable as is the case here.

 

[LoopyLou47]

harry was in his 20s when he wore that, old enough to know it's wrong.

This is also true. But If I got invited to a Colonials and Natives party I would find in in incredibly bad taste and wouldn't go in the first place. They are the product of their upbringing and their social group. A Nazi uniform was probably just a laugh to Harry William and their mates.

Edit: @Boring Monday has posted an article that more or less said the above!

 

[Spid]

The other thread seems obsessed with idea that 1) Meghan was a hooker. Well, 'yacht girl' but same thing and 2) her mum did a spell in prison. I can't believe either wouldn't have come out if any truth in them.

If there was a shred of truth in those rumours Dan wootton would be willing to get sued to print it.

FFS, the niggling debate is still going on half a dozen pages later?

 

[Everytown]

Joanna explains this clearly in the post directly above yours. It’s all about deliberate context

Or just wishful thinking on the part of people who mistakenly think everyone else is obsessed with race as they are.

Become your own diagnostic detective: The real reasons for those niggling symptoms

Too much much earwax, frequent yawning, a gurgling tummy - we've all noticed things about our bodies that are annoying, weird and sometimes downright embarrassing. But while these signs are often harmless, in some cases they may signal something more serious. In a new book, Joan Liebmann-Smith...

www.dailymail.co.uk

Life mysteries solved from ear worms to why voices sound weird on tape

A feature by How it Works magazine draws on research by the University of Lyon in France to explain why teapots drip as well as explanations about why toast burns and we sound weird.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Lions Den: Gatland will be plagued by niggling concerns over home nations' displays

Warren Gatland will be back in charge of Wales on Monday with plenty on his plate ahead of the clash with New Zealand, but in the background is a nagging headache over his Lions plans.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Jen667]

If there was a shred of truth in those rumours Dan wootton would be willing to get sued to print it.

FFS, the niggling debate is still going on half a dozen pages later?

IKR re niggling

heather mills was said to have done some escort work and the media were able to suggest it without outright saying it. They could do same re Meghan if the evidence was there

 

[Baby Giraffe]

Or just wishful thinking on the part of people who mistakenly think everyone else is obsessed with race as they are.

Become your own diagnostic detective: The real reasons for those niggling symptoms

Too much much earwax, frequent yawning, a gurgling tummy - we've all noticed things about our bodies that are annoying, weird and sometimes downright embarrassing. But while these signs are often harmless, in some cases they may signal something more serious. In a new book, Joan Liebmann-Smith...

www.dailymail.co.uk

Life mysteries solved from ear worms to why voices sound weird on tape

A feature by How it Works magazine draws on research by the University of Lyon in France to explain why teapots drip as well as explanations about why toast burns and we sound weird.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Lions Den: Gatland will be plagued by niggling concerns over home nations' displays

Warren Gatland will be back in charge of Wales on Monday with plenty on his plate ahead of the clash with New Zealand, but in the background is a nagging headache over his Lions plans.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That 100% supports the fact that context is everything. Nobody is saying it’s an offensive word in normal conversation but most words can be used in a way to hint at something different, I’m not sure how this is a difficult concept to understand. I’m not obsessed with race, couldn’t care less what race anybody is, not particularly a fan of Meghan either, however the insidious way some of the media have a dig at people then claim innocence is worth calling out.