The Royal Family #15

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And if Meghan were all about the money and status, surely that's what she would have done? It's hardly hard work she's avoiding, being a minor Royal.

There you go.
 
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So you think that the royals should override their relatives' decisions on their own children? Frankly, I've no idea what goes on in a lot of my cousins' lives as we live miles apart (and countries for some) and I haven't seen them for years. I've no intention of nor any legal ability to override their decisions regarding their families.
At the very least visiting them and providing a proper burial wouldn't be over riding any decisions about their care. They were hidden away due to their blood connections to the royals and the view that their heritage was not pure. Cant believe people think the treatment of them by their relatives is acceptable.
I have very little to do with my own cousins myself but I wouldn't let them have a paupers funeral if I was aware and be in a position to help.
 
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I have said that of Carol on here and been slaughtered 😁 I reckon Carol helped to nurture the relationship and bag a royal for her daughter. *Puts tin hat on and runs for cover*
Didnt she keep inviting him around to their after they broke up? Also you have to question a mothers judgement if the stories are true about William calling Kate a mattress when they were on one of their breaks....
 
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Didnt she keep inviting him around to their after they broke up? Also you have to question a mothers judgement if the stories are true about William calling Kate a mattress when they were on one of their breaks....
Wasn't it his Royal Protection officers who called her that, because she would just turn up whenever he wanted a shag, wherever else he had been? I suspect he didn't want someone who would rock the boat like Diana so made sure Kate would put up with anything before he committed.


There you go.
I dont particularly want yo rave about any Royals, including Harry and Meghan, because they are all entitled and self serving but the vitriol Meghan gets is really out of control compared to what she has done. It's so over the top, it's bizarre.
 
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I still don’t know why it has to be either/or. Some stuff they’ve done is distasteful … but just because they’re the current tabloid whipping persons doesn’t mean that all the others (except for one, obvs) get a free pass and are all that is sunshine and light or that you want to post in a fan thread <shudder>.

i’m also more interested in the history and institution of the monarchy than its current incumbents on a personal level. Anyway,I’m versatile - I can poke fun at more than one at once.
 
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Didnt she keep inviting him around to their after they broke up? Also you have to question a mothers judgement if the stories are true about William calling Kate a mattress when they were on one of their breaks....
Blimey I never heard that, but I can imagine Carol getting her talons into him and not letting go.And probably telling Kate to let him shag her as much as possible in case he found another one.

Wasn't it his Royal Protection officers who called her that, because she would just turn up whenever he wanted a shag, wherever else he had been? I suspect he didn't want someone who would rock the boat like Diana so made sure Kate would put up with anything before he committed.


I dont particularly want yo rave about any Royals, including Harry and Meghan, because they are all entitled and self serving but the vitriol Meghan gets is really out of control compared to what she has done. It's so over the top, it's bizarre.
I agree it's obsessive and pure poison.

I agree. He loves flapping his gums about ' private' family engagements. If Meghan did the same she would be slated.
I think he is getting a taste for being a royal he will be posturing in coat tails and top hat like jacob Rees - Mogg next.
 
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At the very least visiting them and providing a proper burial wouldn't be over riding any decisions about their care. They were hidden away due to their blood connections to the royals and the view that their heritage was not pure. Cant believe people think the treatment of them by their relatives is acceptable.
I have very little to do with my own cousins myself but I wouldn't let them have a paupers funeral if I was aware and be in a position to help.
No one is saying that it was acceptable but it was regularly done years ago.

However, the argument would be better were it based on fact. They were not hidden away because of their connection to the royals, any more than their Trefusis cousins were. They were hidden away because that's unfortunately what happened in those days in many families. Three of their cousins also with a Trefusis mother, were also in full time care due to mental disability. It appears to have been commonly thought that the Trefusis family had a genetic problem rather than the Bowes-Lyons; Diana Spencer's father broke off his engagement to the then Lady Anne Coke (later Lady Anne Tennant, Lady Glenconner, lady-in-waiting to Princess Margaret) because of her Trefusis grandmother and their "bad blood". So nothing to do with the royals. Or was Rosemary Kennedy hidden away for a link to the royals too?!

Lady Elizabeth Shakerley, another Bowes-Lyon cousin, disputed the notion that the family had forgotten the two sisters, her aunts, saying that they were very much part of the family as sisters to her mother, Princess Anne of Denmark (but only the British royals get flak for it). It is possible that, like Rosemary Kennedy, they had lived as members of the family until their behaviour got too hard to deal with, and they were then institutionalised as was very common. Would they have recognised visitors by that stage? Possibly not. Rosemary Kennedy's parents did not visit her either and her siblings only found out her location in 1961.

So, sadly, this was not restricted to the royals but a relatively common way of dealing with mental disability during that era. Visits could distress both the patient and their relatives; particularly if the patient could no longer recognise them and the relatives were unable to cope with this and/or their behaviour. This is what eventually happened with my relative.
 
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On that note, do you think that Kate only married him for love? I'm sure the money and him being a prince was a huge attraction for her. That and we all know Carole is the UK's answer to Kris Jenner and like duck was she going to let any of her kids marry poor.....
Honestly, it would have put me off - if she wanted to marry wealth there were far, far easier options than William. And after the press coverage over the last 30 years or so, who would choose to be in the royal family? I think she married him in spite of him being a prince, because she knew she was essentially marrying the entire country when she did so and she'd never be private again.
 
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No one is saying that it was acceptable but it was regularly done years ago.

However, the argument would be better were it based on fact. They were not hidden away because of their connection to the royals, any more than their Trefusis cousins were. They were hidden away because that's unfortunately what happened in those days in many families. Three of their cousins also with a Trefusis mother, were also in full time care due to mental disability. It appears to have been commonly thought that the Trefusis family had a genetic problem rather than the Bowes-Lyons; Diana Spencer's father broke off his engagement to the then Lady Anne Coke (later Lady Anne Tennant, Lady Glenconner, lady-in-waiting to Princess Margaret) because of her Trefusis grandmother and their "bad blood". So nothing to do with the royals. Or was Rosemary Kennedy hidden away for a link to the royals too?!

Lady Elizabeth Shakerley, another Bowes-Lyon cousin, disputed the notion that the family had forgotten the two sisters, her aunts, saying that they were very much part of the family as sisters to her mother, Princess Anne of Denmark (but only the British royals get flak for it). It is possible that, like Rosemary Kennedy, they had lived as members of the family until their behaviour got too hard to deal with, and they were then institutionalised as was very common. Would they have recognised visitors by that stage? Possibly not. Rosemary Kennedy's parents did not visit her either and her siblings only found out her location in 1961.

So, sadly, this was not restricted to the royals but a relatively common way of dealing with mental disability during that era. Visits could distress both the patient and their relatives; particularly if the patient could no longer recognise them and the relatives were unable to cope with this and/or their behaviour. This is what eventually happened with my relative.
If they weren't being hidden away why was it made out that they had died. You know no more than I do for the true reason they were kept away from public knowledge. Regardless of this aspect that we disagree on I think it is disgusting that the cousins of the queen do not have a fit burial and headstone.
 
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If they weren't being hidden away why was it made out that they had died. You know no more than I do for the true reason they were kept away from public knowledge. Regardless of this aspect that we disagree on I think it is disgusting that the cousins of the queen do not have a fit burial and headstone.
It was common for families to keep it from public knowledge right across Europe and the USA, especially aristocratic families with children to marry off. The Coke-Spencer marriage would not have been the only one not to have happened because of "bad blood". Likewise, the Kennedys did not want the knowledge of Rosemary to affect the family's political and social climb.

Why, when it was so common, make out that this particular instance of pretending that family members no longer exist is due to their royal connections when everyone else was also doing it at this point? It's not logical at all.

It was tit, it happened regularly at that time, but it was widespread even without royal connections. Look into the history of any mental institution from Bethlem (Bedlam) onwards; there were huge exposes in the 1980s at Rampton and elsewhere.. And it was tit that people were forgotten in life and death but historians and archaeologists will tell you how common it was. No doubt our era will be held to task over something in the future.
 
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I saw a comment, probably about the time of the TV programme, from the Epilepsy Association which said in regard to Prince John that there was nothing unusual in how he was treated and it would be another couple of decades before the though they shouldn’t be locked away. Although, as I said Prince John does seem to have been well looked after and loved … not least by Queen Mary.
 
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In the Royals defence, if you had a family member with mental disabilities they were often sent away regardless of what class you were. On one side of my family they were working class and there was a child who became mentally disabled after they were deprived of oxygen during a routine operation. Lots of people were surprised that the family didn’t send the child far away and forgot about him as was the norm, instead they all looked after him until the parents were unable to and even then they still kept in regular contact. This was very rare behaviour, I was speaking to a family friend about this several years ago and they couldn’t understand why my family kept the boy because he wouldn’t be able to get married, hold down a job, look after the parents, etc. It was very much ‘what is the use?’ At first I was aghast but it was the common belief of the day. Anything like that was shameful. The way the British treated people with mental disabilities has been very cruel and even today you hear horror stories.
 
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Honestly, it would have put me off - if she wanted to marry wealth there were far, far easier options than William. And after the press coverage over the last 30 years or so, who would choose to be in the royal family? I think she married him in spite of him being a prince, because she knew she was essentially marrying the entire country when she did so and she'd never be private again.
I have always thought this. I’m the same age as Kate and grew up in England - I clearly remember all the Charles and Diana press and there is no way I’d have ever wanted to get involved with the royal family. As you say, she could have found a rich man without all the attention and rules and standards and expectations etc etc. Of course not everyone thinks like me, Kate may have been on a mission to go to uni and find Wills!, but she would have had a clear idea what she’d be dealing with and she did it anyway. There must have been love/attraction there or else it’s too high a price to pay for money and nice outfits!
 
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In regards to Prince John, he made regular appearances with his family until his 11th birthday when his condition, epilepsy, became too severe. Unfortunately back in the 1900s, epilepsy was poorly understood and nearly everyone who had it as severe as John, if they couldn’t be cared for at home, ended up moving to a mental hospital for the rest of their life. When reading about John I have read one of his grandmothers kept a garden especially for him on the Sandringham Estate. Also his mother let local children befriend him which was against Royal protocol at the time. After his death one of the children, Winifred Thomas, was given a number of John's books, which Queen Mary had inscribed, “In memory of our dear little Prince.”
It seems that quite a few of the family were sympathetic to John, apart from Prince Edward who described him as an animal and said his death was “little more than a regrettable nuisance”. He also wrote a hateful letter to Queen Mary which has since been lost. What a prized dick he was.
 
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It was common for families to keep it from public knowledge right across Europe and the USA, especially aristocratic families with children to marry off. The Coke-Spencer marriage would not have been the only one not to have happened because of "bad blood". Likewise, the Kennedys did not want the knowledge of Rosemary to affect the family's political and social climb.

Why, when it was so common, make out that this particular instance of pretending that family members no longer exist is due to their royal connections when everyone else was also doing it at this point? It's not logical at all.

It was tit, it happened regularly at that time, but it was widespread even without royal connections. Look into the history of any mental institution from Bethlem (Bedlam) onwards; there were huge exposes in the 1980s at Rampton and elsewhere.. And it was tit that people were forgotten in life and death but historians and archaeologists will tell you how common it was. No doubt our era will be held to task over something in the future.
I agree it could be no more than just general appalling attitudes to their disabilities which was commonplace, you make a valid point. But once the queen was made aware they were still alive in the 1960s amends could have been made especially when the first cousin passed away in 1986, there was no need for her to have a paupers grave. The second cousin who died in 2014 has a very simple grave but a little more than her sister was afforded.
 
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Blimey I never heard that, but I can imagine Carol getting her talons into him and not letting go.And probably telling Kate to let him shag her as much as possible in case he found another one.


I agree it's obsessive and pure poison.


I think he is getting a taste for being a royal he will be posturing in coat tails and top hat like jacob Rees - Mogg next.
Sorry missed original quote but is this referring to Mr Mike Tindall? Thought I was alone in not finding him wonderful. For me he is obsequious around the right people and extremely disingenuous.
 
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I have always thought this. I’m the same age as Kate and grew up in England - I clearly remember all the Charles and Diana press and there is no way I’d have ever wanted to get involved with the royal family. As you say, she could have found a rich man without all the attention and rules and standards and expectations etc etc. Of course not everyone thinks like me, Kate may have been on a mission to go to uni and find Wills!, but she would have had a clear idea what she’d be dealing with and she did it anyway. There must have been love/attraction there or else it’s too high a price to pay for money and nice outfits!
Exactly her sister has married a millionaire and would live very quietly with him if her sister hadn’t married the future king.
 
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In regards to Prince John, he made regular appearances with his family until his 11th birthday when his condition, epilepsy, became too severe. Unfortunately back in the 1900s, epilepsy was poorly understood and nearly everyone who had it as severe as John, if they couldn’t be cared for at home, ended up moving to a mental hospital for the rest of their life. When reading about John I have read one of his grandmothers kept a garden especially for him on the Sandringham Estate. Also his mother let local children befriend him which was against Royal protocol at the time. After his death one of the children, Winifred Thomas, was given a number of John's books, which Queen Mary had inscribed, “In memory of our dear little Prince.”
It seems that quite a few of the family were sympathetic to John, apart from Prince Edward who described him as an animal and said his death was “little more than a regrettable nuisance”. He also wrote a hateful letter to Queen Mary which has since been lost. What a prized dick he was.
I think the one were he wrote to apologise about that still survives.
I think he got a Queen Mary sized rocket for that.
 
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There must have been love/attraction there or else it’s too high a price to pay for money and nice outfits!
But it's not just money and nice outfits. It's a life of pure privilege where you don't really have to think about money at all. Your job, while boring most days, is meeting people and shaking hands and being generally respectful and that's a lot easier than the average job - and on top of that you get to travel to other countries to meet some possibly amazing people? And even then, Kate has hardly been working anyway

The bad press is something but once you make it in good PR managers and the institution can probably shut them up pretty quickly. We can see that they're even able to afford a certain amount of privacy these days too

Even marrying a millionaire doesn't guarantee that sort of stuff, and I do wonder if Pippa would have met a millionaire had it not been for the family's newfound status

I think the Middletons did it for status primarily rather than money, but I can see the appeal in it, especially if you're happy to appear like you've got no actual personality. Plus being young means you probably won't consider the downsides as much
 
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Honestly, it would have put me off - if she wanted to marry wealth there were far, far easier options than William. And after the press coverage over the last 30 years or so, who would choose to be in the royal family? I think she married him in spite of him being a prince, because she knew she was essentially marrying the entire country when she did so and she'd never be private again.
Being a Royal isn't too shabby. The perks in return for a tiny bit of a loss of privacy is astronomical. Never wanting for anything ever again financially not only for you but your children, never having to worry about their education or job prospects afterwards, not having to do anything particularly taxing for the rest of your life, people fawning over you, only cooking and cleaning if you felt like it. They get tons of privacy. Most of the time they have the press at their beck and call. They go on numerous holidays every year where they have completed privacy. They are in no way on show at all times. Diana was in those circles and still went there. They are not hard done by in any way shape or form no matter what they want us to think
 
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