Sunbeamsjess #4 Can never commit to a schedule personally, but pay me on Patreon and fund the uncertainty

[jjeett]

Yeah exactly, when people talk about class they're talking about wealth and income, not blood lineage

But if we're using the class system instead of a socioeconomic bracket then I'm going to use the historical definitions because that's the definition. The idea of 'classes' is from years gone by where your blood lineage did influence your wealth.

Being a lawyer who made big doesn't mean you or your offspring are upper glass.

 

[lurker419]

this is funny to me because from a Canadian perspective (& probably American too) where we don’t really have aristocrats, Jess’s family would definitely be considered upper class. the historical definitions are just that - historical and not really applicable to like, the capitalist era

 

[coriander]

But to me extreme wealth doesn't equate upper class, maybe it's different elsewhere so yes I am going by the historical definition. I think there can be mobility between working class and middle class depending on income, profession and education. But upper class is a smaller pool of people with titles, old money etc.
I find this interesting but don't want to derail the thread so we can agree to disagree.

 

[hdavidthrow]

I see! This is very interesting. I think this historical definition might be easier differentiated as aristocratic vs non, as upper/middle/working class is used globally including the UK and is defined by income/wealth completely separate from nobility.

 

[blue_bird]

There's been some interesting discussions about class and classification, especially in the UK - I know celebrities who have made it big and live in a comfortable house with enough money who consider themselves working class still because it's where they came from. Personally I like this article which is quite old now: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22007058.amp

It basically says that the 3-tier class system is outdated which makes sense to me because someone in a traditionally working class job can have all of the traditional markers of being middle class (own their own homes and cars, children going to university) but not be accepted in traditionally middle class spaces (such as the theatre) and take part in middle class hobbies (such as skiing). And you also have a brand new generation of young professionals who might be highly educated, white collar workers who are friends with doctors and lawyers but still own no assets.

I totally understand why people scoff at the idea that Jess is middle class because traditionally, yes, upper class means landed gentry but in reality Jess does not fit into the same category as most of the nation that is middle class.

 

[Rosie2019]

OK. Jess's parents are a doctor and a lawyer which are quintessential middle class professions. Even in American terms people with these professions are middle class. In America there is no aristocracy I get it, but to be upper class you would need to be a judge, not a lawyer, for example. There are layers to it. She is middle class no question.

 

[hdavidthrow]

OK. Jess's parents are a doctor and a lawyer which are quintessential middle class professions. Even in American terms people with these professions are middle class. In America there is no aristocracy I get it, but to be upper class you would need to be a judge, not a lawyer, for example. There are layers to it. She is middle class no question.

That is simply not how middle class is defined in modern times. Yes your average lawyer and doctor could possibly be upper middle class (depending on their salary and the average salary where they live), but to classify a country divorce lawyer pulling in 100k in the same bracket as Jess’ mum defeats the entire purpose of having brackets. Perhaps we could refer to it as Jess being “economically upper class” but not “aristocratically upper class”?

 

[Binx]

ah British class debate, its interesting to read peoples point of views who might not actually be British

 

[hannah123]

this is funny to me because from a Canadian perspective (& probably American too) where we don’t really have aristocrats, Jess’s family would definitely be considered upper class. the historical definitions are just that - historical and not really applicable to like, the capitalist era

We do still have a lot of those institutions and titles within the UK though for it to still be applicable.

I read something recently that said young and old people view class differently, older people are more likely to say you largely remain the class you were born your whole life. It used Marcus Rashford as an example and older people still said he was was working class despite earning millions a month, young people said the opposite.

I’d say Jess was born and raised upper middle class, her dad was a doctor/surgeon(?), her mum a lawyer, both incredibly wealthier than standard middle class, but wealth alone doesn’t make you upper class, that’s a very small group of people.

 

[lurker419]

OK. Jess's parents are a doctor and a lawyer which are quintessential middle class professions. Even in American terms people with these professions are middle class. In America there is no aristocracy I get it, but to be upper class you would need to be a judge, not a lawyer, for example. There are layers to it. She is middle class no question.

right but, as if we need reminders of how successful Jess’s mother is, she’s absolutely not an average lawyer. lots of lawyers are firmly middle class in every metric, but she was a partner at one of the Magic Circle firms advising on $10+ billion dollar deals and it looks like she’s now a partner at a multinational firm that’s apparently one of the most profitable in the world.

 

[Author123]

Plus her step dad (who although rarely mentioned, she did spend a lot of her childhood growing up with and is Indie’s dad) was also a v.successful magic circle partner

 

[Lola123]

Plus her step dad (who although rarely mentioned, she did spend a lot of her childhood growing up with and is Indie’s dad) was also a v.successful magic circle partner

And her dad’s a doctor! And by the sounds of it he’s one that can walk into whatever job he wants

 

[queenamber]

I don't know how I missed it last year but I'm finally watching the barn tour and omg

Does anyone know if she's done a tour of her Mum's bookshelf on the kitchen staircase in the London house? I seem to share her Mum's reading tastes more than Jess!

 

[esrevni]

Social stratification (class distinction) is a useful system because it distinguishes those who have some form of power (whether it be from money or status), and by power I mean poltiical influence as well as freedom (to do whatever job you want, healthcare, travel).

It is useful to distinguish the origins of that power, i.e. does money give you more power or does inherited status/upbringing? But simply discussing whether the class system should exclusively refer to one or the other (money or family) isn't really that meaningful.

I do believe the US has a form of 'aristocracy' as well (Lehman brothers, Hamptons families), just a far smaller historical window.

The fact is that there is no standardized system to rank people, and wealth alone isn't everything, but I would be interested in stuff like her mums net worth/which percentile they fall into.

 

[Elyezabeth]

Poor Jessie is obviously lower class, since she's had to resort to scraping by on Patreon subscriptions and selling old clothes to support her little family.

 

[miagia]

Yeah, there was even some drama in the UK when Will started dating Kate because she was upper middle class rather than upper class. This is despite her family being worth millions. In the UK, upper class has a particular meaning and it means the aristocracy. I do agree that it's weird to say that people like David Beckham are middle class so maybe there should be another term for working/middle class people who have made millions, but I don't think upper class is it. I would say Jess is upper middle class. For a start, her parents actually have proper jobs (shame the same can't be said for Jess).

 

[jjeett]

I've witnessed this debate plague many a British, wealthy/posh YouTuber's threads and it's never occurred to me the divide in opinion correlates with what side of the Atlantic you're on.

In Britain upper classes are aristocracy. Jess is in Britain.

 

[sippingthetea]

I've witnessed this debate plague many a British, wealthy/posh YouTuber's threads and it's never occurred to me the divide in opinion correlates with what side of the Atlantic you're on.

In Britain upper classes are aristocracy. Jess is in Britain.

Exactly this.

Why are people trying to apply the social systems in US/Canada to Jessie, who is British? There is nothing in Canada or the US that is similar to the social structure in Britain. Being from a prominent family (Canada: Westins, Irvings; US: Vanderbilts, Morgans) is not the same as aristocracy.

Stop shouting over the people here who actually understand and are trying to explain the system to you.

 

[Mucha]

Completely unrelated to the current discussion, but I am getting really tired of all of the baby sleep talk in her vlogs. Maybe it’s because I’m not a parent/not interested in children but I wish Zak would just spare us all the baby sleep recaps

 

[Pew]

The state of the house is still a construction site; i can’t watch the segments with it without feeling stress and anxiety. Will this ever be finished?