Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[Beach88]

Growing up , were you beaten as a child ?

I experienced this as a child.

Hope you are as ok as possible. Easter can be full of difficult memories.

 

[Ablemabel]

id really recommend couples therapy… because for it to be sorted, your husband has to be willing to accept responsibility for his behaviour and want to change, and therapy can be a safe space for that type of reflection.

but yeh, I think reading up on comms style and CBT techniques would be a real eye opener for you.

for example, with CBT you relfect on scenarios like your husband huffing when you want to watch TV.

how do you feel when your husband voices that he wants to watch something else when you’re watching TV?

do you become tense? How does this manifest in your body? Do your shoulders tense up, do you clench your jaw?

do you feel panicked? What is your concern and the source of panic?

If the source of your panic is fear of your husbands disproval; why do you think you need his approval to watch your TV show? is there a fair balance of whose show you watch? If you watch his shows without complaint, is it inappropriate for you to want him to reciprocate? Or perhaps it’s a reasonable request? Are you able to observe those feelings of tension/guilt/fear and let them pass without reacting to them?

and so on! It’s all about observing your emotions and trying to understand them, rather than reacting to them, and learning to sit through uncomfortable emotions.

so in that scenario, you might want to say to your husband “I see you’re a bit put out I’m watching a show on TV, but I’ve watched your TV shows multiple times this week so I’m going to continue enjoying my show“.

the communication aspect of CBT, is about passive v active communication and when it’s appropriate. A lot of people pleasers communicate passively. We don’t direct our needs. It’s really worth reflecting and observing how you communicate!

This is such good advice!

 

[Urbanbunny]

Without sounding rude. It’s not your job to be your mums private counselling service where she rings you at beck and call and expects you To listen. This isn’t fair. Relationships are all about balance. It’s unfair on you.

You’re right. She gives nothing back. Just takes and expects attention and doesn’t listen when I disagree. I don’t know what to do apart from go NC for a while.

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

Thank you so much for your advice it is greatly appreciated. What could I say to my brother and his wife without coming across as "I couldn't be bothered attending" etc. I just don't want to put myself in that atmosphere as I get extremely unwell during and after it.

No problem. Does your brother how you feel about your mother ? I'd tell them the truth that you're feeling unwell about attending. Good luck x

 

[Rodneytrotter]

Latest update- I’m now being passive aggressively told that her blood pressure is sky high. Said to my brother whilst making sure I was in earshot. Is this a manipulation tactic? I just ignored it.

Oh god, I'm so angry for you! They're so pathetic (not just your mum but my family too). Sending hugs

 

[cosytoes]

Hi everyone. Last July I posted about my ill sister and toxic relationship with my Dad.
My sister sadly died a few weeks ago and her funeral is next week. Myself and her husband are planning her funeral with a small amount of input from my mum. My Dad has had no input, financially or with planning. I am giving a eulogy as it’s really important to me to do so, my parents said they wanted to write something to be read out by the celebrant but my dad left my mum to write it in the end. He acted appallingly when she was dying in hospital.
I am so mad but know it is wasted on him as he is either too thick or too emotionally unavailable to even be able to understand that I am entitled to expect more from him.
My sister requested we give our packets of wildflower seeds at her funeral so I bought 60 packets and stickers to put on the back with a message from her. I have been at my sister’s house today and wouldn’t have gone round had I known my dad would be there. The pen he is wanting to use isn’t working so he starts scribbling on the back of one of the packets of seeds to make it work. I just lost my shit and started shouting, I was actually really close to calling him a c*nt which I’m not proud of. He told me to ‘calm down, what you shouting for?’ totally invalidating me. Anyway, the purpose of this post is that I am planning to go no contact with him after her funeral, my mother will struggle to respect the boundaries of this as has spent decades sweeping shit parenting under the table.
Thanks for reading x

So sorry for your loss.
Do what is right for you and if it’s no contact so be it. Put yourself first

 

[Mollywobbles]

They said if she doesn't then I can apply to have her removed as executor which obviously would cost more. They were very nice and honest about everything and they knew their stuff. They said I could wait until I receive the money before I pay but obviously I don't know how much I am due.

The £1800 is to pay for a letter to be sent to her telling her that I am requesting my share, informing her of her obligations as executor and requesting the accounts.
Then they will work out how much I will receive.

They also said that I could write to her myself and tell her that I am requesting my share. They said if she ignores me or refuses then they'd pick it up from there. But in all honesty I wouldnt know what to write, especially as I'm now no contact,and I'd risk my dad getting in touch.

Eta they also said that she had not used a solicitor for this but is doing it all herself using an online system and there is a risk that she has spent/ will spend it (but that she would still owe me.

When I was executor for my Dad, I had to fill in the probate forms, take them to the local court and they checked them for accuracy and death duties.
Then I had to swear I would distribute legacies as according to the will, etc.
Could you contact the court and ask/tell them what is going on and ask for advice.?

 

[Slaybutter]

Update: I avoided checking my email all day. Had a look and she sent another message. My spam filter didn’t work She said she’s worried and asked that I respond. She knows she’s been blocked so this is absurd. My oldest brother has had her blocked for a year now. That is also the reason why I was talking to her to begin with/ I was trying to support her while she was depressed. So there’s absolutely no sense in her faking worrying about me, she knows what’s going on. I even spoke to my grandfather a few days ago and told him I’m doing great so this is really unnecessary.

 

[Black.bird]

Typical narc behaviour. I'm glad your cousin is seeing it too. I sometimes questioned myself and wondered if I'd misunderstood but I see it clearly now!

Are you in contact with her?

I recently heard of a psychotherapist on YouTube called Ross Rosenberg and I've found his videos helpful.

Very limited contact, and I always grey rock with her.

 

[Ablemabel]

Worth remembering though that narcs feed off peoples’ reactions.

she knows her request is bizarre - how could she not?

if it were me, I’d grey rock. “I’m not able to come feed your dog”

your priority when interacting with a covert narc is protecting your own peace. What is her likely response to you pointing out how ridiculous the request is?

IME, my mum would maybe resort to calling me names “you’re so ungrateful” or maybe guilt tripping me “well I can’t feed the dog so now he’s going to starve and it’s your fault” or “you never do anything for me” etc etc.

IME with my own narc mother, the more I pushback with her, the more opportunity I give her to go off on a rant. The more ammo I give her to hurt me. Because the unjustness and the harshness and unfairness of her response always hurts me.
IME, she’s never going to suddenly realise her request is ridiculous. She’ll never be honest about her motives. She’ll never consider my POV. So it’s pointless trying to reason, which is why I grey rock.

pointing out how ridiculous she is gives some short term satisfaction, and helps me feel like I’m sticking up for myself. But ultimately it opens me up to more hurt when she responds with gaslighting or guilt and shaming. So over time I’ve learned that protecting my peace and ignoring her shitty texts is the best way to interact with her. I actually have her blocked on WhatsApp so I can control when and where I see her messages to me.

I’ll sometimes have a conversation with myself to validate how I’m feeling. “I’ve received this shitty annoying and confusing text, it feels so unfair and it’s unsettled me and I really want to stick up for myself and make her see how unfair she’s being”

then I’ll maybe point out to myself that narcs live off creating confusion and settling people. I tell myself that it is indeed, very unsettling and shitty and I validate my own feelings. Then I ask myself what outcome I want. Well, I want her to be fair. I want her to see my point of view. I want her empathy. I’ll then maybe rationalise that, she has never ever given those things to me in any conversation. So in lieu of that, what’s the next best thing?

the next best thing is peace of mind. And I don’t need her to realise her request is ridiculous to get that. I can give that to myself. If I believe it’s unreasonable and a stupid, unfair request - I don’t need the unreasonable and unfair person making the request to agree.

it’s been about maybe, 6 years? Since I realised my mum was very likely to be a covert narc. Protecting my peace of mind has always made me feel more contented and happier, but every person has to come to their own realisation on what works best for them.

This advice is spot on.

 

[HitnMiss]

I did everything for 40 years, ran myself into the ground but a similar thing with my own child was my walk away point. Never had any contact again and never went to the funeral. No regrets beyond the realisation that I didn’t matter, ever.

Me too

 

[Maid22]

Yeah, heard all those things too. I ruined her life. I was a Christmas baby, but she actually wanted a dog for Christmas but was lumped with me instead. She wanted a boy but was lumped with me instead. Everything about me was wrong.

Oh lovely that's really awful, but you've proved her wrong, you're like us all, you've survived their toxicity, it still hard to comprehend what we've all been through, but this thread is proof that we can all relate and support each other.

 

[testingonetwothreefoiur]

I saw it as the only way I would survive and keep a good relationship with my children, so I don’t think about what I could do really. It was a case of it’s me or you, bitch, and I choose me. That’s not to say I didn’t mourn having an actual loving parent but the two things are different and I had to come to terms with the fact that a loving mother didn’t exist for me. Once you realise and accept not getting that fantasy parent, it gets easier. I wish my life had been different but nothing I could have done or could do would make it any different.

Thanks for sharing this, I relate a lot to the grieving of a loving mother. Covert narcs are a hell of a thing, I believed her narrative of having grown up in a "loving, close family" until I was in my 30s, despite all the compelling evidence to the contrary, because she puts on one hell of an act to the outside world. The grief was rough, but it also opened up my life in the best way.

As someone who hopefully will have a child in the future, I'd love if you could share more about the choice you mentioned here? And how you didn't see it as possible to stay in contact and have a good relationship with your own kids?

 

[ItsDatCuw]

My mother does this sort of thing constantly. When I complain something is expensive, she says it's a good deal and I shouldn't expect something for nothing. When I'm chuffed with a bargain she says I paid far too much.

She judges me for spending money on things so much that I full out lie now and make up the cost. Yet she is so irresponsible with her money.

It’s awful isn’t it! It’s proof that they’re deliberately trying to be a downer. Mine is so careless with money as well! She lives on her own yet she can spend up to €300 on groceries each week, and then she’ll let the food expire. It’s always “do as I say, not as I do” with her in every way; she expects perfection in everything but will only do the bare minimum, herself. Hypocrites.

 

[cee-bee]

I feel this thread will get busy over the festive period when narc parents really find their time to shine 🥲

 

[Chandler Bing]

@Chandler Bing sending you hugs xx

Thank you @Maid22 hugs to you too I hope you are doing well xx

 

[Rose28454]

I wasn't going to comment on your post as I believe in scrolling past if I don't like something and also I dont particularly like confrontation even if it's online.... But when I saw this response i felt i need to say that it's not really fair to call @Chandler Bing nasty, they are a very supportive member of this thread and to be honest what you've said could be quite triggering to members on here. This thread has always been a safe space for those of us with immature/ narc/ abusive parents.

You've come to this thread and stated that you are having a difficult time with your daughter whilst blaming your husband and now your Catholic parents. At the same time you list the things that you do for your daughter for example completing her books, walking the dogs etc. Personally I am used to having 'after all I've done for you' thrown in my face every time I attempt to stand up for myself or even have a mind of my own. You seem more bothered about whether you are a narc or not which is irrelevant as your daughter obviously still has issue with you whatever your label.

I don't wish to discuss your situation or have a back and forth, but I'm wondering if maybe you'd be better of with a thread for parents who are having a difficult time with their adult children? You might find like minded people and advice more suited to your situation.

Whatever will delete my questions.

 

[Reality_tv_lover]

What are your relationships like with your siblings?

I'm made out as if I'm the problem, cutting my parents out is "hurtful to them" "after all that they have done for us". If I don't text back or answer calls from sibling immediately or within days, I'm bombarded with messages of "are you ok" & "this is not normal behaviour". Or this most recent classic has been "I'm just checking you're ok as this is not normal, my message only comes from a place of love."

How many different ways can you say f*ck off?!?

I have a half sister funny enough who her dad got full custody of as a kid and I never really saw. Doesn't have a bond with our mum but it hurts me that I don't have a bond with her either

 

[Ablemabel]

It’s so sad and yet comforting reading these posts. I’m sorry to anybody living with a narcissist, I truly am.
As an adult I feel like I’ve wasted my good years of my life trying to appease the narc. Treading on eggshells, putting their needs before my own so not to wind the narcissist up. I’ve been single for nearly twenty years after a serious relationship ended. NM forbids friendship and attention from men or ‘messing about’ so any private life is strictly private and to be honest, I’ve put on so much weight I no longer feel confident or attractive so I guess that’s me for now.

It’s true you do grow up hyper vigilant. I find myself at work apologising a lot. I find myself looking for cues and signals when things are not going good, signs things could get bad and find ways of making sure it doesn’t happen. It’s exhausting. I’m not sure about anybody else but does anybody else startle a lot too? I work in a Male dominated environment and it isn’t uncommon for them to walk in a shout and be loud at first I used to jump out of my skin. It used to trigger me so much I would tremble, but I guess as the years have gone on, I’ve become accustomed and feel safe in their company so it no longer triggers.

The lady who posted about her husband, yes I feel I fell into that trap with narc mum. I was fed up with the comments and confrontational behaviour I just stopped. A classic is when I wore make up she said I was “selling myself”. I wasn’t but it became such as issue each time I wore something I just eventually stopped because I didn’t want confrontation. Thing is it didn’t stop, it just changed. If it wasn’t make up it was the clothes I was wearing or my hair or my attitude. The list continues...
I’ve really let myself go over the last ten years to the point I look horrendously obese and ugly.
Don’t lose your identity because of husband. You should be allowed to watch what you want when you want.

I know I need to go no contact but I almost feel I won’t be able to cope on my own. I know this sounds ridiculous. I do keep low contact and I hardly share anything about my life. Small boundaries.

I just need to find myself again.
I’m sorry to each and every one of you. Nobody outside really gets it. But these posts on here. It’s like a narcissist text book and freakishly weird how similar they act.
Take care and be strong

BIB
It is exhausting and it should never have happened to us. Please put yourself first x

 

[Readingismyhobby]

This is so relatable to me! Recently had an argument with my dad where I sent a very long message explaining how he makes me feel and in that message mentioned his dog. The only thing he replied with is the part about the dog 'he has a name'. The mind boggles
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My dad is diagnosed with EUPD but my therapist mentioned narc traits too. He has been heavily dependent on me for the past 10 years since my parents marriage broke down. He has a very limited social group due to his behaviours pushing people away. The reliance on me has just grown and grown. Recently I told him I couldn't see him for the next few weeks and he blew up on me. Tried to turn my sister against me, saying really hurtful things such as my late nan that I thought the world of, didn't think much of me. My sister told me this so I confronted him and we had a huge argument. I've asked for an apology before I speak to him again and he isn't willing to give one so he's been giving the silent treatment. Since then I'm riddled with anxiety and low mood. Anxiety as he has no one else and his mental health is so unstable and he has made threats to harm himself. Rationally I know this is all manipulation but I am struggling to manage the emotional side of this. Cant help thinking what if we don't talk before Christmas, do I let him spend it alone, do I buy presents, I feel completely stuck

I appreciate how difficult this situation is for you. Could you contact social services and ask them to provide care for him? You deserve more in your life. If he can’t be civil to you then IMO you need to prioritise yourself. It’s not an easy thing to do, but it gets easier with practice.