Lucy Letby Case #3

[LaBlonde]

Just out of interest, the people who think she is innocent at this stage, is there any particular reason why? I’m all for innocent until proven guilty etc, just wondered if there’s been any point so far that people have been like no she can’t have done it

i think it’s impossible to say with any real weight either way right now - we’ve heard a couple of days of an opening statement and there’s obviously much more to come. i’m still on “undecided until i’ve heard it all”.

though it’s a highly emotive case so i get why people want to immediately get a “feeling” about it.

i honestly want to know more about her as a person too. there’s so much being written about her but it all seems based on what people think must be the case - ie that she was an awkward loner with baby fever. the fact that we’re getting no real sense of her personality yet also makes it hard to say imo.

 

[Truthslayer]

Some of the comments here show a real misunderstanding of the criminal justice system.

For a start, so far we have only heard the facts as the prosecution allege them to be. The defence haven’t opened their case yet. So there will be more to come. People deciding that she is innocent or guilty at this stage without knowing all the relevant info are jumping the gun. The comments saying ‘she doesn’t look the type’ are a bit concerning- would people think she looked more the ‘type’ if she was less attractive or a different ethnicity?

Also, in order for the case to even get off the ground, the CPS have to decide there is a realistic prospect of conviction. That means they have to have evidence. They have to think that it is worth putting it to a jury whether she is guilty or not guilty. That is a pretty high bar. There will be weeks/months of evidence, including expert evidence from medics etc.

Finally, just a reminder that for her to be found guilty on some or all of the counts against her, the jury have to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt. So they have to be 99% sure she was responsible. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to show she was guilty.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

Isn’t it possible there’s no other suspect though? These deaths may not have been murder

Isn’t it confirmed that some of the children were murdered ? I.e. insulin poisoning, it’s just a case of proving it was LL that did it

 

[Tofino]

Thank you - maybe I'm confused then because on reflection it is a higher number than babies involved, so they must be counting each one as an individual charge?

They are with some and not others. Baby I for example had 3 attempts before the 4th which was murder. But only has a murder charge. Maybe the murder charge supersedes it? I can’t remember which others haven’t been listed off the top I’ve my head.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I've made it clear as it stands I'm camp 'not guilty' but I will say R.E the CPS bringing it to court. Years ago I was attacked and it was really obvious who did it and the police arrested them and all that. Then they rang me to say the CPS wouldn't take it as there wasn't a 90% chance of conviction.

 

[Aberscot]

Thinking about the Dr and could he have done more to raise concerns, he didn’t write it in notes [maybe so not to raise suspicion] , but she was changed shifts to day. Could it be he did raise and his concerns not taken seriously enough and instead they left her to continue and poor more babies were harmed. It must take a lot to say I think one of our colleague’s is a murdered.
also I wonder what happened for her to be put on admin duties, surely at that point if it was thought she harmed the babies she should have been suspended until a full enquiry.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

I'll never understand how it took 3 attempts to charge her

This is commonplace in many murder and serious investigations. Hell it’s commonplace in an assault. You need the CPS consent to charge and usually people who are “Suspected” of an offence are arrested and bailed and interviewed a few times before charge as the investigation continues. Each time she was arrested they probably interviewed her about more things come to light. It’s building the case. The final time when she was charged it means they think they have enough evidence to prove it was her. Rather than just “suspect” it was. Multiple arrests and bails is not evidence of someone not being guilty and being set up. It’s normal practice

 

[Ittybittytittyclub]

Can the nurses on this thread help out with some questions I have….

How often would you expect to see the kind of problems in premie babies that we're hearing….. air in the stomach, high insulin levels, lines causing damage to baby's throat etc?

How often does it happen that a baby becomes suddenly extremely unwell like these ones did?

I'd like some context because without a medical background I’m struggling to know if anything we're hearing is out of the ordinary? Anyone else struggling to understand?

Also, the police dug her garden up and searched her house but we've not heard of anything suspicious being found other than bits of paper that she could have accidentally taken home have we? TBH if she did murder all these children I would have expected her to have 'trophies' at home.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have kept some evidence back from the opening statements and once defence have started, the prosecution will bring it out to disprove them.

 

[Squashedbanana]

There had been some comments earlier about not hearing anything from friends or neighbours like you usually do, but I just came across an earlier article from 2018 and there is several on there:

 

[MmmB777]

For me, I am not taking the Facebook searches, card or any other snippet we have so far to lean towards guilt in isolation. I’ve seen people comparing it to nice nurses they have kept in contact with and what’s the difference- well I’d assume none of those people also had enough evidence to get through CPS for killing and attempting to kill lots of babies. I think that’s the key difference ‍
The fb and other creepy shite would all be ok in isolation wouldn’t it but along with everything else I’ve heard it paints a bleak picture. In isolation her being at every one of these unexplained crashes and deaths is not guilt. In isolation the fascination with these children is not guilt. In isolation her appearing to centre herself to these specific children where common symptoms are shown, common patterns, common themes, common that she’s not supposed to be as involved and controlling their care when not really necessary. In isolation the combination of her saying she cannot remember or has no reason to be looking up these specific children and yet does so and has their paperwork in her house doesn’t suggest guilt. In isolation the fact that colleagues were not just suspicious of the sudden decline of otherwise ‘as well as they could have been and progressively getting better’ babies but also at times specifically of Lucy Letby. In isolation the fact they made rapid recoveries once away from her care is not suggestive of guilt. In isolation the patterns of her being around and these very similar unexpected emergency events correlating do not suggest guilt. In isolation expert witness and PMs showing that the most likely cause of death of lots of these babies without consideration of all the above factors involved show that they most likely were caused by air/milk/insulin poisoning do more than likely suggest foul play but not specifically LL. All together I personally feel that is a very strong picture. Of course they could soon be all explained away super easily and she’s the unluckiest nurse ever (not intended to be as sarcastic as it sounds ).

 

[Ittybittytittyclub]

I’m so confused about this case I honestly think it could go either way. The TPN bag they say just have been contaminated - if they thought that at the time why wasn’t a investigation opened? The dr (i want to say dr ravi) saying he started to have suspicions, yet again a case wasn’t opened. And then to put her in charge of a student nurse, they can’t have been that suspicious surelt

Or did they put a student nurse with her so she wasn’t alone and they could see if that stopped the collapses?

 

[stardust1]

For me, I am not taking the Facebook searches, card or any other snippet we have so far to lean towards guilt in isolation. I’ve seen people comparing it to nice nurses they have kept in contact with and what’s the difference- well I’d assume none of those people also had enough evidence to get through CPS for killing and attempting to kill lots of babies. I think that’s the key difference ‍
The fb and other creepy shite would all be ok in isolation wouldn’t it but along with everything else I’ve heard it paints a bleak picture. In isolation her being at every one of these unexplained crashes and deaths is not guilt. In isolation the fascination with these children is not guilt. In isolation her appearing to centre herself to these specific children where common symptoms are shown, common patterns, common themes, common that she’s not supposed to be as involved and controlling their care when not really necessary. In isolation the combination of her saying she cannot remember or has no reason to be looking up these specific children and yet does so and has their paperwork in her house doesn’t suggest guilt. In isolation the fact that colleagues were not just suspicious of the sudden decline of otherwise ‘as well as they could have been and progressively getting better’ babies but also at times specifically of Lucy Letby. In isolation the fact they made rapid recoveries once away from her care is not suggestive of guilt. In isolation the patterns of her being around and these very similar unexpected emergency events correlating do not suggest guilt. In isolation expert witness and PMs showing that the most likely cause of death of lots of these babies without consideration of all the above factors involved show that they most likely were caused by air/milk/insulin poisoning do more than likely suggest foul play but not specifically LL. All together I personally feel that is a very strong picture. Of course they could soon be all explained away super easily and she’s the unluckiest nurse ever (not intended to be as sarcastic as it sounds ).

great post for me it seems there are far too many ‘coincidences’. Doesn’t excuse why the hospital allowed it to carry on but them failing also doesn’t necessarily mean she is innocent either. The failings could have also meant it was a perfect opportunity for Lucy to get away with it and carry on.

 

[candyland_]

How come if you've worked on such important cases you still can't spell the condition you refer to? :-/

Why is there so much nitpicking on this thread? These threads are going to be long enough without having to scroll past people sniping and belittling others.

 

[avabella]

Why is there so much nitpicking on this thread? These threads are going to be long enough without having to scroll past people sniping and belittling others.

Just don't contribute to the thread with absolute bullish!t then? And it'll get along just fine. We've had to sit through an amateur ASD diagnosis now we have bogus psychiatrists who can't even spell what they're accusing her of having.

 

[stardust1]

Just don't contribute to the thread with absolute bullish!t then? And it'll get along just fine. We've had to sit through an amateur ASD diagnosis now we have bogus psychiatrists who can't even spell what they're accusing her of having.

scroll past? You and others are all just picking on each others post.

 

[brightonbarbie]

One thing about professionals. They are birds of a feather and they flock together. They can and do single people out for terrible things, of this magnitude? Maybe not? Would I put it past them fully? No.

oh good lord, guys who are backing the scapegoat theory please take a look at yourselves.

This is a massive major trial with so much evidence, it will take SIX MONTHS. There is so much evidence it took seven years to bring this case to court. This is a highly complex trial that will feel “wrong” to many people because we are not used to seeing white, thin, middle class nurses kill loads of babies on purpose.

I know it’s tempting to be distrustful of authorities and don’t get me wrong, there IS a culture of cover ups within the NHS however it is far fetched to believe they would bizarrely ping it on one person. Please read the extensive details that have already emerged about her looking up her victim’s parents and trying to kill babies multiple times.

 

[veevee04]

Or did they put a student nurse with her so she wasn’t alone and they could see if that stopped the collapses?

They shouldn't be doing that , a student nurse is supernumerary and has no responsibility until they get their pin. They aren't employed by the trust. They shouldn't be getting students involved in trying to stop murders that shows shockingly poor judgement.

 

[OH.FFS]

You mean their ADULT DAUGHTER.

I’m sure they needs lots of support but holding hands going in and out of court for six months? No that's not contrived at all

More like they’ve been told to hold hands to make them look like a loving family who couldn’t raise an evil daughter. All part of helping Lucy look better and I don’t care for the aesthetics behind it.

Maybe they even do that normally. Support one another.

 

[brightonbarbie]

Could any of it be down to negligence? Im proper training? How long had she been a nurse?

She was a highly skilled senior nurse

 

[Lackofimagination]

Can we please stop talking about her being a white woman. It’s irrelevant and mentioning her skin colour is making me feel uncomfortable.