Do you think Jay and Nige are just taking the piss?
Do you think Jay and Nige are just taking the piss?Not sure that it’s going to be the most challenging interview she’s ever had. Although it will provide much scope for her to concoct even more absurd claims I guess.
Sorry I’m still behind but I very much consider class to be material.I'm interested in the 'JM isn't working class' discourse and I'd like to ask Fraus whether they think class is more material (ie you might come from a middle class upbringing and have whatever education credentials but no support network means you're struggling month to month on rent/groceries is working class) or cultural (ie coming from a working class background, distinct 'working class' taste preferences vs 'upper or middle class' preferences, what you spend money on, income is less important)
On twitter sometimes I see people pointing to JM's upbringing alone as proof that Jack can't be working class. I'd more say that it's because Jack has a (minor) celebrity profile, brand deals, books, is invited to talks etc. so claiming they struggle materially to a point of working class-ness is pretty baseless.
Also the Karl stuff made me so sick. Hope everyone is ok x
Ok wait this is loads better than what I said, ignore me. This is why I usually always grunk before postingI'd say class in the UK is an intersection of social, cultural and economic factors.
The class system as we understand it is a post-Victorian construction that then evolved significantly with the two world wars. Historically, upper class were aristocrats and landed gentry; middle class were the professions (doctor, lawyer, dentist, academic etc.) or clergy; working class were those who were of a trade, or in manual labour etc.
This is now obviously different. For example, there are plenty of upper class (in the traditional sense) who are cash poor but asset rich; while there are plenty of traditionally working class (e.g. a plumber) who now might earn more than an early-career researcher at a university, which would traditionally be middle class.
So, it's not purely economic; nor is it purely political - working class people, for example, were fundamental to the movement for universal suffrage, the labour and union movements etc. in the same way that conservative politics have typically been the bastion of the middle and upper classes, but shifts occur.
I'd argue instead that class in the UK nowadays is about our relationship to power, and can be thought of more as a series of concentric circles than it is an up-and-down hierarchy.
Those at the centre hold the power. The circle is small, and the barriers around it are high. You need money to get there, certainly, but money isn't everything. You also need cultural capital: the right way of talking, the right way of dressing, the references to the right schools or cultural touchstones; the right connections. The central circle is small because it is beneficial to those in it for it to remain small.
The next circle out is one which is power-adjacent. It may be that a lack of money, or a lack of another type of cultural capital prevents this circle from holding power, but they benefit from a close proximity to power. These are your Hooray Henrys and I'm Alright Jacks. They are largely protected from things like the cost of living crisis because of their wealth and status, and so on.
And so it continues: it's not necessarily just three circles for upper-middle-working classes; but the further away from the centre you get, the less power and the less cultural capital you have.
Those in the periphery have the least access to power, despite being the largest group. And that's the paradox of class in the UK: the majority of people hold the minority of power.
The barriers between the levels become easier to navigate the further out from the centre you go; e.g. someone out on the periphery might move one ring further towards the centre when they have a steady income etc. but as soon as they lose their job, can't keep up with mortgage payments etc. then they're right back out at the periphery. They have no cultural capital to protect them from economic circumstances, no generational wealth to call upon etc.
I don't think Jack could ever call herself someone who's out there on the periphery. She has cultural capital in her upbringing, sure, but also in the life she's led as an adult: the connections made in being at the Groucho. The dinner parties supposedly cooking for Mary Portas. Being in a relationship with Leggy and LJC. Understanding the language of the media, being able to navigate the complexities of it. Even just being able to say "oh, this is what happens in a select committee" or "my MP pals say I should stand!"
Whatever you call it (working class/periphery/something else), I just don't think Jack can ever say that she's at the edges of power.
I might go as a small Scottish woman. Either that or Michael Portillo. Interchangeable.She is suing everybody. I can't decide on my outfit, either a poverty scar (what does that even look like?) or a "went tell"
In other words a question mark.
The thing is Karl has interacted with her previously on twitter. I’m surprised she wasn’t aware of him prior.I bet Monroe nearly shit herself when she saw all those replies supporting Karl. Pity Karl wasn't a Tattler; after all that, I think he could say just about anything to her now on Twitter and she'd just have to suck it up.
(Thanks to these threads and JM's Twitter this past few days, my brain is well & truly frazzled. I spent a good few minutes searching for my specs today only to discover I was already wearing them - NOT on top of my head, but on my face - in front of my eyes - where specs should be.)
Hope you're all taking care of your kind and precious hearts.God she's so sickly sweet sometimes.
Well weird. "Jack is disabled", "Jack is allowed to have nice things", "This is a Tory inside job", "lies funded by the Tories".The sock, who hasn’t tweeted once since 2016, is now rushing round Twitter to defend her heroine
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This is simply one of her (rare!) lacks of due diligence, she reviewed BBC Broadcasting House (London) 2 years ago per Google. Jack's also been to BBC Essex.View attachment 1539084
Grunking and this is my first screenshot but I think this is bogus. I have done the same kind of interviews for media including BBCand they send a car for you, there and back, if you ask. Whenever I've had to make my own way it's been refunded.
Also, 2-4 hours' prep? I don't like to subject myself to Jack on TV but anyone who watched or listened to her recent interviews - did what she said take 2-4 hours of preparation time? Admin? Research?
It's a long drive but she could do any 'research' in the car or on the train if she needed to.
Also, NBH (media parlance) is in Manchester. Why wouldn't they invite Jack to BROADCASTING HOUSE, in London? Why tell someone in Southend to travel to Manchester for a ten minute segment?
A return from Southend to Manchester is £112, cheapest price. WHYYYY would anyone pay that for a journey of about 8 hours (not 6) for a payment of £50?
I think she's just making this up as she goes along. But 'make it make sense'.
edited to add wtf, 'New Broadcasting House' was demolished in 2012, what is she even talking about?
Maybe I'm working this out wrong. Am I gaslighting myself? You try to enter Jack logic and the world goes crazy.
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Dordrecht seems like a dream to me now. So long ago. <wistful gaze>I think I'd wear all black (in honour of when she dyed all her clothes), holding a placard..
What happens in Dordrecht, stays in Dordrecht
Re Jack passing/not passing the 11+ (public Facebook post)If it's true that she failed the 11 plus and her Dad somehow got her a place at grammar school then that screams middle class to me. I don't think a working class kid would get that privilege.
But then again, at this point I don't know which 11 plus story is correct because it seems there are quite few different versions.
I had to read that about ten times to check the date.For some reason I had assumed the CCJ' she talks about would be from a long time ago.
And I can also confirm that the address attached to this is most definitely not "a shi77y bungalow"...
Although the former address does show as a dormer bungalow.
(it's public domain information - but obviously I'm not sharing exact details)
Exactly this. A few years ago I got involved in setting up a campaign to help save a building in a very working class neighbourhood near the centre of a city. I helped set it up and once established said that it was time for me to take a back seat. The woman in charge who was letting power seep into her head demanded to know why! I said that (a) it wasn't my building (b) although I had connections to the building it was not as much as the community (c) it was their area not mine (other side of town to me) and therefore it was for their passions and I would never be able to replicate that. I think she thought I was being difficult but I felt that. It was their passion, their building, their history. Not mine. Once they were galvanised my job was done. Failed in the end as she stayed in charge and it became an ego thing....how the working class feel about poverty tourism, how patronising the middle class 'do gooders' can be and also the pride and dignity that runs through working class communities.
Perhaps she thinks CCJ stands for CASH CASH JACKIE (to the tune of Ice Ice Baby).I had to read that about ten times to check the date.
It sounds like a list of tall tales from TiddlerWell weird. "Jack is disabled", "Jack is allowed to have nice things", "This is a Tory inside job", "lies funded by the Tories".
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And the classic banger:
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£507? Surely a ring would have paid for that....For some reason I had assumed the CCJ' she talks about would be from a long time ago.
And I can also confirm that the address attached to this is most definitely not "a shi77y bungalow"...
Although the former address does show as a dormer bungalow.
(it's public domain information - but obviously I'm not sharing exact details)
Exactly this. There is a balance to be had between exposure, paid work, plugging etc but it is all part of the job and, if done well, all helps to support your personal brand and boost sales. Podcasts are actually really good for this - you get to have good chats about your thing. BUT you need to have charisma, expertise and be generally nice and easy to work with in order to capitalise on it.Excellent username and excellent post @MavisBeacon
As a slight addendum, when you have a book/product to flog (Jack is arguably the product here in the absence of her new book), free airtime is money. Exposure is profile raising. The bigger profile you have > the more opportunities come your way > the more people buy your next book/watch your next collab/read your interview.
One of my friends is an author. She does tours, she does endless interview, she chats nicely to her fans on SM. She doesn’t get paid for any of that bar expenses because she is getting a higher profile, meaning she sells more books.
The fact that Jack thinks she should be paid for deigning to grace Today or LBC or whatever with her appearance shows to me that she fundamentally misunderstands the relationship between her wanting to sell her stuff and the media. Effectively, she thinks she should be treated like a celebrity whose mere presence gives kudos to the programme she’s on.
Spoiler: it doesn’t.
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