Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evans #229 The day that Ioan realised she was totally and utterly bonkers

[Ninas purse]

She is a classic case of being too dumb to exact revenge. How do you try to get revenge and mess your own self up that bad. She has the vindictiveness but not the smarts to exact revenge.
She wasted a boat load of money, the prenup was upheld, she will have to share custody, she has no job, no money and the cherry, she will have to return all the household contents. She 's not even getting the satisfaction of keeping his furniture. We might not like it but those might be some expensive furniture. He has ghosted her completely. In his world she is not even a blip. Plus he is going to marry Bianca.

 

[M33L4]

Is this DiallingTone’s longest break from Twatter?
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It's so sad and frustrating that this isn't what happened with Ella and Elsie. I've felt from the beginning that Alice should lose all custody and only have supervised visitation with them, but now I'm feeling like it might be best for the girls to have an extended period completely away from Alice with no contact what so ever to try and deprogram them from her poison. I know a lot of people would disagree but I honestly believe that sometimes it's better to have no parent than to have an abusive one.
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@Bridgeofsighs I'm sorry if I seemed to be targeting you Bridge. I didn't intend it that way. I enjoy reading your posts and viewpoints and discussing our differing experiences and opinions calmly and respectfully.

Just give her this months Yobucks and it’ll be grand
I love that we all have differing opinions and yet are empathic, sympathetic and respectful, ya know? It’s a healthy discussion and safe place to have it.

 

[screamin.lisa]

Thirty of those views are her own sock accounts. Loser.

Marcia has been outed as the owner of that account. That is her account.

 

[M33L4]

Marcia has been outed as the owner of that account. That is her account.

Knew as soon as I saw that account who that was. She gives herself away too easily.

 

[ZipSilver]

It's not just humiliating, worse than that it's abandonment and betrayal, and that Elle didn't even seem to react shows that she's used to it. Alice abandons and betrays her children again and again and again, and in doing so, she is teaching them to betray and abandon themselves, that the only way to get any kind of love, acceptance, attention from her is to abandon themselves and their own needs and wants and fully cater to Alice, to be exactly what she wants them to be at all times. Kids have a deep, psychological, primal need for their mother, and for a mother who loves them. It's very unlikely that even at 14 Ella could stand back and coolly rationalise that Ioan is the better parent, the parent who loves them unconditionally. A big part of a narc's abuse and weaponry is to keep their victims in a state of constant turmoil and confusion, constantly doubting and questioning yourself, you feel like you're on quicksand, terrified to make a move in case it's the wrong one, and the narc always keeps moving the goalposts so you never know what's going to set them off. You learn to distrust yourself, to sacrifice yourself, to abandon your needs, you live to keep the narc happy to try and keep yourself safe. It's a very different thing to look at their situation as adults, from afar, with the experience and maturity of adulthood, and wonder what would I do, how would I react. Ella doesn't have the luxury to stand back and look at her situation clearly and calmly, to rationalise who the safer parent is, let alone have the emotional and mental intelligence and maturity to do so.
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Same! Both with the singing and the blaming you all!

All of this. Sorry, I know a heart react is sufficient and I’m just clogging the thread thanking you for this, but thank you. Adult victims of abuse are very often unable to see the situation clearly for what it is while they’re in it. Being fourteen and having known only this for three years, almost a quarter of your life, is a very different position to be in.
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It’s the godawful hair for me. A decent hairdresser could drag her into 2024 and take years off her. It’s just so, SO ugly and dated. I know she has very thin hair but that doesn’t mean it can’t still look great. She does herself no favours whatsoever.

It’s like she gave up on her hair years ago and decided from now on to repeat the exact same ‘style’ daily: brassy blonde hair with roots showing, dirty and greasy, scraped back in a low bun. It’s so strange honestly. Even a simple bob cut would take a few years off her.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

Hey FMs! We're on thread 229 LOL

@Bridgeofsighs I'm sorry if I seemed to be targeting you Bridge. I didn't intend it that way. I enjoy reading your posts and viewpoints and discussing our differing experiences and opinions calmly and respectfully.

No need to apologise. We don't have to agree on everything and I agree with you mostly anyway.
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Is this DiallingTone’s longest break from Twatter?

More proof it's mAlice. She didn't need him as an outlet while socking on the DM.

 

[CookieMonsta]

All of this. Sorry, I know a heart react is sufficient and I’m just clogging the thread thanking you for this, but thank you. Adult victims of abuse are very often unable to see the situation clearly for what it is while they’re in it. Being fourteen and having known only this for three years, almost a quarter of your life, is a very different position to be in.
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It’s like she gave up on her hair years ago and decided from now on to repeat the exact same ‘style’ daily: brassy blonde hair with roots showing, dirty and greasy, scraped back in a low bun. It’s so strange honestly. Even a simple bob cut would take a few years off her.

The heart-breaking thing is that even as an adult and away from the abuse, so many people still can't see or understand it clearly, process it, or accept what was done to them, let alone that they deserve to heal and be happy and loved. So many factors go into healing from abuse and sadly some people are never able to break the cycle.
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Hey FMs! We're on thread 229 LOL



No need to apologise. We don't have to agree on everything and I agree with you mostly anyway.
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More proof it's mAlice. She didn't need him as an outlet while socking on the DM.

I'm hoping Tone has seen the financials and is squeezing Alice for more money! Lord knows he's never going to get a kidney from her.

 

[IHateHadargoyle]

I rather like the marching ants handbag too...but I blame that on my love of old b&w sci fi films from the 50's...THEM anyone?!

Is that Alice’s first movie poster?

 

[Nixlondon]

This guy did what Ioan should have done and left his entitled spoiled wife after 3 years. Poor Ioan was just too much of a nice guy.

Husband divorces 'entitled' stay-at-home wife after birth of child

The anonymous man, 30, from the US, shared his dilemma on Reddit 's Am I the A****** forum. Stock photo

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

This guy did what Ioan should have done and left his entitled spoiled wife after 3 years. Poor Ioan was just too much of a nice guy.

Husband divorces 'entitled' stay-at-home wife after birth of child

The anonymous man, 30, from the US, shared his dilemma on Reddit 's Am I the A****** forum. Stock photo

www.dailymail.co.uk

This bit caught my eye.

 

[SusieTCones]

Two peas in a pod? Alice taking pro tips?

View attachment 2724910

Kelly Rutherford was also involved in a toxic custody battle. Sisters from another mister, indeed.

She wasted a boat load of money, the prenup was upheld, she will have to share custody, she has no job, no money and the cherry, she will have to return all the household contents. She 's not even getting the satisfaction of keeping his furniture. We might not like it but those might be some expensive furniture. He has ghosted her completely. In his world she is not even a blip. Plus he is going to marry Bianca.

Maybe he'll have the satisfaction of yoinking it all away from her and burning it in a great big bonfire in front of her.

Marcia has been outed as the owner of that account. That is her account.

The Houston Harpy strikes again!

 

[welp]

People are right to be concerned that Ella is at risk of growing up to become Alice 2.0 and it begs the question what turned Alice into Alice? We know her mother had mental health issues and father was distant.

NPD and BPD are disorders that take root, usually (not always), in early childhood when the child doesn’t get the safe and secure loving relationships with its parents that it needs.

I agree with all of you that Alice is abominable and her behaviour is vile. I do wonder where it started though. It strikes me that Alice, at her very core, has never grown beyond the wounded child. What caused her to develop as she did?

And if many here are empathetic to Ella and fear for what this whole situation could imprint on her future potentially disordered self, why the lack of empathy for Alice?

She has done terrible things to Ioan, Bianca, the children, family members etc and Ihope the court will put measures in place to try to mitigate, but I also hope somewhere along the line Alice gets some help because she isn’t a happy person, she never has been and her spoilt behaviour and thirst for compliments shows how insecure and vulnerable she really is.

She probably believes everyone will leave her. So far they have. It’s been justified, certainly, but this is her deepest fear, one she possibly has never acknowledged and maybe never will be able to swallow.

I think she is a terrible person but I do feel sorry for her for it.

There are many people that have turned out to be nasty despite the parents being perfectly nice people, and there are plenty of people that were raised by two horrible parents but have turned out fine. This is why I cant blame Alice's parents on how Alice has turned out (without knowing what they did, from Alice's story they appeared to lack boundaries, at least based on that house moving story) and why I don't think it's correct to blame the complete extent of Ella's behavior on Alice. Of course Alice carries huge blame here (and Ioan does presumably to an small extent too for letting it happen while they were married, that laid the foundations, but again, hard to say without being there), but I dont think that every child would end up escalating as much as Ella has, there will be children that don't react with abuse towards innocent people, but likewise other children may escalate even worse under Alice's watch. There are a lot more factors involved that shape a human than just parenting.

I'd say Elsie is how the average child copes. Resisting the attempts of alienation for a long time, and then after this still capable to not be toxic (the text messages to her dad showed this, also the fact that on that fateful day Ioan opened his arms to hug her showed that at the time he believed that affection was normal between them). Sure, she had a break down (a Evans Trademark) and was hysterically laughing and what not, but these are the kind of things that I think are to be expected if you are under that enormous mental stress as a child (and on that particular day the pressure was particulary high as they were on a mission and had initially failed). Of course in the interest of fairness I think it's easier for her than for Ella, the older sibling always has more responsibilities. I reckon when Ella turns 18 (maybe already at 16 when teenagers become a lot more independent) the situation will change and Elsie will be the one that Alice will focus on. I am obviously not saying that she will then act out the same way as her sister, they seem to be completely different characters even before the divorce, but I would like to mention that regardless.

At the end of the day my point is that while it's right to feel for children, it is very important to not make excuses, because otherwise recovery will be impossible.

This guy did what Ioan should have done and left his entitled spoiled wife after 3 years. Poor Ioan was just too much of a nice guy.

Husband divorces 'entitled' stay-at-home wife after birth of child

The anonymous man, 30, from the US, shared his dilemma on Reddit 's Am I the A****** forum. Stock photo

www.dailymail.co.uk

tbh at least this woman suggested to not have daycare and at least save that money. Alice had two housekeepers while taking care of her kids instead!

 

[Loveu2]

She is a classic case of being too dumb to exact revenge. How do you try to get revenge and mess your own self up that bad. She has the vindictiveness but not the smarts to exact revenge.
She wasted a boat load of money, the prenup was upheld, she will have to share custody, she has no job, no money and the cherry, she will have to return all the household contents. She 's not even getting the satisfaction of keeping his furniture. We might not like it but those might be some expensive furniture. He has ghosted her completely. In his world she is not even a blip. Plus he is going to marry Bianca.

I wouldn't want any of the furniture that has been in Alice's possession. If it's expensive, I would sell it just so she didn't get to keep it.

 

[Fioled]

@Ametrine today in work I sent out a letter in Gill Sans #iykyk

 

[marjorytrashheap]

Marcia has been outed as the owner of that account. That is her account.

LOL that was obvious.

 

[Bluntastitganache]

Oh boy that Kelly Rutherford is a real piece of work isn't she.
We all know what she did and how it back fired on her, she's the last person you would want advice from. omg

 

[ChangeYourName]

People are right to be concerned that Ella is at risk of growing up to become Alice 2.0 and it begs the question what turned Alice into Alice? We know her mother had mental health issues and father was distant.

NPD and BPD are disorders that take root, usually (not always), in early childhood when the child doesn’t get the safe and secure loving relationships with its parents that it needs.

I agree with all of you that Alice is abominable and her behaviour is vile. I do wonder where it started though. It strikes me that Alice, at her very core, has never grown beyond the wounded child. What caused her to develop as she did?

And if many here are empathetic to Ella and fear for what this whole situation could imprint on her future potentially disordered self, why the lack of empathy for Alice?

She has done terrible things to Ioan, Bianca, the children, family members etc and Ihope the court will put measures in place to try to mitigate, but I also hope somewhere along the line Alice gets some help because she isn’t a happy person, she never has been and her spoilt behaviour and thirst for compliments shows how insecure and vulnerable she really is.

She probably believes everyone will leave her. So far they have. It’s been justified, certainly, but this is her deepest fear, one she possibly has never acknowledged and maybe never will be able to swallow.

I think she is a terrible person but I do feel sorry for her for it.

You’re a better person than I. ‘Cos I am firmly in the “Nah, duck her” camp.

 

[Hiraeth]

Knew as soon as I saw that account who that was. She gives herself away too easily.

She really does. And her tiny mind is incapable of understanding that there is more than one blonde California lawyer who is interested in this case. She still thinks I'm someone else!

 

[WinterSolstice]

You’re a better person than I. ‘Cos I am firmly in the “Nah, duck her” camp.

Yup, never waste your empathy on a narc, they’ll only take it and use it against you.

Also didn’t someone post an article that suggested narcissism is more likely caused by over-indulgence rather than trauma or abuse?

 

[Treacletrixter]

There are many people that have turned out to be nasty despite the parents being perfectly nice people, and there are plenty of people that were raised by two horrible parents but have turned out fine. This is why I cant blame Alice's parents on how Alice has turned out (without knowing what they did, from Alice's story they appeared to lack boundaries, at least based on that house moving story) and why I don't think it's correct to blame the complete extent of Ella's behavior on Alice. Of course Alice carries huge blame here (and Ioan does presumably to an small extent too for letting it happen while they were married, that laid the foundations, but again, hard to say without being there), but I dont think that every child would end up escalating as much as Ella has, there will be children that don't react with abuse towards innocent people, but likewise other children may escalate even worse under Alice's watch. There are a lot more factors involved that shape a human than just parenting.

I'd say Elsie is how the average child copes. Resisting the attempts of alienation for a long time, and then after this still capable to not be toxic (the text messages to her dad showed this, also the fact that on that fateful day Ioan opened his arms to hug her showed that at the time he believed that affection was normal between them). Sure, she had a break down (a Evans Trademark) and was hysterically laughing and what not, but these are the kind of things that I think are to be expected if you are under that enormous mental stress as a child (and on that particular day the pressure was particulary high as they were on a mission and had initially failed). Of course in the interest of fairness I think it's easier for her than for Ella, the older sibling always has more responsibilities. I reckon when Ella turns 18 (maybe already at 16 when teenagers become a lot more independent) the situation will change and Elsie will be the one that Alice will focus on. I am obviously not saying that she will then act out the same way as her sister, they seem to be completely different characters even before the divorce, but I would like to mention that regardless.

At the end of the day my point is that while it's right to feel for children, it is very important to not make excuses, because otherwise recovery will be impossible.


tbh at least this woman suggested to not have daycare and at least save that money. Alice had two housekeepers while taking care of her kids instead!

I agree on not assuming there was an issue with Alices parents. No one knows what causes narcissistic behaviours. There is no reason to conclude her parents were the source of the problem. The fact her father doesn’t engage with her provocation shows he is the opposite of toxic.
There could easily be a number of factors that created the Alice we see today. Not all had to happen to childhood and not all need to be nurture based. I don’t even believe the house move story. Sounds like a vainglorious yarn or appropriation by Alice.

One of the issues that might be masked here is a neurological problem which could be hereditary. Solely focusing on the influence of Alice being the root cause of behaviour could mean a more appropriate and treatable diagnosis is missed. I am not saying this is the case. I’m not saying living with Alice would not make it worse. I hope the evaluation and any assessment considers a wide range of causes for someone to be acting out in this way.