Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.

[CookieMonsta]

in a way it's extra sad because obviously he isnt only doing it to make a paper trail to prove the publuc that he didnt abandoned them but genuinely wants a relationship with them AND for them to be properly raised. hence the no phone thingy in order to fix Alice's horrible parenting. And the b*** is trying to use this against him.

A lot of parents insist on designated no screen time nowadays, to try and have family time uninterrupted with phones, laptops, games, etc. Even if he wasn't going through this horrendous custody case it's a smart and healthy thing to do Imo. But like you said, AE will even twist and use good parenting against him, no matter how it affects the kids.

 

[ButterTart]

Devils avocado here - The key thing against Ioan is Alice has been primary caregiver for years. She isn't going to work and is likely not to get work even if she tries. Unfortunately her excuses are somewhat valid in that
1) she is in her mid 50's in an ageist industry and has no other training (nor income for said training)
2) has not worked for a very long period of time, with Ioan's implicit agreement as he did not challenge the status quo
3) she is 'sick' (and lets hope if she uses this one, the witch is forced to provide evidence)
4) she is only likely to get low paid work and won't be able to afford childcare (Ioan could pick up the slack but this leads to:
5) Ioan has to work and unless he is prepared to stop being an actor he will have to go where the work is. He can't do 50/50 on that and his schedule will be erratic - maybe he could argue that the chunks of time he is home he has the kids 100% of the time but will the court see this in the best interests of the children re: stability and will Alice agree?
We know Alice is a terrible mother but she is not abusive or neglectful to the children against the measurements of the court - and if she were, Ioan would come out looking really bad for allowing her to be primary custodian for years without a peep. Why only now is he objecting? A bit like Ant Anstead trying to get 100% custody - his lawyers clearly told him he had no hope in hell - they eventually settled for 50/50 - but he has an ex like Alice and in reality his 50% will be PA'd down to 0-5%.

I love avocados...

1. A judge can order a seek-work order. There is nothing preventing her from looking for work - any work she is capable of doing. It doesn't have to be acting-related.
2. Doesn't matter that she hasn't worked - her circumstances have changed.
3. She can't claim sickness or disability without medical proof. She sure was walking briskly into and out of court the other day.
4. Doesn't matter in the eyes of the court.
5. He can have a nanny stay with the kids, just as they did when he lived with Alice.

She can potentially be seen as neglectful if for example she pulled Ella out of school and she has been "home schooled" and the court can be shown that it isn't working because Alice isn't providing oversight. His video transcripts show clear abuse and that's only two of the ones he probably has. I am betting he has plenty of evidence of neglect and potential abuse. Ant Antstead = UK law...

 

[Obsolete Boomer]

Devils avocado here - The key thing against Ioan is Alice has been primary caregiver for years. She isn't going to work and is likely not to get work even if she tries. Unfortunately her excuses are somewhat valid in that
1) she is in her mid 50's in an ageist industry and has no other training (nor income for said training)
2) has not worked for a very long period of time, with Ioan's implicit agreement as he did not challenge the status quo
3) she is 'sick' (and lets hope if she uses this one, the witch is forced to provide evidence)
4) she is only likely to get low paid work and won't be able to afford childcare (Ioan could pick up the slack but this leads to:
5) Ioan has to work and unless he is prepared to stop being an actor he will have to go where the work is. He can't do 50/50 on that and his schedule will be erratic - maybe he could argue that the chunks of time he is home he has the kids 100% of the time but will the court see this in the best interests of the children re: stability and will Alice agree?
We know Alice is a terrible mother but she is not abusive or neglectful to the children against the measurements of the court - and if she were, Ioan would come out looking really bad for allowing her to be primary custodian for years without a peep. Why only now is he objecting? A bit like Ant Anstead trying to get 100% custody - his lawyers clearly told him he had no hope in hell - they eventually settled for 50/50 - but he has an ex like Alice and in reality his 50% will be PA'd down to 0-5%.

I hope he gets 100% custody, gets a well-paid franchise role and rehires Gloria as a big duck you to Malice.

 

[BingoFlamingo]

I keep coming back to this post of yours, @klarakluckbag. I wish there was a way to pin notable posts in a thread, so that anyone coming here would see it first off. What you wrote is so true, and so beautifully put.

Perhaps it can go in the wiki ?

 

[MrsDimSum]

Devils avocado here - The key thing against Ioan is Alice has been primary caregiver for years. She isn't going to work and is likely not to get work even if she tries. Unfortunately her excuses are somewhat valid in that
1) she is in her mid 50's in an ageist industry and has no other training (nor income for said training)
2) has not worked for a very long period of time, with Ioan's implicit agreement as he did not challenge the status quo
3) she is 'sick' (and lets hope if she uses this one, the witch is forced to provide evidence)
4) she is only likely to get low paid work and won't be able to afford childcare (Ioan could pick up the slack but this leads to:
5) Ioan has to work and unless he is prepared to stop being an actor he will have to go where the work is. He can't do 50/50 on that and his schedule will be erratic - maybe he could argue that the chunks of time he is home he has the kids 100% of the time but will the court see this in the best interests of the children re: stability and will Alice agree?
We know Alice is a terrible mother but she is not abusive or neglectful to the children against the measurements of the court - and if she were, Ioan would come out looking really bad for allowing her to be primary custodian for years without a peep. Why only now is he objecting? A bit like Ant Anstead trying to get 100% custody - his lawyers clearly told him he had no hope in hell - they eventually settled for 50/50 - but he has an ex like Alice and in reality his 50% will be PA'd down to 0-5%.

I would also question her being the primary care giver given that the girls have had Nannies all their lives until the last few months. Sometimes 2 nannies? I am sure part of IG paying Gloria for so long when money was tight was so he knew his girls were well cared for by Gloria

 

[CookieMonsta]

Not sure I totally agree with this - I don't think Ioan can get, nor would want 100% custody. He is in a difficult place in that he is a B-/C+ list actor and right now has to take what work is given and invariably this means working away from home for large chunks. He also made a key mistake, in my opinion, in going to Australia and missing 2 key therapy sessions - I question whether that was essential. That, together with his extended holiday in the UK is likely to have given the girls the firm impression that they come second after Bianca. This, with the other missing session (work in NY) plus Alice's shenanigans mean the therapy has not happened meaningfully for the girls at a critical time. I think Ioan is in a truly awful position but I also think he has made mistakes.
The likelihood of him getting 100% custody is moot anyway. No-one can prove - to the burden of proof required for the courts/CPS - that Alice is abusive or neglectful to her children. Her PA is clear but again that has gone on so long now and is so entrenched that it may work against Ioan getting any custody at all (in particular for Ella as she may refuse to engage and the courts won't force her). If regular therapy isn't immediately instituted (and it's doubtful it will for months and months due to the slow pace of the court) it's unlikely anything will change. And if therapy doesn't work, the only thing to hope is that Alice will do a Betty Broderick and drop the kids off with him to try and break up him and B.
It is a horrible crappy situation, but sadly it's one that happens on an all-too regular basis in divorce cases. Unfortunately it is usually the father who is alienated. Alice, the evil bleep, will likely succeed with her PA in the short term, but long term, once they are adult, I am sure they will start to see the truth and will re-develop a relationship with Ioan.

Hopefully he is looking into getting other work, either bts in the industry or whatever else he can get. If Home Depot is good enough for AE to provide for her kids, Imo it's good enough for IG. Yes acting is his dream job, but we aren't all lucky enough to do our dream job, especially not when we have kids who depend on us to shelter, feed, clothe & educate them.

 

[Arctic Ocean]

Okay, so I'm not sure whether it was my post that kicked off the outrage on behalf of Ella, but I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't victim-blaming or insulting the kid. I said very clearly that it is Alice talking, not Ella; the girl is just repeating what she hears at home. I was angry at the content of the message, not the messenger, but I'm sorry if this was considered offensive.

Back to reading quietly.

 

[StoneMountain]

Perhaps it can go in the wiki ?

Ioan's walk --
I saved the comments this way:

Spoiler: klarakluckbag's comment

@klarakluckbag

 

[BingoFlamingo]

He’s a classically trained RADA actor, he can find work and some the rubbish he’s taken in the past after Forever was cancelled shows he will do what it takes to get any work. Sure he might have fallen off the radar and will need to audition now but I am sure he will get work again. Sure he’s not a Daniel Day Lewis but I genuinely think he’s on a par with Cumberbatch (rewatching Spider-Man over the weekend reminded me how awful an accent he has as DR Strange!) or Redmayne (the wizard films weren’t his finest work).
I’m watching Liar again and he does a great job in that. He really does. There’s so much content out there with all the streaming. There’s something for him. For sure.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

Poor Alice has nobody. Nobody is so alone as Alice. Nobody has lost so many people by suicide. Nobody has been abandoned like Alice. No friends no family. Her mother died. Her father abandoned her when he met the wicked stepmother. Now all alone when they go and have their time with Ioan and she is left out and not included. Poor Alice. what will she do to herself when they are not there? She needs them and they are the only people she has got in the world. They can't abandon in her too.
This is what they are having drummed into them and this is why they will never be able to just be children and enjoy time with their father.

She was feeding them this narrative even before the split. They have been groomed for a very long time.

I suspect they are being groomed to be her carers due to her fictitious 102 ailments too. They will never be able to leave her unless they go NC. It's 'the babies can back me or they can duck off' as we know.

 

[plinky2]

or she tried to elbow her father into letting her play with her phone by calling the monster. I also assume that the walking away after 10 minutes is in parts because she/they didnt like whatever boundaries may set and not only because Alice will raise hell.

much as we want to see the child purely threatened by Alice it's quite obvious that many actions are "just" rebelling against proper parenting, except that thanks to Alice she/they has or have learned to not respect the father and instead of a bit acting out restoring to insults and leaving.

I thought a lot about this as the child in this situation and as a mother whose children were unfortunately exposed to toxic parenting and my conclusion is that Ella is not a streetwise, mature 13yo, she still calls her parents mummy and daddy, and still needs a lot of reassurance from them. A more mature teenager who knows their own mind is one thing, but nothing about Ella really suggests that she is just headstrong and strong willed, knows her own path in life - she sounds like a stressed out angry wreck who makes panicked decisions out of fear and paranoia. The fact she actually gets up and ready to go to his house then leaves will not be about boundaries, Alice has already primed her with fear and paranoia that day. Sometimes Ella had managed to stay all day, so something is very off here. If she was flat out refusing to ever see or speak to him I would possibly think differently and Ioan may have to respect her choice. She keeps contact with him though, so she still has a tie to him. This is why I think she is so mad at him and wants him to fix it, somehow

 

[CookieMonsta]

I'm not sure if someone has already said this but narcissists see their children as an extension of themselves. Fictional example Tommy Lee Royce in Happy Valley, and IRL Jeanette McCurdys mum (If you haven't read Jeanette's book I'm Glad My Mom Died then it's absolutely harrowing but a vital read to educate on non physical child abuse).

It's pretty clear Ella is the main bargaining chip here. Unfortunately, Alice can't see the enormous amount of damage she is inflicting on her and poor Elsie probably wants to be with her sister and not alone with her father because of how Ella appears to feel about him.

Unless some Judge/CPS steps in then the damage caused will be irreversible. Jeanette McCurdy is still struggling and admits in her book she thinks she will do all her life.

Ioan is really stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't he? He must be absolutely exhausted. A resolution to this situation cannot come fast enough.

Sadly, I honestly believe that even if AE could see the full extent of the damage she is inflicting on the girls, she still wouldn't care. At best she'd think it was unfortunate but justifiable collateral damage, at worst I just really don't think she cares. She's not the smartest person in the room, but neither is she THAT stupid. She knows what she's doing to those girls but it doesn't stop her, she just keeps escalating.

Spoiler: Welcome to regular commenting!

I'm happy you've decided to continue commenting here. Your insights and wisdom is very welcome, and I hope these threads will be as cathartic for you as they have been for me.

 

[Endora]

Alice trying to make out that (a) she's called her lawyer on a Saturday and (b) the lawyer answered and (c) the lawyer advised her she would call the police about Ioan asking the kids to put their phones down.

At first I thought it odd that these conversations with the kids were on speaker until I realized that it was Alice's way of sidestepping the restriction that she not speak directly to Ioan.

 

[CookieMonsta]

Apologies for just barging in … I’m a reader not a poster …
but one positive in the whole sorry saga is that there seems to be a number of strong, kind women on the sidelines (Ioan’s mum, Bianca, Gloria and now Iris and Gina that we are aware of) who have stepped up and hopefully will be there to help the girls through whatever comes next in a positive role model way.

Please don't apologise. You're not barging in at all. And while we use the c word a lot and make disgusting references to salad cream, we are actually pretty civilised and welcome newcomers, as long as they aren't batshit AE FM's!

 

[welp]

another Alice highlight

"I organized everything (Halloween), as always"

Reality

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

Sadly, I honestly believe that even if AE could see the full extent of the damage she is inflicting on the girls, she still wouldn't care. At best she'd think it was unfortunate but justifiable collateral damage, at worst I just really don't think she cares. She's not the smartest person in the room, but neither is she THAT stupid. She knows what she's doing to those girls but it doesn't stop her, she just keeps escalating.

Spoiler: Welcome to regular commenting!

I'm happy you've decided to continue commenting here. Your insights and wisdom is very welcome, and I hope these threads will be as cathartic for you as they have been for me.

You're so kind thank you.
I'll probably dip in and out, but you're right, it can be cathartic and I'm routing for Ioan and the girls to come out the other side as it is possible. Me and my daughter still have bad days, her especially, however we have each other and she knows she's loved unconditionally and theres never any real drama in our house as neither of us would stand it.

 

[CookieMonsta]

I lost my dad 2 months ago and this broke my heart

I'm sorry for your loss. May he RIP. I don't want to pry but I remember a post you made on the other thread last year and I hope you're ok.

 

[Hellodolly26]

What have I missed? I left the thread last night with 14 pages and I pop back on my tea break and we are nearly ready for a new thread. Any recap or direction would be very much appreciated

 

[BingoFlamingo]

I thought a lot about this as the child in this situation and as a mother whose children were unfortunately exposed to toxic parenting and my conclusion is that Ella is not a streetwise, mature 13yo, she still calls her parents mummy and daddy, and still needs a lot of reassurance from them. A more mature teenager who knows their own mind is one thing, but nothing about Ella really suggests that she is just headstrong and strong willed, knows her own path in life - she sounds like a stressed out angry wreck who makes panicked decisions out of fear and paranoia. The fact she actually gets up and ready to go to his house then leaves will not be about boundaries, Alice has already primed her with fear and paranoia that day. Sometimes Ella had managed to stay all day, so something is very off here. If she was flat out refusing to ever see or speak to him I would possibly think differently and Ioan may have to respect her choice. She keeps contact with him though, so she still has a tie to him. This is why I think she is so mad at him and wants him to fix it, somehow

This is interesting isn’t it, she stayed there a few single days without any incident that was in the court papers so it’s clear she wants a relationship with him.

 

[AllFurCoatNoKnickers1]

That statement by Yo broke my heart. BUT as someone with a narc ex who did his absolute best to poison our kids against me by constantly badmouthing me and interrupting calls and walking in on FaceTime calls … this all sounds so familiar. He is still constantly looking for ways to create drama. Because trust me - narcs thrive on drama. I was consistent with my kids. I kept my mouth shut about their dad. Eventually they got old enough to figure out exactly who and what he is. My kids and I are super close. I doubt they’ll ever be close with their dad again. Kids are smart. They can see what’s going on. Those girls are in the midst of psychological warfare by their mother. But their dad is consistent and calm and loving and theyll see that. I have no doubt his heart is broken. But therapy will do wonders for them and even if it takes time, I think he’ll have his girls back someday. Malice’s reign of terror won’t end - I speak from experience - but he’s doing the right thing and centering the kids and their needs and i believe he’s getting good legal advice.