Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.

[ButterTart]

Not true - she will likely be charged with a 'wobbler' misdemeanour. The rebuttal presumption against custody can be argued against. The key issue is the best interests of the child. There is no physical violence against the children and the children have resided with Alice for the majority of their time for years. The arguments against the rebuttal presumption are:

1. Whether the alleged abuser has demonstrated that giving sole custody or joint custody of a child to him or her is in the best interest of the child.
2. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed a batterer’s treatment program that meets the criteria outlined in subdivision (c) of Section 1203.097 of the Penal Code. Even if not ordered, a batterer’s intervention program is almost universally required by family court judges when a litigant is attempting to overcome the Family Code 3044 presumption. [Not applicable to Alice as no physical violence]
3. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed an alcohol and chemical dependency program if the court determines that counseling is appropriate. [Not applicable as court has not made this determination - but hopefully will do so]
4. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed parenting classes if the court determines the classes to be appropriate. [She has completed the required parenting classes. Hopefully the court will order more]
5. Whether the alleged abuser is on probation or parole, and whether he or she has complied with the terms and conditions of their probation or parole. This is even more important when the criminal conviction relates to domestic violence. [Not applicable to Alice and unlikely to become applicable - likelihood is misdemeanour wobbler charge]
6. Whether the alleged abuser is restrained by a protective order or restraining order, and whether he or she has complied with its terms and conditions. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]
7. Whether the alleged abuser has committed any further acts of domestic violence. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]

Unfortunately, Alice has a strong chance to legally overturn the rebuttal presumption on the key item of 'in the best interests of the children'

Disagree. I don't think it's going to be that easy for her to prove she deserves custody. She has repeatedly broken the DVRO, which shows she is not willing to abide by a court order, to the point of having criminal charges laid. And you are wrong on point 6 - it absolutely matters and doesn't have anything to do with the children being a party to the RO. Same for point 7. It's enough she has a DVRO that she has willfully and repeatedly and knowingly broken. As for proving best interest, he has repeatedly shown and has proof of the things she has said and done and even the children are saying she is drinking too much.

She may get 50/50 but there is an equally good chance she won't. She could get 20/80 or nothing at all.

 

[DevonshirePixie]

Also Alice faux panics when Ella is there so ella is never able to be fully present she has to be on hand to give Alice reassurance 1 min after she’s walked out of the door. Ella also now is struggling to make a decision on her own without Alice’s instructions. When Ioan asked Ella to hand over her phone, this sounds like Ella freaked out about not being able to be in contact with Alice - knowing Alice wouldnt cope with that

You hit the nail on the end, poor Ella, she should be attached to her phone but not with that woman but her girlie friends on the other side, this sounds similar to the whole Diana, Princess of Wales and the young Prince William who become her sounding board (Unfortunately Martin Bashir did make her feel paranoid with his lies) but, still he was way too young to adult her and cope with his childhood/adolescence on top of being who he was (I'm glad he met Kate and her family, but, I digress) Anyway the walrus has totally fucked up there childhoods, and poor Elsie too, someone roll the walrus into the San Andreas Fault and pray for a mammoth earthquake.

 

[barre19]

She doesn’t deserve any custody let alone 50/50

She doesn’t deserve to be a mother.

 

[Autisteuse]

This is probably the worst 24 hours in the saga so far reading the latest documents submitted

It’s just so heartbreaking, infuriating, enraging, maddening and sad. Just when I think I can’t be any more shocked by the Narcbitch’s behaviour, she tops all her previous exploits with the most egregious abuse.
I went on to another thread last night for light relief after reading those documents but couldn’t find it in me to laugh. I shut Tattle down. And then woke at about 04:00 thinking of what IG is going through.
I don’t think he’s ever going to give up on his children. But I wonder what kind of effect it will have on his relationship with BW. She didn’t sign up for this, she has a serious medical condition, and the Narcbitch is never going to stop.

 

[House of Tea]

She doesn’t deserve to be a mother.

All that effort she had to have them, and she treats them so badly

 

[welshfitnessgirl]

Sorry for your loss

Thank you so much

 

[Invictus]

The fact Ella had to call her mom to prove her Dad made her turn off her phone says to me she was afraid of what Alice would do should she come home without a recording.

 

[SynthGirl]

Not true - she will likely be charged with a 'wobbler' misdemeanour. The rebuttal presumption against custody can be argued against. The key issue is the best interests of the child. There is no physical violence against the children and the children have resided with Alice for the majority of their time for years. The arguments against the rebuttal presumption are:

1. Whether the alleged abuser has demonstrated that giving sole custody or joint custody of a child to him or her is in the best interest of the child.
2. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed a batterer’s treatment program that meets the criteria outlined in subdivision (c) of Section 1203.097 of the Penal Code. Even if not ordered, a batterer’s intervention program is almost universally required by family court judges when a litigant is attempting to overcome the Family Code 3044 presumption. [Not applicable to Alice as no physical violence]
3. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed an alcohol and chemical dependency program if the court determines that counseling is appropriate. [Not applicable as court has not made this determination - but hopefully will do so]
4. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed parenting classes if the court determines the classes to be appropriate. [She has completed the required parenting classes. Hopefully the court will order more]
5. Whether the alleged abuser is on probation or parole, and whether he or she has complied with the terms and conditions of their probation or parole. This is even more important when the criminal conviction relates to domestic violence. [Not applicable to Alice and unlikely to become applicable - likelihood is misdemeanour wobbler charge]
6. Whether the alleged abuser is restrained by a protective order or restraining order, and whether he or she has complied with its terms and conditions. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]
7. Whether the alleged abuser has committed any further acts of domestic violence. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]

Unfortunately, Alice has a strong chance to legally overturn the rebuttal presumption on the key item of 'in the best interests of the children'

I totally agree. Alice isn't going to lose custody of those children yet. Ioan hasn't raised those kids in years now. And allowing Elsie under her thumb for over a year was Ioan's mistake. He made some poor choices of his own in that regard. She may well lose custody in a year for Elsie. Of course, by that point Ioan's career might be in full swing again and he's gone for months at a time. Ella is a lost cause. She is a teenager, and by 14 will be able to choose for herself. She won't choose Ioan and rules and his girlfriend with health problems that Ioan is constantly concerned about and dictating to his children. She just won't. Will she go over more often in a few years to at least stay? Yes, I believe so, as her fights escalate with Dearest Mummy.

And if by some bizarre chance he got custody in this year, that house would be a hell hole for Bianca. It won't be pretty. Does she have the wherewithal to live through that? I don't know. She's young.

 

[barre19]

One day, those children will remember their father walking behind them as they walked home after leaving their Saturday visitation with him less than an hour after arriving. They'll remember that he walked behind them, every time, to make sure that they got home safely.
They'll remember how he called them every week, even though their mother insulted, disparaged and harassed him, every single time. They'll remember that he spent almost every dollar that he had, on trying to make sure that he stayed in their lives, despite their mother's best efforts to keep him away, for no reason other than her being bitter and spiteful because her marriage had broken down.

One day, perhaps as adults, they'll read the court documents and realise that their father was not the bad guy in all this.

I keep coming back to this post of yours, @klarakluckbag. I wish there was a way to pin notable posts in a thread, so that anyone coming here would see it first off. What you wrote is so true, and so beautifully put.

 

[welp]

The fact Ella had to call her mom to prove her Dad made her turn off her phone says to me she was afraid of what Alice would do should she come home without a recording.

or she tried to elbow her father into letting her play with her phone by calling the monster. I also assume that the walking away after 10 minutes is in parts because she/they didnt like whatever boundaries may set and not only because Alice will raise hell.

much as we want to see the child purely threatened by Alice it's quite obvious that many actions are "just" rebelling against proper parenting, except that thanks to Alice she/they has or have learned to not respect the father and instead of a bit acting out restoring to insults and leaving.

 

[sweetnessfollows]

How would living with bianca impact custody for a one off one on week schedule?

Like not the Alice version where all things Bianca are abominations but the very real consideration a judge would have? Would it impact it all or a percentage?

 

[SC_love]

I keep coming back to this post of yours, @klarakluckbag. I wish there was a way to pin notable posts in a thread, so that anyone coming here would see it first off. What you wrote is so true, and so beautifully put.

I thought this too re pinning it. I can only hope the girls also read it one day.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

The fact Ella had to call her mom to prove her Dad made her turn off her phone says to me she was afraid of what Alice would do should she come home without a recording.

Visitations are definitely being recorded imo but IG says

"I asked everyone to put their phones in the center console of the car so we could have a nice, phone-free time."

We don't know if they were switched off or not. Alice kicked off years before when the kids had a play date and the mother asked them to put away their phones. That bleep said their human rights were being violated iirc. It seems to be her religion that you have to be glued to tech at all times. No wonder Ella was bewildered at IG's request.

 

[House of Tea]

Ioan won’t know what to do with himself when this is over. All that free headspace.

 

[SynthGirl]

or she tried to elbow her father into letting her play with her phone by calling the monster. I also assume that the walking away after 10 minutes is in parts because she/they didnt like whatever boundaries may set and not only because Alice will raise hell.

much as we want to see the child purely threatened by Alice it's quite obvious that many actions are "just" rebelling against proper parenting, except that thanks to Alice she/they has or have learned to not respect the father and instead of a bit acting out restoring to insults and leaving.

Agreed. She isn't just afraid of Alice and thus"ALL OF" her actions are that. Nope. She has tremendous anger towards Ioan and is definitely estranged from him. Sure, Alice has been a big part of encouraging that, but also a big part of that is there on Ella's own. And a lot of time has passed, and she's now entering her teenage years.

 

[ButterTart]

I totally agree. Alice isn't going to lose custody of those children yet. Ioan hasn't raised those kids in years now. And allowing Elsie under her thumb for over a year was Ioan's mistake. He made some poor choices of his own in that regard. She may well lose custody in a year for Elsie. Of course, by that point Ioan's career might be in full swing again and he's gone for months at a time. Ella is a lost cause. She is a teenager, and by 14 will be able to choose for herself. She won't choose Ioan and rules and his girlfriend with health problems that Ioan is constantly concerned about and dictating to his children. She just won't. Will she go over more often in a few years to at least stay? Yes, I believe so, as her fights escalate with Dearest Mummy.

And if by some bizarre chance he got custody in this year, that house would be a hell hole for Bianca. It won't be pretty. Does she have the wherewithal to live through that? I don't know. She's young.

Not saying it would be easy for Ioan to have 100% custody but t's a misconception that at age 14 a child can choose. They can make their preference known to the judge but he or she is under no obligation to accept that. Kids can't actually "choose" who they live with until they are 18.

The court considers a lot when deciding custody, including:

• each parent's history of caregiving for the child
• each parent's ability to be a fit parent
• the stability in each parent's household
• the child's health and safety
• either parent's history of abuse or domestic violence
• either parent's use of drugs or alcohol
• which parent is more likely to encourage a relationship between the child and the other parent
• whether either parent has made a false allegation of abuse against the other parent to gain an advantage in the litigation
• the residence of the child's siblings
• the child's preference, and
• any other factors relevant to the child's welfare. (Cal. Fam. Code § 3011.)

---

How would living with bianca impact custody for a one off one on week schedule?

Like not the Alice version where all things Bianca are abominations but the very real consideration a judge would have? Would it impact it all or a percentage?

It wouldn't. Parents are free to have their partners introduced to and yes, even live with their children unless there is some inherent danger to the kids.

 

[welp]

I totally agree. Alice isn't going to lose custody of those children yet. Ioan hasn't raised those kids in years now. And allowing Elsie under her thumb for over a year was Ioan's mistake. He made some poor choices of his own in that regard. She may well lose custody in a year for Elsie. Of course, by that point Ioan's career might be in full swing again and he's gone for months at a time. Ella is a lost cause. She is a teenager, and by 14 will be able to choose for herself. She won't choose Ioan and rules and his girlfriend with health problems that Ioan is constantly concerned about and dictating to his children. She just won't. Will she go over more often in a few years to at least stay? Yes, I believe so, as her fights escalate with Dearest Mummy.

And if by some bizarre chance he got custody in this year, that house would be a hell hole for Bianca. It won't be pretty. Does she have the wherewithal to live through that? I don't know. She's young.

Ella cannot chose when she is 14, a judge can consider her wishes but with how things are going that is unlikely. And I believe @ButterTart said once there is a court order you cannot chose for a while.

CA courts end almost always in 50/50, but without one party having a DVRO and breech. And they are not shy to "turf" kids out of the custody of a not cooperative parent if long term that's in their best interest. if recognised (which obviously is hard to prove) they dont reward a parent like this, especially one who legally will struggle to even get 50 %.

Obviously what the court decides will likely differ from what really happens. Ioan could get awarded 100 %, but the kids could still run away every week after 15 minutes to their mom for the rest of the week. I think it's important to make that distinction here.

 

[Endora]

Don’t forget Alice is not just alienating the girls from Ioan, she is denying them a relationship with grandparents and extended family as well.

And turning the older one into a Mean Girl.

 

[IamSpartacus]

Does anyone find it interesting that the girls often have Alice on speakerphone?
Is that a strategy on their part do you think? a way of siding with Ioan? or is that something Alice gets them to do as a way of communicating with Ioan?

also, what's with all the bleeping nowadays?

 

[Endora]

Alice's Public Defender is relative new to the legal game. He has only been practicing law for 3 years. He thinks she needs a 6-10 day trial? This isn't Court TV.

Oh, that explains it. His new client must have been making the poor guy's ears burn with her litany of complaints and promises of proof for days. He'll learn. Quickly.