Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.

[ButterTart]

I don't see why he can't get 100% custody with the obvious parental alienation going and if Alice is jailed for period of time in March, he will have to have them then. There are plenty of parents in similar situations to Ioan who have full custody of their children. They find ways to cope. What about the millions of couples, where one them dies suddenly?

I have friend who had a stroke out of the blue in October and it was bad as she wasn't found immediately, she was in a coma for a while and since then she has been a rehab facility. She was the driving force of the family, taking her kids to all the competitions around the USA. Her son is a rising NHL hope in his senior year at school. Her youngest daughter a possible Olympic equestrian, just a year younger than Ella. Immediately her family who live outside the US, came to their aid. Her friends rallied around and made sure that the children's lives continued as best they can in the circumstances. It worked so well, that nobody at the compay where her husband is a senior manager, knew about her illness until recently.

I realize that is not the same as this situation, but Ioan has proved he has a strong circle of friends who he can rely on by having them as chaperones when he has the girls. If he was granted full custody, I could imagine the Judge could agree to Ioan moving them to the UK where he has bigger support circle in his family and more chance of work. With the proviso that he pays for Alice's travel costs and accommodation. Kelly Rutherford is example, that it can work successfully. If Alice is jailed, her visitation would be limited anyway. Bianca has already indicated she enjoyed her time in the UK and got on well with his family. Alice doesn't have any of this. The girls would benefit from being removed from the immediate area where all this trauma has occurred. With therapy, kids can be very resilient.

The parental alienation isn't enough (unfortunately) to deny full custody and she is very unlikely to do any jail time come March.

 

[AllFurCoatNoKnickers1]

Sadly true. And to be a spy and an instigator. There doesn't seem to be any bond between the eldest and Ioan left. No contact might be the safest option right now until Ella grows up a bit.

It might be best if Ioan just had visitation with Elsie but of course she would be heavily pressured not to go by the other two.

100% disagree. Having the only sane parent give up on her and desert her completely - which is how she’d see it - would be devastating and have long-term repercussions on her and any relationship she has. She’s a child. And she’s being abused and controlled by her mother. The last thing she needs is her dad to turn his back on her. What do you think she’d take away from that?

 

[CookieMonsta]

One other thought I had was the tells from what Ella says. Yes she’s very angry at Ioan. But in Ioan’s documents she always talks about how this has affected Alice more than she talks about how it’s affecting her and Elsie as the children. She did mention school fees, and she mentions money to him many times but this is usually tied back to Alice and Bianca every time. So she will always parrot on about how B has ruined everything, lawyers fees, money problems and it’s always from Alice’s perspective. This is the biggest tell of PA, that Ella is now the spokesperson. Ioan has not outlined as many things she’s said about herself OUTSIDE of Alice’s POV, and nothing Elsie ever says.

It's heart-breaking, and so, so wrong. At 13 years old Ella is forced to be the mother, caregiver, best friend, confidante, protector, defender of her mother. She's probably also the nurse who puts her to bed and cleans up after AE after her drunken binges too...

 

[plinky2]

I agree with you and would like to reiterate to all Turds that I do not blame either child for one minute. Alice has done this to the girls, particularly Ella from birth. She was taught that material things matter most, to throw fits when not getting your way, to tell on Ioan if he attempted to enforce boundaries, and allowed them to do whatever they wanted. As Ella is the older of the two and has a completely different temperament to Elsie she is the one impacted the most. As an example I remember Alice herself mentioning that Ella demanded to go out to lunch at some burger restaurant at around age 9 or 10 and when the answer was no I got the distinct impression that she threw a huge tantrum. Also there is the very distinct possibility “once again I am not blaming the child” that one or both girls could have inherited the characteristics that make them more susceptible to certain behaviors. Obviously I don’t know this for certain, I’m mulling this around based on my big family of narcs as well as having successfully raised a child very much like Ella. Very intelligent, sensitive, and not easy to raise.

Thing is the burger situation could have been Alice doing a push pull routine - saying no, then saying yes, or Ioan saying no and her saying yes. That child has clearly been in the middle of these 2 from day 1 and Elsie is left alone as she’s not the sole focus like Ella. Usually in this situation, one child will be the main focus of the parents attention good and bad and really stuck between them. Alice has even confessed she chose to undermine Ioan in front of the kids and he says this too, so Ella has grown up quite confused and sensitive. It’s never really about the money, it’s about winning. Ella feels like he was safe, and consistent but also rubbish and weak according to Alice but now she’s even more unsure - he left her. He’s trying to win that back

What May come across in Ella is not an entitled selfish child but actually a huge amount of empathy (for her mother) and a strong view of what’s right and wrong

She just needs the right guidance

 

[AllFurCoatNoKnickers1]

It seemed like visitations were going really well. Bianca made the girls some vegan food perhaps her favourite recipe. Then Alice melted down over how well it was going, her online behaviour went south and the kids suddenly didn’t like going. The kids behaviour is based on what Alice tells them to do. Every time something happens like having to get your own internet and phone account Alice plays dumb and omg I got cut off, screams blue murder down the phone to Ella and she huffs home. There are huge games getting played here but it’s all on Alices say so. The kids are her puppets.

No. The kids are her victims.

 

[justhereforanoseylike]

The parental alienation isn't enough (unfortunately) to deny full custody and she is very unlikely to do any jail time come March.

Hopefully she get’s community service, with Ioan having the kids during that time. She wont be able to harass the kids with texts whilst shes litter picking the streets

 

[Invictus]

Alice is still a bleep. That's about it. And Marie can't read.

Thread title!!

 

[ButterTart]

Hopefully she get’s community service, with Ioan having the kids during that time. She wont be able to harass the kids with texts whilst shes litter picking the streets

Community service isn't a remedy; she's likely to get a fine. And a criminal record. Which will have a much harsher impact the next time she gets called up for violating the RO. Because I am certain there will be other occurrences.

 

[M33L4]

Community service isn't a remedy; she's likely to get a fine. And a criminal record. Which will have a much harsher impact the next time she gets called up for violating the RO. Because I am certain there will be other occurrences.

Without a doubt. And Ioan is meticulous in gathering the evidence against her. Unlike she does to him.

 

[Ally Pally]

Without a doubt. And Ioan is meticulous in gathering the evidence against her. Unlike she does to him.

I wonder if he has to give a victim impact statement on the effect it has had on him and Bianca?

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

Alice will raise hell to her if she spends time with Ioan, so just being with Alice the entire time is the better option mentally ironically enough.

Yes it's very complicated and saddening as IG said.

The way around what you said is for Ella to refuse to see Alice unless it's supervised contact where her attempts to 'raise hell' will be noted and spend the rest of the time with I and B. If she can walk out on IG then she can walk out on that bleep too. It's my solution but sadly I don't see it happening for reasons I explained before.

Also I'm not sure being with "Alice the entire time is the better option mentally". PA causes emotional distress not to mention hearing AE's glib talk about self-harm and dealing with her booze intake.

 

[CookieMonsta]

I agree with you and would like to reiterate to all Turds that I do not blame either child for one minute. Alice has done this to the girls, particularly Ella from birth. She was taught that material things matter most, to throw fits when not getting your way, to tell on Ioan if he attempted to enforce boundaries, and allowed them to do whatever they wanted. As Ella is the older of the two and has a completely different temperament to Elsie she is the one impacted the most. As an example I remember Alice herself mentioning that Ella demanded to go out to lunch at some burger restaurant at around age 9 or 10 and when the answer was no I got the distinct impression that she threw a huge tantrum. Also there is the very distinct possibility “once again I am not blaming the child” that one or both girls could have inherited the characteristics that make them more susceptible to certain behaviors. Obviously I don’t know this for certain, I’m mulling this around based on my big family of narcs as well as having successfully raised a child very much like Ella. Very intelligent, sensitive, and not easy to raise.

I just want to point out again that AE is a pathological liar and very probably a narc, and one of a narc abusers favourite forms of abuse is to spread lies about other people, "funny" stories that make them look bad but told with that jokey tone/attitude and I love them so much faux benevolence. AE constantly did this to IG, especially when she was posting about him on her SM against his wishes when they were still together.
Many Turds thought there was always at least a grain of truth in AE's words. Personally I don't think she'd know even a grain of truth if it walked up and walloped her in that ugly, bloated gob of hers.

 

[ButterTart]

I wonder if he has to give a victim impact statement on the effect it has had on him and Bianca?

No.

This isn't some huge criminal trial. It's a misdemeanor. No victim impact statements, no community service, unlikely there will be jail (though it's possible.)

 

[Blurp]

I agree. In my opinion Ella is so brainwashed, damaged, and so much like her mother that I seriously doubt he will ever have a decent relationship with her. Maybe he should give custody to that damn witch Alice and leave town. Then she won’t have anything to torment him or the girls over.

At the same time, I see a tiny bit of hope that even though she phoned mAlice when Ioan wanted the mobiles in the centre console for a phone-free time, she shut off the call to The Malignant One and complied when he said that he had no interest in their phones, just in time without them.

 

[welp]

I have one question: Marie says that the public defender informed her over the weekend of the charges. I obviously dont know how this works in Cali, but how can Alice have a public defender before she got in front of the judge, let alone without (supposedly) knowing that she has a court date? I always thought you get a public defender appointed at the arraignment if you qualify for it.

Now that we know that she has a male public defender I also start to agree that the woman in the car was possibly Ella

please put 'thread title' in bold - that's helpful for anyone scrolling the threads in search of suggestions.

(thanks - I'll delete this comment in a few minutes)

the wimp/super hero one has it pretty much won anyway

No.

This isn't some huge criminal trial. It's a misdemeanor. No victim impact statements, no community service, unlikely there will be jail (though it's possible.)

but a 10 days trial LMAO

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

That statement by Yo broke my heart. BUT as someone with a narc ex who did his absolute best to poison our kids against me by constantly badmouthing me and interrupting calls and walking in on FaceTime calls … this all sounds so familiar. He is still constantly looking for ways to create drama. Because trust me - narcs thrive on drama. I was consistent with my kids. I kept my mouth shut about their dad. Eventually they got old enough to figure out exactly who and what he is. My kids and I are super close. I doubt they’ll ever be close with their dad again. Kids are smart. They can see what’s going on. Those girls are in the midst of psychological warfare by their mother. But their dad is consistent and calm and loving and theyll see that. I have no doubt his heart is broken. But therapy will do wonders for them and even if it takes time, I think he’ll have his girls back someday. Malice’s reign of terror won’t end - I speak from experience - but he’s doing the right thing and centering the kids and their needs and i believe he’s getting good legal advice.

Sending you solidarity and strength we have similiar stories. Well done for breaking free. Hope you and your kids are doing well

 

[CookieMonsta]

@ButterTart I'm still astounded at Marie's negligence. Maybe I've watched too much TV/movies with corrupt lawyers -( or just too many crime shows like 48 Hours when the DA knows he's put an innocent person on death row but refuses to re-open the case cause it will look bad for his career), but could Marie be dodgy and is claiming not to have fully read the papers and seen the date to help AE duck around and delay even more?

ETA: sorry if that's an inappropriate question to ask you.

 

[kingseven]

One day, those children will remember their father walking behind them as they walked home after leaving their Saturday visitation with him less than an hour after arriving. They'll remember that he walked behind them, every time, to make sure that they got home safely.
They'll remember how he called them every week, even though their mother insulted, disparaged and harassed him, every single time. They'll remember that he spent almost every dollar that he had, on trying to make sure that he stayed in their lives, despite their mother's best efforts to keep him away, for no reason other than her being bitter and spiteful because her marriage had broken down.

One day, perhaps as adults, they'll read the court documents and realise that their father was not the bad guy in all this.

Although an open letter of support to Ioan could potentially be construed as breaking the ‘keep it on Tattle’ rule I feel like this post in particular should be immortalised somewhere. Maybe in the wiki or on the first post of each subsequent thread?

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

The last thing she needs is her dad to turn his back on her. What do you think she’d take away from that?

That Ioan isn't a whipping boy? That abusive behaviour isn't ok even if that bleep encourages it?

As I said it's a hard one. I wouldn't blame him for retreating at this stage and many men would. It need not be forever but in the short term things will get even worse. They have yet to vacate the house which will be a saga in itself. Ioan might marry and have more kids which Alice will use to create more havoc. He's in a very difficult spot with no easy answers.

 

[ButterTart]

I have one question: Marie says that the public defender informed her over the weekend of the charges. I obviously dont know how this works in Cali, but how can Alice have a public defender before she got in front of the judge, let alone without (supposedly) knowing that she has a court date? I always thought you get a public defender appointed at the arraignment if you qualify for it.

Now that we know that she has a male public defender I also start to agree that the woman in the car was possibly Ella


the wimp/super hero one has it pretty much won anyway



but a 10 days trial LMAO

Yeah, nothing about this makes a lot of sense. She would not have had a lawyer appointed until the actual hearing, but it's possible she called the court after she missed her first date and requested the process to be opened so one could represent her when she actually appeared. Also the 6-10 days sounds ridiculous. I would think you could dispatch this case in a day. Maybe one or two more required if witnesses couldn't appear on that day. The Alex Murdaugh double murder trial is anticipated to last three weeks, though the standard in South Carolina for a murder trial is ... a week.