Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.

[NarcRage]

What have I missed? I left the thread last night with 14 pages and I pop back on my tea break and we are nearly ready for a new thread. Any recap or direction would be very much appreciated

Alice is still a bleep. That's about it. And Marie can't read.

 

[CookieMonsta]

This is why Alice has them so isolated. No contact with the wider family - I am not even sure the real Tone has phone contact with them. The kids are basically in a cult and it is worrying that we don't know if Ella has a school or not. They are totally dependent on Alice and forget that they only have a roof over their heads and food etc is because of the dad they refuse to see.

Alice is also showering them with expensive tit too and lets them do what they want (except if they want to see their dad). They will love her and want to please her despite everything. That said, there must be a lot of gossip secretly amongst Ella's friends. I would be mortified if I was her. It is noticable that the kids haven't featured on her SM in a good while. CF posted them though.

I wouldn't be surprised if amongst her other lies, AE is telling them she is the one with the money that's paying for their home, food, etc. She's probably even told them it was IG who stole from her or from the family household money/savings.

 

[plinky2]

It’s all fear and control, you will likely be able to tie each event to something that has been happening - therapy, a lawyer letter, Alice’s health situation, B posting on Insta - each time there was an issue at custody, it was reactive to something that had happened and Alice was trying to punish him. Then sometimes they all went for 6 hours and it was calm. Super disconcerting for the girls.

My feeling is on the days the girls didn’t stay, they already knew they wouldn’t be when they left because Alice had been on at them, or was pretending to be sick/sad, and the reward feeling of relief at giving in to her is probably a bigger payoff than going home later on and facing her wrath then. She love bombs them, so them giving in to her will make her victoriously happy. $50 pancakes all round

 

[AllFurCoatNoKnickers1]

I totally agree. Alice isn't going to lose custody of those children yet. Ioan hasn't raised those kids in years now. And allowing Elsie under her thumb for over a year was Ioan's mistake. He made some poor choices of his own in that regard. She may well lose custody in a year for Elsie. Of course, by that point Ioan's career might be in full swing again and he's gone for months at a time. Ella is a lost cause. She is a teenager, and by 14 will be able to choose for herself. She won't choose Ioan and rules and his girlfriend with health problems that Ioan is constantly concerned about and dictating to his children. She just won't. Will she go over more often in a few years to at least stay? Yes, I believe so, as her fights escalate with Dearest Mummy.

And if by some bizarre chance he got custody in this year, that house would be a hell hole for Bianca. It won't be pretty. Does she have the wherewithal to live through that? I don't know. She's young.

I disagree. Ella isn’t a lost cause. I hate the way that sounds. She’s a kid who desperately needs a parent who loves her. A good therapist can do wonders. And at 14 i don’t think she can just do as she pleases. She can have a say. But ultimately I think the court still decides what’s in their best interest. Especially in a case like this.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

What is Ella supposed to do?

If I was Ella I would want to live with Ioan and Bianca. Realistically that would be the best option for her but she is so enmeshed and parentified by that bleep that she can't see it. Not surprising for a 13 yo who has been groomed from birth and who is now thoroughly PAed too. Also, I was never the GC so I don't know what it's like. It makes you even more enmeshed with the narc parent.

The thing about kids is they don't always know what's best for themselves. That's why they have adults and guardians to protect them, who are allowed to override their bad decisions. Kids aren't allowed smoke, drink etc for a reason. Realistically this tit show has being allowed to go on for WAY too long and now things are where they are. Not blaming IG - as I said before, in the UK, he could have gone to Children's Services to get support, but the CPS in the US is tit. That bleep is playing for time for a reason - it works to her advantage re the PA and ruining IG financially.

There is a place of balance between not blaming a groomed minor but also not condoning their harmful behaviour either. That's where I am.

 

[welp]

I thought a lot about this as the child in this situation and as a mother whose children were unfortunately exposed to toxic parenting and my conclusion is that Ella is not a streetwise, mature 13yo, she still calls her parents mummy and daddy, and still needs a lot of reassurance from them. A more mature teenager who knows their own mind is one thing, but nothing about Ella really suggests that she is just headstrong and strong willed, knows her own path in life - she sounds like a stressed out angry wreck who makes panicked decisions out of fear and paranoia. The fact she actually gets up and ready to go to his house then leaves will not be about boundaries, Alice has already primed her with fear and paranoia that day. Sometimes Ella had managed to stay all day, so something is very off here. If she was flat out refusing to ever see or speak to him I would possibly think differently and Ioan may have to respect her choice. She keeps contact with him though, so she still has a tie to him. This is why I think she is so mad at him and wants him to fix it, somehow

This is interesting isn’t it, she stayed there a few single days without any incident that was in the court papers so it’s clear she wants a relationship with him.

It is indeed interesting that the first few visitations had no incident (which doesnt mean it went well, but also not bad)

I reckon that Alice at some point got rattled because they went there regulary without incident and the bogan also gave them food, and then she started the psycho terror properly again. It's probably also why Ella went off on him (again) by begging him to talk to Alice. They probably think that Alice will be normal again if she could talk to him (she wont), and thus (besides leaving them alone with Alice in the first place and him applying normal parenting rules) there is probably some anger that he is not "helping" them with this.

 

[Hellodolly26]

Alice is still a bleep. That's about it. And Marie can't read.

Oh I know Marie can't read and Alice will always be a bleep lol

Is there more documents?

 

[M33L4]

Ioan has good counsel and a good therapist by all accounts. Keep strong “Saint” Ioan.
No one knows Alice better than him and he’s clearly winning. He’s the antithesis of Alice and the kids will hopefully see it.

 

[plinky2]

One other thought I had was the tells from what Ella says. Yes she’s very angry at Ioan. But in Ioan’s documents she always talks about how this has affected Alice more than she talks about how it’s affecting her and Elsie as the children. She did mention school fees, and she mentions money to him many times but this is usually tied back to Alice and Bianca every time. So she will always parrot on about how B has ruined everything, lawyers fees, money problems and it’s always from Alice’s perspective. This is the biggest tell of PA, that Ella is now the spokesperson. Ioan has not outlined as many things she’s said about herself OUTSIDE of Alice’s POV, and nothing Elsie ever says.

 

[IHateHadargoyle]

My opinion on the daughters here. They are subject to abuse the same as Ioan was before he left, and look how difficult that was for him, and the toll it has taken on him. These are two children for goodness sake. One entering puberty which is difficult enough to navigate even in the best and most stable of homes. Ella doesn’t have the safety net of that even. She is taking on the role of care giver and confidante of her monster of a mother, and has been told things/lies that no child of her age should have to deal with. She is probably trying to look after her little sister at the same time as trying to look after herself. They know that if they develop a good relationship with their father, as seemed to be happening, the Abuser will kick off, threaten all sorts and terrify her children. What is Ella supposed to do? She is a child who should have been protected, loved, and shielded from most of this. As it is she has to cope the best she can, so is it surprising she acts up. I think it was Plinky who said that the child who is acting out the worst, is the one who needs love the most. I agree, and I’m sure that Ioan understands this. He knows the Abuser and how she works, the best.
None of what is going on should be laid at the eldest daughter’s door, it is all down to the Abuser. The Abuser is an evil twisted witch who will stop at nothing to destroy the lives of those babies, as that is what will hurt Ioan the most.
My heart breaks for those girls, Ella in particular. We don’t victim blame Ioan, so I think we should give Ella, and Elsie the same courtesy. They are much less able to withstand the Abuser than Ioan, and look what she has done to him.

That creature deserves nothing less than the cardboard box, shopping trolley, poverty and homelessness. That is my view and I hope that the universe is working out her comeuppance as I type this. It can’t come soon enough.

Rant over, for the time being at least. This latest tit has upset me more than anything else.

I agree with you and would like to reiterate to all Turds that I do not blame either child for one minute. Alice has done this to the girls, particularly Ella from birth. She was taught that material things matter most, to throw fits when not getting your way, to tell on Ioan if he attempted to enforce boundaries, and allowed them to do whatever they wanted. As Ella is the older of the two and has a completely different temperament to Elsie she is the one impacted the most. As an example I remember Alice herself mentioning that Ella demanded to go out to lunch at some burger restaurant at around age 9 or 10 and when the answer was no I got the distinct impression that she threw a huge tantrum. Also there is the very distinct possibility “once again I am not blaming the child” that one or both girls could have inherited the characteristics that make them more susceptible to certain behaviors. Obviously I don’t know this for certain, I’m mulling this around based on my big family of narcs as well as having successfully raised a child very much like Ella. Very intelligent, sensitive, and not easy to raise.

 

[Ametrine]

another Alice highlight

"I organized everything (Halloween), as always"

Reality
View attachment 1927180
View attachment 1927181

Typical Alice. She fails to do something she should have, and then turns to Twitter to try and absolve herself of all blame, by getting 'likes' and comments from her internet friends.

But she doesn't realise her convoluted explanations actually expose her for her crap parenting skills. Maybe she would have had time to make a Halloween outfit if she spent less time Tweeting?

 

[CookieMonsta]

I’m not sure about that. I believe that she has conflicted feelings. When Ioan explained rationally why he wants her to leave her phone she gave it to him. She can understand. The problem is that Malice won’t let the kid breathe. She’s poisoning her 24/7 and she has probably alienated her from everyone. Elsie is often out with friends and their families. Ella seems constantly at home.

We only have AE's claims that Elsie is often out with friends and their families. And proof now that at least one of those times that claim was an outright lie.

 

[sweetnessfollows]

Is the judge for custody the same judge that did the DVRO?

 

[MissMissMissy]

Alice Evans nerves lies, she just breaks court orders, snitches and spies

 

[CookieMonsta]

My opinion on the daughters here. They are subject to abuse the same as Ioan was before he left, and look how difficult that was for him, and the toll it has taken on him. These are two children for goodness sake. One entering puberty which is difficult enough to navigate even in the best and most stable of homes. Ella doesn’t have the safety net of that even. She is taking on the role of care giver and confidante of her monster of a mother, and has been told things/lies that no child of her age should have to deal with. She is probably trying to look after her little sister at the same time as trying to look after herself. They know that if they develop a good relationship with their father, as seemed to be happening, the Abuser will kick off, threaten all sorts and terrify her children. What is Ella supposed to do? She is a child who should have been protected, loved, and shielded from most of this. As it is she has to cope the best she can, so is it surprising she acts up. I think it was Plinky who said that the child who is acting out the worst, is the one who needs love the most. I agree, and I’m sure that Ioan understands this. He knows the Abuser and how she works, the best.
None of what is going on should be laid at the eldest daughter’s door, it is all down to the Abuser. The Abuser is an evil twisted witch who will stop at nothing to destroy the lives of those babies, as that is what will hurt Ioan the most.
My heart breaks for those girls, Ella in particular. We don’t victim blame Ioan, so I think we should give Ella, and Elsie the same courtesy. They are much less able to withstand the Abuser than Ioan, and look what she has done to him.

That creature deserves nothing less than the cardboard box, shopping trolley, poverty and homelessness. That is my view and I hope that the universe is working out her comeuppance as I type this. It can’t come soon enough.

Rant over, for the time being at least. This latest tit has upset me more than anything else.

 

[ButterTart]

One other thought I had was the tells from what Ella says. Yes she’s very angry at Ioan. But in Ioan’s documents she always talks about how this has affected Alice more than she talks about how it’s affecting her and Elsie as the children. She did mention school fees, and she mentions money to him many times but this is usually tied back to Alice and Bianca every time. So she will always parrot on about how B has ruined everything, lawyers fees, money problems and it’s always from Alice’s perspective. This is the biggest tell of PA, that Ella is now the spokesperson. Ioan has not outlined as many things she’s said about herself OUTSIDE of Alice’s POV, and nothing Elsie ever says.

I think this is a critical observation that really gets to the heart of Alice's parental alienation campaign.

 

[dich65]

Not sure I totally agree with this - I don't think Ioan can get, nor would want 100% custody. He is in a difficult place in that he is a B-/C+ list actor and right now has to take what work is given and invariably this means working away from home for large chunks. He also made a key mistake, in my opinion, in going to Australia and missing 2 key therapy sessions - I question whether that was essential. That, together with his extended holiday in the UK is likely to have given the girls the firm impression that they come second after Bianca. This, with the other missing session (work in NY) plus Alice's shenanigans mean the therapy has not happened meaningfully for the girls at a critical time. I think Ioan is in a truly awful position but I also think he has made mistakes.
The likelihood of him getting 100% custody is moot anyway. No-one can prove - to the burden of proof required for the courts/CPS - that Alice is abusive or neglectful to her children. Her PA is clear but again that has gone on so long now and is so entrenched that it may work against Ioan getting any custody at all (in particular for Ella as she may refuse to engage and the courts won't force her). If regular therapy isn't immediately instituted (and it's doubtful it will for months and months due to the slow pace of the court) it's unlikely anything will change. And if therapy doesn't work, the only thing to hope is that Alice will do a Betty Broderick and drop the kids off with him to try and break up him and B.
It is a horrible crappy situation, but sadly it's one that happens on an all-too regular basis in divorce cases. Unfortunately it is usually the father who is alienated. Alice, the evil bleep, will likely succeed with her PA in the short term, but long term, once they are adult, I am sure they will start to see the truth and will re-develop a relationship with Ioan.

I don't see why he can't get 100% custody with the obvious parental alienation going and if Alice is jailed for period of time in March, he will have to have them then. There are plenty of parents in similar situations to Ioan who have full custody of their children. They find ways to cope. What about the millions of couples, where one them dies suddenly?

I have friend who had a stroke out of the blue in October and it was bad as she wasn't found immediately, she was in a coma for a while and since then she has been a rehab facility. She was the driving force of the family, taking her kids to all the competitions around the USA. Her son is a rising NHL hope in his senior year at school. Her youngest daughter a possible Olympic equestrian, just a year younger than Ella. Immediately her family who live outside the US, came to their aid. Her friends rallied around and made sure that the children's lives continued as best they can in the circumstances. It worked so well, that nobody at the compay where her husband is a senior manager, knew about her illness until recently.

I realize that is not the same as this situation, but Ioan has proved he has a strong circle of friends who he can rely on by having them as chaperones when he has the girls. If he was granted full custody, I could imagine the Judge could agree to Ioan moving them to the UK where he has bigger support circle in his family and more chance of work. With the proviso that he pays for Alice's travel costs and accommodation. Kelly Rutherford is example, that it can work successfully. If Alice is jailed, her visitation would be limited anyway. Bianca has already indicated she enjoyed her time in the UK and got on well with his family. Alice doesn't have any of this. The girls would benefit from being removed from the immediate area where all this trauma has occurred. With therapy, kids can be very resilient.

 

[Endora]

What a bleeping liar. She deliberately made sure she was late too. 10 mins with a therapist is the same as a missed session.

What got me was when she claimed to spend 4 hours to get from WeHo to Encino. I used to live near her, and have friends in Encino. Depending on the time of day, you can cut through Laurel Canyon into the Valley in 30-40 minutes. An hour, max, in heavy traffic. If she took hours to get there she must have been driving Fred's car.

 

[welp]

Is the judge for custody the same judge that did the DVRO?

It's not.

The judge for the custody hearing is actually assigned for every single hearing/court action of this case that was scheduled (including all RO hearings that were postponed), except of the 2 August DVRO hearing

If I was Ella I would want to live with Ioan and Bianca. Realistically that would be the best option for her but she is so enmeshed and parentified by that bleep that she can't see it. Not surprising for a 13 yo who has been groomed from birth and who is now thoroughly PAed too.

The thing about kids is they don't always know what's best for themselves. That's why they have adults and guardians who are allowed to override their bad decisions. Kids aren't allowed smoke, drink etc for a reason. Realistically this tit show has being allowed to go on for WAY too long and now things are where they are. Not blaming IG - as I said before, in the UK, he could have gone to Children's Services to get support, but the CPS in the US is tit. That bleep is playing for time for a reason - it works to her advantage re the PA and ruining IG financially.

There is a place of balance between not blaming a groomed minor but also not condoning their harmful behaviour either. That's where I am.

it's complex tbh. If you are a teenager that likes to have no boundaries (well, most are, but some are more) and if you are shitscared that the other parent will kill herself you will not want to live with the more stable parent because you want to "protect" the unstable one. It's also....Ioan wont raise hell to Ella if she spends time with her mom, but Alice will raise hell to her if she spends time with Ioan, so just being with Alice the entire time is the better option mentally ironically enough. And this is before considering the brainwashing.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

I hope he gets 100% custody, gets a well-paid franchise role and rehires Gloria as a big duck you to Malice.

I wonder if Glo will be a witness for that bleep?