Gender Discussion #57

[Quokka]

The "TWAW" belief is exactly that...a belief. Just like believing in a god, or homeopathy or astrology, I don't pander to it because it's clearly nonsense. To be honest (and probably a bit unkind!) I tend to treat people who believe in religion or astrology like I would a small child, you know their critical thinking skills aren't quite there yet, so you make allowances for their ignorance.
But even very small children know the difference between men and women. My toddler son had a very embarrassing habit of pointing to random men and shouting "Daddy", but he never, ever did this to a woman. To me, it beggars belief that otherwise intelligent adults insist that transwomen are women, when they know, with every fibre of their being, that they absolutely are not! Who are they pandering to? Why are they lying to themselves and to everyone else? Do they not understand how utterly ridiculous they sound? The vast, vast majority of folk do not think that TWAW in any way, shape or form. The ambiguous language the TRA's use is an attempt to make us think that everyone is on board, when they really are not.

I honestly don't give a toss about being impolite to handmaidens, I'm a nice person in real life, but I don't need to justify myself to people who try to tell me that the sky is pink, that Santa is real and that men can be women

As a religious person... I get where you're coming from but ouch. Haha.

Otherwise, I completely agree. I was shopping with my small child and I clocked a TIM a mile away, my small child noticed when we got a little closer and asked me straight out "is that a man? Or a woman?" When I pointed out it was a man in a mini skirt and crop top we had the usual exchange of "people can wear whatever they like but that doesn't make them change sex"

Kids know. They know something is off. They get it.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Just a little quick positive from today. I had to complete an online medication review for my GP/prescription. It was ticky box and the page simply asked “what sex are you? M/F”. No “other” “NB” or “prefer not to say” Glad to see some sense still prevails!

 

[weeweegie]

Be kind = shut your female mouth.

 

[ThisIsMyGuiltyPleasure]

Yes, agreed. Plus more people will listen to him as he's a man.

From the article:-

"He says he realised two things: 'One, there was no actual way I can know what it feels like to be a woman because I'd never been one, so the idea of me saying 'Oh, I feel like a woman' was absurd.

'And the second thing I came to realise was that I didn't actually need to change my outside because of how I felt on the inside. I just needed to come to terms with it.'"

Those two points from the article are what really struck me and they are very important. No one can say they feel they are born into the wrong body because they have no idea what it feels like to be the opposite sex. I think they pay too much attention to stereotypes and don't take into account that absolutely everyone is different. Women don't always have to like pink, boys can play with dolls...it doesn't mean they are born in the wrong body.
The second point, I believe that there are mental health issues always at play and no matter what the surgery it's not going to fix what's going on upstairs. We are expected to accept trans people as "their authentic self" yet they cannot accept themselves as they are.

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I remember a cartoon drawn by an AGP showing what he would do if a woman confronted him for being in women's toilets.
It was extremely graphic, showing a woman beaten to a bloody pulp, AGP astride her body and a small, frightened girl looking on in terror. Does anyone else remember this? I may have some of the details wrong but this is what we are up against, this is why there's a hardline stance and my mind won't be changed because some man's feelies are hurt.
Fuck that, and I don't care if I come across as an arsehole. I'd rather be seen as a hard nosed bitch than see another woman or girl be put in danger, it's no skin off my arse if other people don't like it.

 

[petitspois]

No men in women's spaces - regardless of how they dress, identify or appear. They could be the nicest, most 'genuine' man in a dress in the world but stay in your own lane. Easy. No hand wringing, no discussing if a man who's had his balls cut off can come in, just keep them all out.

 

[Vanelope]

Ugh probably going to out myself, but I'm on the committee for a theatre group, and we had a show at the weekend in which we have a new member who is a transwoman. We also have a 14 year old female member. We have separate changing rooms for males and females and the transperson was told to use the changing room they feel most comfortable with. They chose the female room. The child member had a chaperone but was in the same room with the adults but in a corner behind a divider.

It just doesn't sit right with me, and no one appears to have raised any concerns. I only found out about the setup tonight so have not been able to influence this in any way (I'm a no performing member so don't attend the rehearsals)

Do I out myself as GC and raise a concern?

Safeguarding issue: the 14 year old child needs everyone responsible to act responsibly. single sex changing rooms should be provided under the law.

 

[JustHereForTheAgriculture]

Thought i’d add, i’m half an hour in and it’s all been about trans and gender fluid people. I feel like i’m on a brainwashing course rather than a diversity course. I’ve had chapter and verse about Jenna who’s trans and just wants to be accepted at work & to have the freedom to be herself & not be excluded which would be fair enough if ‘jenna’s’ freedom to be ‘herself’ didn’t impact on women…

Anything on supporting/accepting colleagues with disabilities? Or is that not the ‘diversity’ they’re going for?

 

[IndominusRex]

So, late last year I had treatment for cancer which sent me straight into surgical menopause. I've been really struggling with the symptoms and work has been tricky. I was reading something about menopause policies in workplaces so decided to look yesterday. I work for a local council and we have policies for everything so I assumed we would have one and I could use that to request flexible working etc. Nope.

I was searching related terms and put in 'HRT' and found the trans policy. If I was transitioning, I could request a whole host of different things to help me cope with the -let's be honest, self-inflicted - symptoms but as a woman who got ill, I can't.

That seems a clear breach of the equalities act on basis of sex discrimination.

 

[Miggsy]

Are you suggesting TRAs are to blame for this heinous crime and not...a sick and evil predator?

Of course they are not to blame for the crime. But this individual was a man who had said he was a woman and been using a female name:attempting to prevent outwardly as a female for many years.

TRAs are not to blame for the crime, but they ARE to blame for their pushing of self ID, no debate, TWAW, people are who they say they are just on their say so and if you don’t shut up and agree you’re nothing but a bigot and a TERF

They are not to blame for the crime, but they ARE to blame for the pushing of the ideology which has fostered a society where it was easier for the crime to be committed

 

[MaineCoonMama]

anyone want mansplained to over what a lesbian is...

Fuck that dude, what a pretentious wanker. Now lesbians can't even have the word, they're 'cisbians'?
I feel sick for my sapphic sisters.

 

[Dinate]

I really don't like the term gender critical, it's so negative. I prefer gender truth or maybe gender reality.

Yeah, it's frustrating that gender critical is described as the 'belief' that sex is a biological fact and is immutable. This isn't a belief - it is an actual fact.

 

[DoraMaar]

This may have been posted previously - but it's always good to see GG setting the world to rights

 

[melfish]

The Pope has stated that surrogacy should be banned.

We are learning more and more about the bond between women and babies, I think an industry that separates newborns from women for profit is very cruel and will have unknown mental anguish for those babies. We are only now learning about adoptee trauma and also about donor children. In 20 years it will be all these surrogate babies.

Infertility is unfair and incredibly upsetting but having children is not a human right.

As an adoptee, I thank you for saying this. Whenever I speak out about it, I am shouted down by people who refuse to see anything but the fairytale, my experience utterly denied. The trauma is real and lifelong

 

[esk]

Pregnancy and childbirth aren't without risk to a woman. Even a pregnancy and birth without complications sounds like a massive physical ordeal. For someone to expect a woman to go through that just because they want something that they can't have is incomprehensible to me. I appreciate that being unable to have a child might cause immense sadness, but not being able to have other things that one might desperately want can do the same. This all seems to be part of the general inability of people nowadays to accept that they cannot have, or be, whatever they want.

 

[DoraMaar]

Is anyone following the employment tribunal hearing with a former counsellor at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (the one headed by a transwoman)? She now works for Beira's Place, the single-sex service set up by JK Rowling. Tribunal Tweets is live-tweeting the whole thing. Today's hearing postponed because the claimant's barrister is unwell, but yesterday's thread is here:

Thread by @tribunaltweets on Thread Reader App

@tribunaltweets: Good morning. Today we are hoping to live-tweet the case of Adams v Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, which begins at Edinburgh Employment Tribunal today. The Claimant, was employed by Edinburgh Rape Cr...…

threadreaderapp.com

This is shocking.
View attachment 2694707

And this is the male CEO of ERCC - with one of his foremost supporters.

 

[Metropolis]

Quoting myself like a ladydick, but my alarm bells were originally set off big time by the transing history tendency - when people started discovering gay history and women's history, it was clear and important that we tried to understand people in the past on their own terms and respected the way that they thought about themselves in terms of what was possible for them. But the new 'trans' historians clearly see 'trans' as a category which has always meant the same thing - it's definitely something which feels religious/culty to me, and shows absolutely no respect to the actual lived experience of gender nonconforming individuals through the ages.

I absolute hate the way historical figures have been transed or non-binaried. What arrogance must it take for a museum or art gallery to label someone according to a fabricated ideology just because they didn’t conform to societal stereotypes of the time.

 

[Miggsy]

Call me cynical but shouldn't we be teaching our children that any and all strangers should be distrusted and avoided? (I am not saying this is relation to this particular crime before anyone twists my words.)

Points I agree on:

1. AGPs and male predators are evil and disgusting and women and children need to be protected.

2. Children should NOT be transitioning. They cannot make an informed decision on this topic and while parents should help bin gender stereotypes and let their child play and explore without judgement, they are *children* and not adults who can make informed decisions about medical interventions or treatments.

3. Biological sex is immutable, yes. Is it fair/realistic to allow trans women to compete against biological women in sports? No.

Things I disagree on:

1. The trans rights movement is a homophobic, misogynistic men's rights movement that preys on vulnerable children and adults.

I am open to continuing to read and learn on this topic. Those who have approached discussions with me in a respectful way have helped with this while those who wear 'I'm a terf and if you think I'm rude then good' like a crown and have sought to belittle me have not. You can be both a terf and a kind person - that is so clear to me now and it once wasn't, i'll admit. But you can also be a terf and an asshole.

I’ll not call you cynical, but I think your first sentence is terrible.

The judge expressly said in the Andrew Miller case (as an example) the child went with him because she thought he was a lady. She was just a little girl of 10 years old and yes probably had been told not to go with strangers and she probably wouldn’t have gone with someone who seemed to be a man. When I was a small child it was always drummed into kids if for example you get lost or need help somewhere find a lady to speak to as they are generally safer than men. This was a clear example of that thing we were told can never happen, happening - ie a predatory male presenting as trans to access a vulnerable female. Of course most trans people are not like this but self ID and the TWAW and you’re a bigot if you don’t agree mantras make it easier for predatory men to operate in this way.

So still no answer as to how we can tell the “genuine transwomen” from the predators and pervs?

We can’t - which is why we need female only spaces to protect women and girls privacy dignity and safety.

An analogy - we don’t assume everyone who wants to volunteer with Scouts is a pervert because there have been some people who have volunteered with Scouts who have been - but we still do due diligence because some of them might be a risk to children. We don’t say “no one who wanted to abuse children would go to this effort and children will get abused anyway so why bother”

 

[AbnormalFrog]

The thing is, even in the most well-meaning of times you're still taking a baby from the ONLY thing it knows and wants. Baby's know their mother's smell, heartbeat, voice etc...and Trauma occurs when a baby is separated from its mother, it doesn't matter if the person who now has the baby is the kindest woman - or man I suppose, in the world, or even the baby's bio aunt, that baby has suffered inescapable trauma. Most of the time it also generally takes advantage of disadvantaged and poorer women. Not many rich ladies are queuing up to be a rent-a-womb.

 

[Metropolis]

Any advice?

My 16yo is being made to feel highly uncomfortable by a trans identified male - I'm not sure if he's a boy or a man. This male keeps sitting next to her in their shared class and she keeps switching to a different table, and he follows. He's now following her when she goes to the loo, literally running after her when she leaves the classroom.

She's come a long way from being a typical brainwashed TRA to gender critical, but she's scared to say anything as her college is sold out 100% to trans. She's tried to talk to her college-based mental health support but he's gay, from the highly pro trans side of the rainbow. I really feel like I need to step in but I'm not sure how best to tackle it.

She's uncomfortable having a male behaving like this and being all giggly and "isn't it typical of us girls having to go to the loo together" etc but I'm thinking it might be best to treat it as though he's another girl harassing her and not bring gender politics into it.

At the very least she is being harassed and if he is also following her about, stalked. Your post made me angry - how dare he be allowed to get away with this behaviour. I would definitely bypass the mental health guy who clearly has no appreciation of it feels to be a young female on the receiving end of unwanted male behaviour.

I would take the matter up directly with the principal and explain that (as @Hollaaa says) regardless of this person’s decision to present himself as a female, your daughter is being harassed and made to feel uncomfortable by his actions.