Gender Discussion #57

[Colin]

Long term lurker on this thread but this picture was just posted in a (mostly women's) make up group I'm in. Of course men can wear whatever make up they like but the comments are all full of encouragement like to put eyeliner on "her" beautiful eyes, to try lipliner etc. To me it reeks of AGP.

 

[glubby]

That’s such a MAN’S take… women being in competition with one another over who is hot or not. Pitting women against each other over our attractiveness to men is a weapon of patriarchy designed to keep us divided. Fuck that silly little man. I genuinely don’t know any women who see others as rivals, competing for men’s attention. We’re far too busy living our lives and being awesome.

It’s funny you never see a trans woman just wearing jeans and a jumper and a comfortable pair of shoes, it’s always a tight leather mini dress or tiny anime schoolgirl skirt with thigh high socks. Always the bright red lipstick. I don’t know any actual women who dress like that. It’s like they’re dressing up in what they (a straight man) would find sexy. It actually makes me quite sad and embarrassed for them because the way they think women look and behave is so obviously coming from a male perspective and they’re all so clumsy and oblivious about it. It’s like the phrase ‘less is more’ doesn’t exist in their vocabulary.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I was on a clothing brand Insta lately and they posted a pic of various breasts to highlight censorship on non sexual content. One has a mastectomy and they’re all these trans people writing YAY TOP SURGERY. So insensitive as the subjects are seeing it and commenting

Fucking idiots. Up until recently a mastectomy was only done because of breast cancer. To save a woman's life not to be fashionable.

It's fucking traumatising to have to have parts of your body removed because they are going to kill you, it's beyond idiotic to remove them because it's seen as trendy now.

Boils my piss they way they think the world revolves around them, their view of the world is so small and self centred.

 

[Also_smoke_and_mirrors]

I don't get the applause for people like this. It's not like they were a person overcoming a physical disability or recovering from some accident.... How is this worthy of coverage?

How many young women and girls have been told they are too tall, too broad, too fat, not dainty enough to be a ballerina. Guess not everyone gets told that

 

[Metropolis]

This made me laugh.

 

[blahblahboring]

The right of the child to be safe, must outweigh the validation of this adult man. You are in a tricky position, but as the previous poster stated, maybe present your concerns over the safeguarding without mentioning gender ideology. The poor teenage girl probably feels that she can’t speak up to a room full of adults (who should be protecting her) without looking like a hateful bigot or bully. What madness, a teenage girl bearing the responsibility of not hurting the feelings of a mentally unwell, entitled man.

Ugh probably going to out myself, but I'm on the committee for a theatre group, and we had a show at the weekend in which we have a new member who is a transwoman. We also have a 14 year old female member. We have separate changing rooms for males and females and the transperson was told to use the changing room they feel most comfortable with. They chose the female room. The child member had a chaperone but was in the same room with the adults but in a corner behind a divider.

It just doesn't sit right with me, and no one appears to have raised any concerns. I only found out about the setup tonight so have not been able to influence this in any way (I'm a no performing member so don't attend the rehearsals)

Do I out myself as GC and raise a concern?

 

[Metropolis]

I think that statement is still wishy washy. She's not coming right out and saying that women's sports are for women only.
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Not Alan Cumming!

Alan Cumming says Rishi Sunak 'denyies the existence' of trans people

The actor, 58, spoke out against comments Sunak made at the Conservative Party Conference in October.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not surprised about Mr Cumming tbh. Just another man who fails to see the potential harm to females. Same old tropes - “denying the existence of trans people”. Raising concerns about women’s and children’s safety is not denying anyone’s existence. Fuck off, I’m tired of listening to the same old shit.

 

[weeweegie]

We’ve to applaud and never question these AGP men. It’s absolute wilful ignorance. Maybe 5 years ago most people didn’t know what AGP was but surely there’s been enough coverage in the media for the general public to see what’s going on. I feel like there’s needs to be a big scandalous Netflix documentary for it to really hit home that these sick pervert men are not the same as someone going through the mental anguish of gender dysphoria (for which I think they need intensive therapy for, not hormones and surgery). The OTT camp gay guy who is now a ‘woman’ apparently because it feels like society is even less tolerant of such gay men. They are not AGPs. But the majority of what makes up what we see as transwomen are AGPs. Because they are much more prevalent than a gay man with GD. And they are emboldened.

Said it before but the quickest way for a straight white man to go from the biggest oppressor in society to thee most oppressed ‘marginalised’ in society is to pop a bit of lippy on and walk out the door. Doesn’t matter how much of a creep he is, how horrible he is to women, how he thinks he can just walk in to the women’s toilets and changing rooms and we have to BOW AT HIS FEET is quite the win for these guys. They are LOVING this new cult of trans because now they can not only go public with their fetish, but they know they’ll be in control. And any objections from actual women? Bigot. We have been well and truly played.

 

[bcfc999]

She shouldn’t even be on the cover of a teen magazine. How many impressionable girls will see this. I’m raging

I’ve just read her father is a psychologist. He needs striking off !!

Liv Hewson breaks my heart honestly. The character she plays in Yellowjackets is such a strong lesbian and really shows that you can be sporty without being aggressive, soft without being weak, considerate without being a pushover. The format of the show means they have a teen and an adult storyline going on and given the adult version of her is played by Lauren Ambrose, I'm not sure what they're going to do to hide the fact the teen actor has had a mastectomy. She also had the nerve to complain that the Emmys are bigoted and she wasn't able to nominate herself because she doesn't fit into the male or female categories - girl, respectfully, fuck off - you're complaining that your portrayal of a LESBIAN can't be nominated for an award because you don't IDENTIFY as a WOMAN?
Does my head in that the "non binary actors" (Liv, Bella Ramsey and that one from the new GOT can't remember her name) insist on playing women (in two of these cases, lesbians) and then prance about claiming to be genderless. Fuck off. Go and get yourself some male roles if you're that genderless and leave the good roles to women who know who they are.

 

[rainbowlemon]

The reality of being a biological woman:

I'm a huge Halsey fan. The concert she mentions was for Vevo Lift.

I saw her last show in London with my brother, which was coincidentally was on International women's day- which she referenced. .


Sexy:

 

[Yer_wha?!]

I could cry for the young women seeing this
View attachment 2696084

So bare female chests are acceptable on magazines for teens, but only if it's a non- binary chest? Someone needs to stop this madness

 

[terfette]

Its so weird........ the lovely nice people that say that anyone can be a dancer...... and applaud someone who is far too tall and broad to fit into the usual ballet mould

and real life, where ballerinas have to be tiny, virtually starve themselves and spend hours every day training, pushing themselves beyond their limits, like the film Black swan, the real life dance world is full of ''mean girls'' being bitchy behind each others back or even to their faces......

I dont understand!

Lets see Sophie take a lead role in a ballet on the stage in the West End.....and see who they manage to find to lift them.. Maybe a cherry picker? .and how many seats they manage to sell...... I suppose it could be a comedy, like the ballet hippos from Fantasia?

The thing that's always glared out to me regarding sports, is that you never see them in sports that aren't divided by sex.

Equestrian sports are a good example, but if I bring that up people claim that's because trans people are more likely to earn less - the reality though is there isn't going to be much cost difference between equestrian and other sports at the top levels. Karl hester learned to ride on a fucking donkey because his parents couldn't afford any kind of actual riding lessons and in 2012 took Charlotte Dujardin to the Olympics and broke records for her gold medal performance. A lot of higher level competitors ride other people's horses and never own one.

I personally am not rich but I've spent the last twenty years around horses, I've had my own, I can handle ferral colts, at one point I was jumping decently, I've had dressage instruction from an instructor who was taught by Karl Hester aswell.

I learned to ride western which isn't common in the UK (for none horsey folk, western is how you'll see them in a cowboy film sort of thing), western is what I'm best at and it never cost me a penny to learn or get involved with. If I wanted to now I could probably earn money teaching others in fact.

Anyway, the point of this me-rail is that despite there being sports that are accessible and not separated by sex , where their trans status wouldn't get them attention, controversy, where it wouldnt matter if they were built like a brick shithouse, I've never seen a trans person involved in one. But then, it also wouldnt affirm them or enable them to access women's spaces, and they don't have an advantage over female competitors. It's easy to see where the motivation is.

 

[Em_gardener]

View attachment 2704540

Seen on a GC page on Fbook. So are the TW using the womens changing areas?

At least you'd know what you were signing up for if you went to that. Normal LGB people can just carry on swimming with straight people like they've been doing forever. These policies are more like segregation than inclusion. I find it bizarre.

 

[skronkywildcat]

Form I had to fill in today.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

My partner overheard me watching a TRA vs GC argument on TikTok including discussion of an AGP which sparked a conversation about TWAW.

Me: Do you consider this (TiM) to be a woman?
Him: Well, yeah, that's what they want to be right?
Me: Ok but does that still mean they are a woman?
Him: If they've transitioned physically, then they'd look like a woman, so yes I guess?
Me: Ok so if one of these TiMs approached you in a bar, with full physical transition, wigs, make up etc, would you go home with them?
Him: Well, no, because they're a man. I'd be able to tell.
Me: You just said they're a woman though so surely that wouldn't matter?
Him: Well no, cause boobs and a vagina don't just make you a woman.

I walked away smiling.

Aye, it's amazing how many men are TRAs on the streets but TERFs in the sheets
This is exactly how I got my beloved to come round to our way of thinking

 

[Jasminexx02]

After the post about the Amazon review, I felt inspired to go seek out more (god knows why) - look at this monstrosity

Spoiler

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Also, the guy in that review has a furry profile picture
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AND has also reviewed knickers and paw patrol items

 

[Tofino]

Call me cynical but shouldn't we be teaching our children that any and all strangers should be distrusted and avoided? (I am not saying this is relation to this particular crime before anyone twists my words.)

Points I agree on:

1. AGPs and male predators are evil and disgusting and women and children need to be protected.

2. Children should NOT be transitioning. They cannot make an informed decision on this topic and while parents should help bin gender stereotypes and let their child play and explore without judgement, they are *children* and not adults who can make informed decisions about medical interventions or treatments.

3. Biological sex is immutable, yes. Is it fair/realistic to allow trans women to compete against biological women in sports? No.

Things I disagree on:

1. The trans rights movement is a homophobic, misogynistic men's rights movement that preys on vulnerable children and adults.

I am open to continuing to read and learn on this topic. Those who have approached discussions with me in a respectful way have helped with this while those who wear 'I'm a terf and if you think I'm rude then good' like a crown and have sought to belittle me have not. You can be both a terf and a kind person - that is so clear to me now and it once wasn't, i'll admit. But you can also be a terf and an asshole.

When the trans rights movement don’t care about the consequences to women and children for your points 1, 2 and 3 then yes, it is a homophobic, misogynistic men’s rights movement.

Why do the trans rights movement want to remove safeguarding for women and girls? Why do they want biological males to be accepted in womens sports? Why do they want children and teens to have access to puberty blockers, chest binders etc?
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And even if there is some genuine, misguided belief that allowing transgender women into female spaces and sports and accepting them as a woman is just the kind thing to do, why is there a backlash towards any woman who points out the conflicts it has with the rights of women? Why are women being called terfs, bigots, getting sacked from work etc. for sharing their concerns? Look at all the death threats JKR has received from the trans rights movement community. Why are women the ones expected to feel uncomfortable in their own spaces to make a man feel better about themselves?

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Why is it that trans individuals are treated like absolute simpletons with no resilience whatsoever?? Society is expected to treat them like utter children. I don't get it!?? People with cancer, severely physically disabled, pregnant women, none of these people get close to the same over consideration that trans individuals do!!

What the fuck is this about!???

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Oh @Elle, you always pleasantly surprise me by sticking around when the conversation gets tough! I feel like you have an innate desire to be kind and do no harm so you are having difficulty to think/say trans women are not women because you are told it will be harmful to the wellbeing of a marginalised group. I can only speak for myself but I’m confident I’m not in the minority when I say I would never wish someone harm for being trans and in terms of being a valued person worthy of dignity and respect they are not even a bit less than anyone else. We are repeatedly told that if we say trans women are not women that means we hate them and feel they shouldn’t exist- we become part of the fictional trans-genocide but this simply isn’t true. I don’t wish them harm and I don’t want them to cease to exist. I just don’t want them in my protected spaces. I feel sorry for them if that’s hurtful but to me and many others it’s giving away protections and rights that women need and have fought for. Just giving them away to avoid being unkind. I also don’t want to see AGPs flaunt their fetish in public, that should be private like any other sexual behaviour and it’s not the same as a trans woman who tries to pass. You will often see extreme examples or hypotheses being given to support our arguments and you might think we are exaggerating or being hysterical (hysterical women eh!) but every single one of these things has or will happen if we continue down the path we are on. Up until fairly recently I would have been on the fence, paying lip service as I felt bad for these people “born in the wrong body” and doing my best to help minimise the indignity of it. But now I see that compelled speech is becoming a thing, if we don’t want to go along with it for whatever reason we are in danger (trouble with the law, rape/death threats from TRAs). That’s not ok with me. I’m sorry you felt piled on, I think you just raised some points people were keen to discuss. I have been repeatedly piled on elsewhere for saying anything remotely GC and this is another thing that makes me more steadfast. They are so militant and threatening, it’s no longer about wanting to be accepted and get on in the role of a woman, it’s about stamping out dissent and again, that’s not ok with me. They don’t get to tell me how to speak and what to believe when my perception tells me something different.
Sorry for long post, it’s just been on my mind.

 

[emmer_moans]

Had a team meeting this week, we were informed that in our upcoming performance review there’s an EDI element, e.g. we have to demonstrate what we have done as part of our role to be more inclusive, and what we intend to do going forward. Examples were: 1 - making more effort to accommodate accessiblity, i.e. when writing emails use concise language, legible fonts and colours (absolutely fine, I’ll choose something on those lines), but then the next example was using gender neutral language in emails, ‘they’ rather than he/she
So my performance review is apparently read by senior leadership teams (I never knew that, I thought it was just between my line manager, me, and HR). This means I have to put some waffle in my personal performance review about what i do to be more inclusive. How about fuck off. I do my job efficiently, productively, competently, am approachable, always the go-to “how do we do this?” person when new people have queries etc, yet now my performance review and possible reward etc is partially dependant on whether I write satisfactory waffle about Beingkind? Just let me come in to do the job I am paid to do. I’m not going to bend over backwards to write ‘they’ instead of he/she. Just no.