Gender Discussion #57

[Falkor]

Is anyone following the employment tribunal hearing with a former counsellor at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (the one headed by a transwoman)? She now works for Beira's Place, the single-sex service set up by JK Rowling. Tribunal Tweets is live-tweeting the whole thing. Today's hearing postponed because the claimant's barrister is unwell, but yesterday's thread is here:

Thread by @tribunaltweets on Thread Reader App

@tribunaltweets: Good morning. Today we are hoping to live-tweet the case of Adams v Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, which begins at Edinburgh Employment Tribunal today. The Claimant, was employed by Edinburgh Rape Cr...…

threadreaderapp.com

This is shocking.

 

[BunnyLebowsky]

I'm cackling at this address your next one to "hi fellow human beings" and see if that's acceptable!

The first thing I thought was 'Greetings Earthlings' like Marvin the Martian

 

[hazelnot]

I really don't understand it either. Large employers now have LGBTQ+ panels and I wonder what LGBT people actually need at work beyond the protections they have under the Equality Act.

I say this fully aware I'm potentially just being a very ignorant straight person - but I've never understood why who you prefer to shag is a thing that needs to come into work at all?

 

[Tofino]

I agree this niece doesn’t exist and it all forms part of a depraved pweirdo fantasy… but what is it with older kids and nappies? Mumsnet is teeming with all manner of perverted men, and so many of them pretend to be mothers asking for advice about night nappies, or talking about their child being forced into a nappy against their will by step parents/nursery staff (I now know that being forced to wear a nappy is a big part of the fetish)

I’ve even come across these sick men on Marketplaces. They start off with what seems an innocent enquiry.

The first one was when I was selling a musical potty where it doubled up as a toilet seat. The initial enquiry was they wanted a picture of it fitted to the toilet. So I sent stock photos/photos from reviews because I did not want to share photos from my own bathroom. The profile appeared to be of a young mum (the profile has disappeared now but there was a photo) so I thought the splash guard question was innocent although I’m annoyed I didn’t pick up on it a bit sooner but the ‘how can you tell they are peeing’ was what prickled my senses. I looked at how I could report it but there weren’t any options for this kind of thing, Facebook just wants you to block them.

Then the other one I was selling some snuggle pjs on vinted and I was asked if the trousers fit ok over a nappy because they were for an older child which initially I thought was a fair question as my son is still not toilet trained due to his disability so something I can empathise with.

But then the person asked for a photo of my child wearing the pjs with a nappy on so they could see the fit!! I basically told them to fuck off and reported them. And the profile disappeared so hopefully vinted took it seriously and banned them.

They are everywhere!!

 

[bcfc999]

From what you have said, it sounds like some of you used to be very similar to me (highly trans sympathetic, shall we call it?!). I'm curious as to whether it applies to everyone here that you were once only slightly GC or not at all and then became increasingly GC. Or whether some of you were GC from the very start?

It's interesting because Contrapoints described being GC as being in a whirlpool and once you're in deep you can't get out of it whereas some of you have said it's a case of having your eyes opened and not being able to unsee it.

I was very TWAW until Ellen Page came out. I remember seeing almost overwhelmingly positive reactions everywhere affirming Ellen as Elliot, but I saw a couple of people pointing out the absurdity of being told that you can "feel" what body you were "supposed to have" - how can you "know" you were "born in the wrong body"? Before that I'd been very live and let live, especially because as an LGB teenager on tumblr everything was very #bekind and there was always the narrative of "accept others as they tell you they are". That really started me thinking about things properly though and realising that actually under proper examination, none of it had ever really made sense to me - I'd just enjoyed feeling like I was doing a good thing by being positive and tolerant. I also remember growing up in an era of labels being bs, gender roles being widely considered absolute crap, and watching the slide back into "girl behaviour" and "boy behaviour" and kids being transitioned based on that is what angers me most. Not going to claim the 90s were idyllic and 100% positive for girls but jfc we were certainly allowed to play with cars and diggers without our parents or teachers thinking we were secretly boys.

 

[holly1727373!3]

Look at the state of this bloke included in my diversity training

Thought i’d add, i’m half an hour in and it’s all been about trans and gender fluid people. I feel like i’m on a brainwashing course rather than a diversity course. I’ve had chapter and verse about Jenna who’s trans and just wants to be accepted at work & to have the freedom to be herself & not be excluded which would be fair enough if ‘jenna’s’ freedom to be ‘herself’ didn’t impact on women…

 

[weeweegie]

Been reading a lot of posts on perimenopause and came across one woman who describes herself as non binary and is going through peri and absolutely cannot say the word woman or female for the life of her. ‘For those of us AFAB’ and ‘Us womb Havers’ - yep womb havers. She’s so nearly there. Wo-man. Let’s try again…wo-man. When called out in the comments she said yes I could say it but I don’t want to BECAUSE ITS NOT JUST WOMEN WHO GO THROUGH PERI.

Internalised misogyny is absolutely hard wired into these women. It’s got to be a mental illness. It’s just so depressing I honestly despair.

 

[Sea]

Can I self ID as a tortoise, and hibernate until people have working brains again.

 

[Django]

I could cry for the young women seeing this

 

[OatMatchaLatte]

IMVHO it is kinder to speak the truth, express an honest opinion and fight for the rights of women and girls than pander to a perverted minority who wank themselves silly over wearing fake tits, lipstick and pretending to have periods. We are well past the place of letting everyone 'be who they want to be' and are now fighting for our very own exclusive existence amd language.

AGREED.

And how is it "kind" to slander and abuse lesbians who refuse to date men with penises? How is it "kind" to allow women who have trained at a sport their whole lives to be beaten by a mediocre man in a frock? How is it "kind" to tell someone grappling with same sex attraction that they're not actually gay, they're the opposite sex? How is it "kind" to force women to share changing facilities and toilets with dirty men? How is it "kind" to allow men convicted of sexual offences to serve their sentences in female prisons to prey on more women?

 

[Yer_wha?!]

I’m so angry at this I probably won’t make much sense here. This, to me, highlights everything that’s wrong with the media and non-binary. A teen girl bare chested on the cover of a fashion magazine. I find it disgusting because of her age and the target audience. If it was boobs we could see there would rightly be hell on. But it’s ok to show her medically sanctioned self-harm scars? It’s a fashion magazine showcasing/influencing trends and fads- that’s all this is, a fad. How dare they feature it like it’s the latest Hermes bag or hairstyle. It makes me think of when heroin chic was in and lots of young people (mainly girls) felt they were too fat to fit in and developed unhealthy attitudes to food, some even progressed to eating disorders. Girls will be influenced by this who may otherwise have been happy with who they are. Is your developing body causing you shame or embarrassment? Don’t worry, just chop your tits off and you can even go topless without being harassed, in fact you will be superior to other girls and celebrated for being your true authentic self!
Edited to add, she may not be a teenager but she is mostly known for playing one and that’s how she appears to most.

I'd seen something on social media a couple of years ago where a woman who had a double mastectomy due to breast cancer, had her chest area tattooed and there was uproar about the pictures, but that young girl is celebrated for needlessly mutilating herself. The double standards are horrendous

 

[Falkor]

Please tell me this is just hyperbole

Sadly not.

From just one listing...

 

[DoraMaar]

 

[Metropolis]

[

Nope but plenty of apologising for deadnaming/using the wrong pronouns.

My question is, why would i even be using serephina’s pronouns in an email to her anyway? I’d just be using ‘you’ wouldn’t i?

“You notice your mistake.” Except it’s not a ‘mistake’ , you’re being gaslit. My blood pressure has gone up just looking at that - there’s not even an ‘other, please specify’ box you can write your own answer in.

 

[bcfc999]

I so badly wish I’d found these threads a couple of years ago. When I was new in my role I got told off in front of everyone in a meeting for referring to a colleague (who was not in the meeting) as “she”. This person was very obviously a women, didn’t look androgynous in the slightest, always wore very feminine outfits and makeup, had a female name, but somehow I as a brand new member of the team was expected to know and remember that she was a “they/them”. It really knocked my confidence as I considered myself a trans ally at the time and I felt so embarrassed and horrified at my mistake. I actually stopped speaking in meetings for a long time after that because I was so scared I’d slip up again. But I was also angry that this person put no effort into actually presenting as non binary but it was still treated like I’d committed a crime for taking the very obvious visual/verbal cues I’d been presented with at face value. At that point I could have seen the light and realised what a stupid sham this all is, but instead I told myself I was being sexist for assuming that a woman or a man had to look a certain way and tried very hard to unlearn my prejudices What a fool I was.

How horrible of them to tell you off in front of everyone like a child! Isn't that the exact thing that TRAs say never happens

 

[scrummybrendan]

This is horrifying, but it shows the truth behind what trans women think they're receiving when they buy a "vagina".

 

[BlairWaldorf86]

Yeah, why would LGB people feel weird swimming with straight people? Surely this is just about the TQ+ (the pervs who want an even freer pass than usual to use the women’s changing rooms, and the mentally ill who have convinced themselves they’re too special to be able to swim with the masses).

 

[skronkywildcat]

Mention safeguarding a lot. Ask what their safeguarding policy says about this type of harrasment.

 

[maytoseptember]

Fucking Metro Not only is it a TRA rag, it’s now using double entendres straight out of hardcore porn for Twitter LOLs.

 

[bcfc999]

I've been told off in work for sending an email that said
Hi girls

So the next email I sent said
Hi guys - I got into trouble for this one as well!!!

We're an all female team!!!

We've to do diversity training!!! I've told my pal, I hope it's led by Ashley Banjo and the wee guy with the glasses!!!

I'm cackling at this address your next one to "hi fellow human beings" and see if that's acceptable!