Gender Discussion #23

[weeweegie]

God…when you see TERF is trending on Twitter (again) and take a look the absolute pile of dog tit that you read. There’ll all ‘terfs be like (insert some made up load of rit)’. Why do trans activists think they know what goes on in ‘terfs’ minds? It’s utterly bizarre. They are so wrong on all levels. And no matter the vile, hate filled crap they spew, I would never lower myself to retaliate. I don’t wish anyone dead. They must just be sitting raging all the time, angry at all the middle age women who won’t be bullied and won’t shut up and won’t lie when presented with reality.

They hate Sharon over there while she brings up her 3 kids, carrying all the emotional and mental load that women carry who doesn’t believe biological sex can be changed (because it can’t). They hate Linda who is retired and has brought up her kids and is now being harassed online because she doesn’t agree with transwomen being allowed to use female changing rooms. They hate Jennifer who is struggling to get pregnant and has had her sex erased in all things relating to her as a woman and is now just a person with a uterus. How dare she be annoyed at that the hateful bigot?

Yep such a hateful bunch these women. They definitely deserve to be bombarded with hate and in fact I think the police should be sent round and they should be arrested for thinking the wrong things.

it’s so messed up

 

[klarakluckbag]

I think the TRA's thought they had us over a barrel. All this screaming "Terf" at anyone who dared to question their narrative, their habit of "cancelling" people like JKR, their incessant Twitter rants, the way that Stonewall had large employers running scared, they really thought they had won the war. But by coming out into the mainstream, muscling in on our sporting competitions, they've scored a real own goal, so to speak.

The cyclist has peaked a lot of people who really had no idea how insidious this ideology has become. Sportswomen are starting to speak out on our behalf, the Press are picking up on it (no matter how awful the DM is, it does have a large readership) and MP's are finally starting to realise that this is an issue which matters to many voters.
I think we may be at a turning point, but we need to keep up the pressure. Write to your MP, make comments to support those on Twitter who are supporting our aims. Tell your friends, your partners, and especially your children. They won't give up, men don't like being browbeaten by women, they never have. I won't be happy until every womens' space is given back to us, and us alone. How dare they think they can take from us what is ours.

 

[maytoseptember]

I think the TRA's thought they had us over a barrel. All this screaming "Terf" at anyone who dared to question their narrative, their habit of "cancelling" people like JKR, their incessant Twitter rants, the way that Stonewall had large employers running scared, they really thought they had won the war. But by coming out into the mainstream, muscling in on our sporting competitions, they've scored a real own goal, so to speak.

It does feel like times are changing, doesn’t it? I remember when the word “TERF” used to frighten women. Women used to panic when outed for liking GC tweets, or saying GC things (I remember JKR doing this, and Alison Moyet, and Martina Navratilova… I’m sure there were more). They apologised and promised to go away and educate themselves… except when they came back, they doubled down.

Sports does seem to be a turning point. Once they start trying to overturn basic common sense there’s no putting the genie back into the bottle

 

[Couldlifeeverbesaneagain]

I really hope that the tide is turning and reading here is empowering and reassuring... Until you go over to twitter and start to question the fundamentals of science, even though you know it is correct.

If I went around saying that Trump was still president, people would think I was thick. If I said that the Battle of Hastings was in 1500, I'd be called out. If I went around stating that the capital of England was Manchester, again, people would think I was thick and question my education - and rightly so.

So what I don't understand is how the basics of science are allowed to even be questioned? If I said that my blood was green, you would think I was crazy and tell me to shut up.

So why can't we just shut this down by calling them all stupid? Because they literally are.

 

[Chocolate2008]

It does feel like times are changing, doesn’t it? I remember when the word “TERF” used to frighten women. Women used to panic when outed for liking GC tweets, or saying GC things (I remember JKR doing this, and Alison Moyet, and Martina Navratilova… I’m sure there were more). They apologised and promised to go away and educate themselves… except when they came back, they doubled down.

Sports does seem to be a turning point. Once they start trying to overturn basic common sense there’s no putting the genie back into the bottle

I hate to be pessimistic but I don’t think times are changing. I think things have gone too far to be reversed. Too many people genuinely believe that questioning trans men in sports is the new racism.
Look at the Saccone Jolys kid. In my opinion that young child has no clue what is going on & while Daddy dearest is selling his son’s “trans journey” no one has stepped into stop him. Because being trans is unquestionably brave apparently.

It’s great Paula Radcliffe has spoken out but it doesn’t seem like enough.

 

[Clover123]

It does feel like times are changing, doesn’t it? I remember when the word “TERF” used to frighten women. Women used to panic when outed for liking GC tweets, or saying GC things (I remember JKR doing this, and Alison Moyet, and Martina Navratilova… I’m sure there were more). They apologised and promised to go away and educate themselves… except when they came back, they doubled down.

I think this is a great point, and shows that the more you look into this, the more you realise being peaked was just the tip of the ice berg, and so much disturbing stuff is hidden below. Most have no idea about the damage of puberty blockers, adult TIMs at women's refuges and the Jessica yaniv types. The more you look, the more you become convinced that this ideology isn't just wrong, it's dangerous. That's why terf name calling isn't enough to put people off speaking out anymore, because they've seen the ramifications and they're too worried about it to back down!

 

[Eveningdusk]

hey, so I’ve been reading on this thread and posted a couple of times, while trying to work out what my own opinion is on all this. It’s refreshing to see actual opinions without fear. a place where there can be free speech.

I think my general issue is that the body is viewed as a template which can be ‘modified’ to fit what the brain thinks their identity is. All emphasis seems to be on changing the body or preventing the body from changing before puberty hits. In most cases it’s a perfectly healthy body that is being surgically and chemically altered. I have sympathy for the genuine people who believe that they are in the wrong body. Most of them just want to fit in and fly under the radar. But unfortunately there are still differences in the body that remain after surgery and HRT and pretending this is not the case helps no one especially in areas that are affected. I.e bone size, organ size, strength etc

for example I have no problems with competitions which involve the brain I.e chess or a quiz etc. Be who you are. Nothing is affected and it’s fair to all competitors. But when it comes down to bodies competing, I have an issue with this. when it comes to bodies in separated spaces it has issues also as it’s a person body which will go into those and be on show not their ‘brain’ if that makes sense. i don’t know what a fair solution is to this.

I think my point is not enough is placed on the brain and how it thinks about gender/identity and the body especially gender norms and sterotypes. The way things are going it’s becoming even easier to just sweep it under carpet and change the body instead, which I don’t think is right.

 

[GladiatorReady]

Well this thread is disturbing

 

[petitspois]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...N-STOCK-Sorry-dont-woman-just-saying-one.html

I think the tide is turning, slowly. I really hope I'm right.

 

[Tired of this crap]

I hate to be pessimistic but I don’t think times are changing. I think things have gone too far to be reversed. Too many people genuinely believe that questioning trans men in sports is the new racism.
Look at the Saccone Jolys kid. In my opinion that young child has no clue what is going on & while Daddy dearest is selling his son’s “trans journey” no one has stepped into stop him. Because being trans is unquestionably brave apparently.

It’s great Paula Radcliffe has spoken out but it doesn’t seem like enough.

I agree with what you said in that ‘questioning trans women in sport is the new racism’ - I honestly think this is how it’s come this far. Normal, nice, kind hearted people somehow think that questioning this stuff or being critical of it is the same as being racist or homophonic. So in order to show how much of a ‘good person’ you are, then you need to be pro trans. This is massively pushed by organisations too.
Not sure any of that makes sense

 

[Scotch Mist]

I hate to be pessimistic but I don’t think times are changing. I think things have gone too far to be reversed. Too many people genuinely believe that questioning trans men in sports is the new racism.
Look at the Saccone Jolys kid. In my opinion that young child has no clue what is going on & while Daddy dearest is selling his son’s “trans journey” no one has stepped into stop him. Because being trans is unquestionably brave apparently.

It’s great Paula Radcliffe has spoken out but it doesn’t seem like enough.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.

Twitter appears to be the main tool used by the TRAs to push their ideology. All dissenters are quickly branded bigots, cancelled and banned.

Who is behind this? It's like a ghastly social experiment run by a shadowy force aiming to control us.

 

[TooFarScone]

I agree that it's gone too far to be reversed, but I think it can be stopped before it goes further. I think changing sex on paper and the medical pathway for adults are here to stay but medical treatment for children will definitely get banned eventually. It might be too late for single sex facilities.

 

[FrannyGallops]

I agree that it's gone too far to be reversed, but I think it can be stopped before it goes further. I think changing sex on paper and the medical pathway for adults are here to stay but medical treatment for children will definitely get banned eventually. It might be too late for single sex facilities.

I think single sex facilities are the hill some people will die on. There’s no way a woman who’s been abused should have to share a grape crisis centre or DV shelter with a man and be told to ‘reframe their trauma’. I also think there’s going to be a slew of lawsuits in the future from adults who were given puberty blockers and cross sex hormones as kids.

And men being allowed to enter women’s sports is going to peak more people than ever before. Lia Thompson, Laurel Hubbard and the cycling dude are working wonders for showing ordinary people on the street what TWAW actually means. People who probably thought ‘live and let live’ and ‘this doesn’t involve me’ are starting to see how ridiculous it is that a six foot broad shouldered bloke with a bulge in his trunks can call himself a woman and stand on the winners podium next to two slight women.

I actually think people in the future are going to look back on this and wonder how TF it ever went this far.

 

[skronkywildcat]

Well this thread is disturbing

I bleeping hope they got screenshots (and can afford a lawyer). I mean the person who was chucked out of the hospital and slagged off on twitter.

 

[appleskin]

I'm sure Ireland is not the only place doing this tit and it's making me wonder of the men that have offered rooms with bad intentions when there's were so few checks being carried out due to the numbers.

 

[skronkywildcat]

hey, so I’ve been reading on this thread and posted a couple of times, while trying to work out what my own opinion is on all this. It’s refreshing to see actual opinions without fear. a place where there can be free speech.

I think my general issue is that the body is viewed as a template which can be ‘modified’ to fit what the brain thinks their identity is. All emphasis seems to be on changing the body or preventing the body from changing before puberty hits. In most cases it’s a perfectly healthy body that is being surgically and chemically altered. I have sympathy for the genuine people who believe that they are in the wrong body. Most of them just want to fit in and fly under the radar. But unfortunately there are still differences in the body that remain after surgery and HRT and pretending this is not the case helps no one especially in areas that are affected. I.e bone size, organ size, strength etc

for example I have no problems with competitions which involve the brain I.e chess or a quiz etc. Be who you are. Nothing is affected and it’s fair to all competitors. But when it comes down to bodies competing, I have an issue with this. when it comes to bodies in separated spaces it has issues also as it’s a person body which will go into those and be on show not their ‘brain’ if that makes sense. i don’t know what a fair solution is to this.

I think my point is not enough is placed on the brain and how it thinks about gender/identity and the body especially gender norms and sterotypes. The way things are going it’s becoming even easier to just sweep it under carpet and change the body instead, which I don’t think is right.

I'm not comfortable with it, but if people are adults and are not mentally ill (though how can you be trans identified and not mentally ill?) and have been thoroughly talked through all the negatives and are able to pay for the hormones and surgery themselves then it's their body and their choice. I obviously still don't think TiMs should be allowed in women-only spaces or sports though.

I believe trans identified girls should get therapy - not affirming therapy - but they need to talk through and explore the roots of their gender dysphoria and see that going into early menopause and taking hormones that will duck with their cardiovascular system is probably not the solution.

I believe any man who says he is a trans les is an AGP and should get to duck.

I don't think 'trans healthcare' should be available on the NHS, I don't think it should be available to teenagers or younger.

 

[IndominusRex]

I'm sure Ireland is not the only place doing this tit and it's making me wonder of the men that have offered rooms with bad intentions when there's were so few checks being carried out due to the numbers.

Another tragedy that could have been avoided if the people in charge had listened to the many women voicing safeguarding fears when it comes to these schemes.

 

[Glortard]

I think it's significant that this is getting into football. The Lia Thomas story got so much international attention mostly because the press got good pictures - no-one in this country cares about a swimming competition in Kentucky besides the fact that a trans person won it, and cycling is also pretty niche outside of the Olympics and Tour de France. When transwomen start dominating women's sports that a significant number of people watch anyway regardless of any controversy, I think that's when the backlash will really gain momentum. In this country that'll probably be international football (maybe PL at a push), Wimbledon, or an Olympic cycling/swimming/track and field event.

It baffles me a bit that TRAs push for trans women to be included in women's sports because it seems like such a terrible PR move. Most of the existing problems caused by allowing them into women's spaces happen to vulnerable and marginalised women outside of the public eye, so they're easily dismissed by anyone who doesn't want to think too hard about it. Elite athletes have huge platforms and a literal audience watching them get beaten unfairly in real time. If this becomes mainstream enough, even people who'd rather not get involved are going to be forced to have an opinion.

It will not be football as that is a team game however you could have an outcry if the likes of China beat an American team in an event with MTF participants. With tennis I have often thought that some guy would try that but they have to live as a woman for 4 years before competing according to the rules (the testosterone also has to below 10) so we could yet see a guy break through given the prize money on offer. Golf could also be another one as the average driving distance for men v woman is 295 - 256.

 

[SILKWORM]

I kind of hoped that the more athletes speak out the harder it will be to brand them radicalised fascists. I kind of hope the more athletes speaking out helps people see through their tactics of branding anyone who is critical of TRAs as radicalised bigots who are trying to murder all trans people.

But I doubt it, I guess. If anything it'll be, "if ____ can be radicalised by anti-trans bigots then anyone can!"

I hate it.

 

[VC10]

I kind of hoped that the more athletes speak out the harder it will be to brand them radicalised fascists. I kind of hope the more athletes speaking out helps people see through their tactics of branding anyone who is critical of TRAs as radicalised bigots who are trying to murder all trans people.

But I doubt it, I guess. If anything it'll be, "if ____ can be radicalised by anti-trans bigots then anyone can!"

I hate it.

Many will be cautious of upsetting their money sponsors, etc so I wouldn't bank on it either