Elle Florence #5 Granny Aesthetics, balancing unemployment and the art of scamming

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Thanks for pointing this out. When you mentioned she took the easy way and that many lawyers wouldn't respect the oath she took; it reminded me of the discussions that took place about Kim Kardashian when she announced she would be pursuing a law degree. I remember seeing quite a few people who were going through the normal route of university and then studying for the bar and they found it ridiculous on how she was obtaining her law degree. Not to get off the topic of Smelle but any thoughts on this?
I think it's a couple of things. People criticize Kim because:

1. She's a Kardashian. In fact, she's "the" Kardashian" that propelled their family to stardom with her sex tape. For better or worse, people have trouble reconciling sex tape turned reality star with an intelligent, practicing lawyer.

2. Kim doesn't have an undergraduate degree, presumably isn't taking the LSATs or going to law school and somehow she can get the same job as someone who did at least 7 years of schooling in the U.S. People will find that unfair.

3. Her apprenticeship is done around her schedule and most normal people would never have that sort of flexibility. Money is also no issue for her - she's doing it out of interest/for publicity/whatever other personal motivation she might have. I think that can genuinely upset the people who are doing this to earn a living to support their families, struggling to pay back student loans, etc.

Ultimately, I think if Kim somehow manages to swing it and actually uses it for good, then good for her. You can argue it's unfair, she's privileged, or shouldn't qualify but rules are rules and if it works out and she's making a positive impact, I wouldn't want to be someone who criticizes her for it.

Eleanor Florence Lecocq, however, is a completely different case. She went for a law degree that needs to be legitimized here (and even then, is usually easier to get into/not as respected here in North America) and even after taking the BC bar and a LLM, meaning she can actually practice as a lawyer, she chose to take on a job (fraud investigator at a government agency) that doesn't require the degree at all (none of her colleagues with her job title/role have a law degree). This would be completely fine if she was honest about it but she built an entire channel and business upon her lie of pretending to be a young, female lawyer when she isn't (she often talked about her long days as a "working lawyer" and how "that's just how it is for us lawyers"). She then proceeds to tell everyone she's an in-house counsel (going as far as to including it in her linkedin title after leaving that job) when she clearly ISN'T (there's a screenshot on one of these threads where she worked on a case with someone who was actually in-house counsel and they were actually called that on the records while she was referred to as investigator so clearly their jobs are different). She then spent most of her time on buying the nth cashmere sweater and taking advantage of men who made decent money and waiting for a proposal. She never used her law degree and lied about her job, all of which to look good and scam people on the internet by selling an image of professional woman in law (which she isn't), and that's why people can't stand her. If she actually took that foreign law degree and did the proper training, and actually practiced as a lawyer at a legit place and worked hard, I don't think people would be nearly as critical.
 
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I actually have no qualms about Kim apprenticing into a law degree whatsoever. She is famous as duck; how could she go to school and not be a disruption? I'm actually proud of her that she is doing this. If you see what she's up to lately she's been fighting hard for wrongfully convicted people to get justice. I'm not mad at her using her platform for this.

Also, life is not fair. Some of us are celebrities or rich or more attractive or whatever. We all play the hand we're dealt and Kim is using it to become a lawyer. I'm not mad at it.
 
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Elle should just open up and say that being a practicing lawyer was not for her. She wants to use her degree, but in other ways and go down that route. It would make her happier on her channel and probably overall without having to keep up the facade.

Re medical school: There are plenty of people in the US who have gone to international med schools and are practicing here and in reputable programs. There are plenty of international programs that have a relationship with US hospitals. A person's work ethic makes a huge difference though
 
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I think Elle should have just stuck to her MDFA job. It seemed like they liked her well enough to grant her another interview even after she quit. Her own poor decision making led her to where she is now.

With her MDFA job, she was making OK salary and had weekends free. She was enjoying the high life courtesy of Ginette's money - ok even if her BFs provided her with the extra cash through paying for her rent, Ginette paid for Elle's handbags (some of them including many of her new ones) and vacations to Hawaii and trips to places like Selchelt shores and Seattle to shop (and eat in fancy restaurants) in Ginette's dime. Elle has no idea how fortunate she was until she gave it all up.

Also, a lot of lawyers don't make that much more money than the MDFA job, maybe just $20,000/pa more. The MDFA job paid about $55,000 pa but a lot of law jobs in big business or government only pays about $70-80,000. Elle hardly needs the extra cash. I don't understand her.
 
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I think Elle should have just stuck to her MDFA job. It seemed like they liked her well enough to grant her another interview even after she quit. Her own poor decision making led her to where she is now.

With her MDFA job, she was making OK salary and had weekends free. She was enjoying the high life courtesy of Ginette's money - ok even if her BFs provided her with the extra cash through paying for her rent, Ginette paid for Elle's handbags (some of them including many of her new ones) and vacations to Hawaii and trips to places like Selchelt shores and Seattle to shop (and eat in fancy restaurants) in Ginette's dime. Elle has no idea how fortunate she was until she gave it all up.

Also, a lot of lawyers don't make that much more money than the MDFA job, maybe just $20,000/pa more. The MDFA job paid about $55,000 pa but a lot of law jobs in big business or government only pays about $70-80,000. Elle hardly needs the extra cash. I don't understand her.
Actually law jobs in government in Canada pay a lot - between the base pay, benefits plan and the pension plan, it's a very comfortable lifestyle in the 9 to 5 culture. Any work past 5 pm is frowned upon heavily. Career progression is slower, but each year, there is a nice pay increase that just helps all the plans I mentioned. In the corporate space in Canada, it is also fairly lucrative for Counsel and lawyers are "treated as special".

Elle make a big mistake not chasing one of those types of jobs. Even with her career experience she would at least have a nice pension egg put aside from a government group. dum dum girl :)
 
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Actually law jobs in government in Canada pay a lot - between the base pay, benefits plan and the pension plan, it's a very comfortable lifestyle in the 9 to 5 culture. Any work past 5 pm is frowned upon heavily. Career progression is slower, but each year, there is a nice pay increase that just helps all the plans I mentioned. In the corporate space in Canada, it is also fairly lucrative for Counsel and lawyers are "treated as special".

Elle make a big mistake not chasing one of those types of jobs. Even with her career experience she would at least have a nice pension egg put aside from a government group. dum dum girl :)
She gave up free Medicare (I know she was taxed for it but still!) and a decently paying job for what?! That says a lot of her than anything else.
 
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I know a bunch of attorneys both in the private and public sector. The only ones who, like Elle, constantly have to point out that they're a *~lAwYEr~* are the people who are insecure and often times viewed as incompetent by those in the profession. They're pretty easy to spot and love to flaunt their titles to whoever will listen including to their barista, random people on the internet, etc.

I have HUGE issues with misrepresentation in law. I was putting in hours for practicum for my degree back when I was a student and interned at a law office. The attorney I worked under always flaunted to others in conversation that they were a lawyer. This "lawyer" required me to bill clients for my work and misrepresented my credentials so that the billables could be at a higher rate. I explained why I was uncomfortable with this because it was not legal to refer to myself with that title without licensure. The entire ordeal was a mess and my practicum grade suffered because I tried to call out what was clearly illegal practice. The firm tried to fail me for my practicum classes but thankfully the grades for my other assignments helped me balance out to a barely passable grade. I lost out on scholarships due to my lowered GPA and almost failed the course which would require to pay and stay in school longer. Despite reporting the issue to my school and the head of the national association for the profession in my jurisdiction, nothing happened. One board member of that law office, a former judge, actually printed out the Merriam Webster dictionary definition of "common sense," told me to read it aloud, and said that I don't have it. Both the board member and attorney said that "this is YOUR issue" in regards to misrepresentation, said that it wasn't illegal, and were pushing me to drop out of school because I needed "real world experience" and said that the profession wasn't cut out for me.

In the ACTUAL real world, the board member was not renewed for a second term as a judge in their district. The attorney has been at the same job for a number of years with zero opportunity to advance higher at the firm at their current position. The salary for the attorney is still at what is considered to be a starting salary for attorneys in the public sector fresh out of law school. Attorneys who are civil servants are known to be paid the least in my area, but are still more respected than some in the private sector as they have experience in trials. For the amount of years that the attorney has worked in the profession, their peers with the same number of years are making much more. I didn't find out any of this information until after I left that practicum while questioning my career choice. I ended up doing my next practicum term in another law office thereafter. This office saw my potential and actually created a new job position while I was still in school so that they could offer it to me before I graduated. Now I'm in a great position with opportunity for growth. I just got a very generous raise less than 1 year in!

Never let appearances and titles fool you. People use them to pretend to be important. One doesn't have to be an lawyer to understand the law, but ALL people should be ethical.
 
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I’m curious as to why Ginette chooses to spend so much time in Hawaii when the only family she has, really, is her daughter. Why not be in the same city? They supposedly want to be in the same country, hence part of the reason Elle is in Seattle, or so she says. But Washington and Hawaii are about as far away from each other as New York and London. Like Elle, Ginette is also giving up free health care. I get that she may like the weather and the beach, but does Hawaii really have that much to offer otherwise? The cost of living is high and it’s quite isolated from the rest of the world. Personally, I’d either live in Canada or otherwise just take advantage of EU citizenship and retire somewhere in Europe. But of course, that’s just me saying what I’d do without knowing the full picture and why she’s made the choices she has.
 
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I’m curious as to why Ginette chooses to spend so much time in Hawaii when the only family she has, really, is her daughter. Why not be in the same city? They supposedly want to be in the same country, hence part of the reason Elle is in Seattle, or so she says. But Washington and Hawaii are about as far away from each other as New York and London. Like Elle, Ginette is also giving up free health care. I get that she may like the weather and the beach, but does Hawaii really have that much to offer otherwise? The cost of living is high and it’s quite isolated from the rest of the world. Personally, I’d either live in Canada or otherwise just take advantage of EU citizenship and retire somewhere in Europe. But of course, that’s just me saying what I’d do without knowing the full picture and why she’s made the choices she has.
My grandmother left her home country to follow my grandfather as he was elsewhere for work. Her home country had all 4 seasons and she moved to somewhere much more tropical. It's warm all year there and she never returned to her native land. She said that it's too cold! Maybe Ginette is someone who prefers warm weather and is sensitive to the cold if staying for long amounts of time. Out of places in the US with a warmer clime, I'd choose Hawaii over Florida!
 
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Actually law jobs in government in Canada pay a lot - between the base pay, benefits plan and the pension plan, it's a very comfortable lifestyle in the 9 to 5 culture. Any work past 5 pm is frowned upon heavily. Career progression is slower, but each year, there is a nice pay increase that just helps all the plans I mentioned. In the corporate space in Canada, it is also fairly lucrative for Counsel and lawyers are "treated as special".

Elle make a big mistake not chasing one of those types of jobs. Even with her career experience she would at least have a nice pension egg put aside from a government group. dum dum girl :)
Id argue on your point about pay. Someone collected data on lawyer salaries in Ontario and it was pretty depressing. It’s somewhere on a law job group on Facebook
 
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I’m curious as to why Ginette chooses to spend so much time in Hawaii when the only family she has, really, is her daughter. Why not be in the same city? They supposedly want to be in the same country, hence part of the reason Elle is in Seattle, or so she says. But Washington and Hawaii are about as far away from each other as New York and London. Like Elle, Ginette is also giving up free health care. I get that she may like the weather and the beach, but does Hawaii really have that much to offer otherwise? The cost of living is high and it’s quite isolated from the rest of the world. Personally, I’d either live in Canada or otherwise just take advantage of EU citizenship and retire somewhere in Europe. But of course, that’s just me saying what I’d do without knowing the full picture and why she’s made the choices she has.
Right? I'd want to move to the south of France if I had EU citizenship to retire. Or take like you said take advantage of free healthcare in Canada. Niagara on the lake is beautiful I'm sure there are nice places she could retire. But I wonder if it is a property cost issue. Her condo in HI is pretty affordable it seemed based on what others found. I have zero idea how expensive things are in most of Europe.
 
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If I were Ginette I’d hightail the US. I’d give anything not to live here right now. Granted I’m sure I’ll deal with racism abroad but whatever, I’ll tolerate it over living in the US with poor health insurance and lack of social nets.
 
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Id argue on your point about pay. Someone collected data on lawyer salaries in Ontario and it was pretty depressing. It’s somewhere on a law job group on Facebook
Just go and look up sunshine list 2019 Ontario (all salaries over $100k) and you can find out the average and median salaries for lawyers. This is excluding private and publicly traded companies. Sunshine list is anyone working for a "government type agency" including the ontario securities commission (OSC).
 
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Just go and look up sunshine list 2019 Ontario (all salaries over $100k) and you can find out the average and median salaries for lawyers. This is excluding private and publicly traded companies. Sunshine list is anyone working for a "government type agency" including the ontario securities commission (OSC).
What’s missing is that these jobs are hard to come by and not the norm.
 
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If I were Ginette I’d hightail the US. I’d give anything not to live here right now. Granted I’m sure I’ll deal with racism abroad but whatever, I’ll tolerate it over living in the US with poor health insurance and lack of social nets.
You could look into immigrating to Canada. They have a merit/points based system for immigration, so unlike the US, you wouldn't need employer sponsorship to immigrate there. Basically there are a bunch of factors (like education, work experience, age, etc) and you accrue points for each factor, then they look at your total points. I actually wondered about this myself at one point, but never looked into it further, so not sure how that lengthy/complex that process is.
 
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You could look into immigrating to Canada. They have a merit/points based system for immigration, so unlike the US, you wouldn't need employer sponsorship to immigrate there. Basically there are a bunch of factors (like education, work experience, age, etc) and you accrue points for each factor, then they look at your total points. I actually wondered about this myself at one point, but never looked into it further, so not sure how that lengthy/complex that process is.
What’s funny is that I discussed this with my fiancé in the beginning of the pandemic. Unfortunately he works in a specific industry which limits where we could live. We technically could move to Denmark if things get super desperate but I don’t know if I want to move there just based on what my Polish friend said after living there for quite some time (no offense to anyone who is Danish, btw!!! Just going by what she said).
 
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Oh I see. That's definitely a dilemma, staying in the US (which I also think is falling apart literally) or moving somewhere that is unfamiliar in general.
 
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What’s funny is that I discussed this with my fiancé in the beginning of the pandemic. Unfortunately he works in a specific industry which limits where we could live. We technically could move to Denmark if things get super desperate but I don’t know if I want to move there just based on what my Polish friend said after living there for quite some time (no offense to anyone who is Danish, btw!!! Just going by what she said).
I am part Danish (well, one parent is, I was born and raised in Canada) and I agree. Scandinavian countries are amazing to visit and live in but not the best places to immigrate to for many reasons. Canada is a much more friendly option.
 
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Curious what the issue with immigrating to Scandinavia is. Not that I am thinking of doing it (have also never been), but am jealous of people from those countries just because on paper they look so good!
 
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