Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #10

[Thegirlwhouk]

I wonder if the notes are being allowed as it makes them look less reliable? Eg we've asked you not, you ignored us and so don't blame us if it makes you look bad.

I mean it is school like and childish. They've been asked not to do it and have ignored the request. It really doesn't reflect well on either of them. It highlights the toxicity of the relationship and their own feelings of self importance. Well, to me anyway

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I’ve just caught up on the last couple of days’ posts and reporting. Can see I didn’t miss much in the way of defence from MG. Absolutely infuriating that this has become the Constance trial, and he’s just quietly bumbling along without any focus on him whatsoever.

They are equally responsible for that baby’s death. It could be argued that he would be able to think more rationally without the hormones and should have stepped up to get help. But no, he just lets her make the worst possible case for herself (which is actually a good thing, in terms of her being found guilty) while there is absolutely zero said about his part in it.

He’s played a game and I hope he loses.
They are both guilty.

 

[neroli]

To be honest I'd never heard of co sleeping before because I had my children 30+ years ago and they were both very ill. I don't think the concept of safe co sleeping is the major issue here. I'm sure people of my generation would read the evidence and just think appalling neglect and complete disregard of professional advice...quite apart from the damning history of having 4 children previously removed from their clutches.

I just think that the whole co sleeping debate is a red herring. Victoria was a part of their "luggage". She might as well have been in a cat carrier..

 

[Emsie]

These threads always getting aggy when court isn't on.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

If that’s the case that’s insane. Who would actively want to drag out things even more at this point

It could be literally anything though. One of the jurors or counsel could be getting married and going on honeymoon, they could be having an operation they’ve been waiting years for, their kid could be having an operation etc. I don’t think they can risk losing another juror either - the trial would be dangerously close to collapsing entirely if they did, they won’t want to be within one juror of that in case one of them has to withdraw.

 

[spillallthetea]

Jesus if that’s the opening to his closing remarks lol he’s gonna lay in to her, wonder how she will manage to keep her trap closed , her counsel will have that claw clip attached to her mouth

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Jury have been sent home for the day
The jury in the Old Bailey trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon, who are accused over the death of their baby, has been sent home.
Judge Mark Lucraft KC told them to return to resume deliberations next Thursday, 30 May.

FFS!

*throws claw clip and storms off in anger*

 

[sebanna]

They were happy to put Victoria's needs on the back burner so they could concentrate on their own need to keep her. You can't neglect a newborn baby's needs like that and expect them to survive.

 

[MurielSnark]

"Lies fell from her mouth like confetti in the wind."

Mr Little KC is nailing it.

 

[neroli]

They've got history of having children taken away from them. SS have gone all out to educate CM and warn her of the dangers of her "practices" and interpretation of baby "care". She has had every chance as is always the way with people like her.

She is no fool and has a degree in Arabic from Leeds Uni. She is capable of comprehension when it suits her. It just doesn't suit her to comply with "Western civilisation" when it comes to keeping her baby alive and healthy. She has to do it her way and MG must follow suit if he wants a look in.

They concealed the birth and the death quite callously..treating Victoria as a part of their detritus. No remorse,
no nothing.

I want them to be punished with prison sentences. What message does it send to others on the run flouting all expert advice and exposing their babies to all sorts of risks?

 

[Eyesopened]

They should have housed them in a festival tent instead of a warm prison for all this time

 

[Emsie]

Then why wasn't this enforced? Who is in charge of this trial?

The claw clip is in charge.

 

[sebanna]

I think they said, according to the length of her feet,she was born at term and probably two weeks when she died. So her foot length was of an average two week old baby.

They had no where safe for Victoria to sleep. There wasn't a a moses basket, Baby sleeping bag or a hat found. There was no proper bed and she was likely to slip under the covers of the sleeping bag. If her head was outside the sleeping bag she would have become cold, if she was inside the coat she was likely to suffocate. They just weren't set up to care for her safely and they didn't have the stuff to meet her needs.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

The prosecution’s statement so far is brilliant, he’s gone all in. I found myself saying “yes, that’s exactly what we were saying on tattle!”

 

[WurstHunde]

The best thing about tattle is that everyone can say their bit, and no one shouts each other down. Disagreeing doesn't have to be disrespectful.

I think for the vast majority of people, the guilt and turmoil of knowing they had caused their child's death would be a punishment in itself. However, I haven't seen much evidence suggesting they feel any remorse.

I don’t think she believes she has anything to be remorseful for.

I’m also unconvinced she’s mentally ill. She has a massive sense of entitlement due to her family history and in my opinion she genuinely believes that the social niceties of the “lower classes” don’t apply to her. She’s also incredibly manipulative and will no doubt have a fairly easy ride in prison as she will just wrap everyone round her finger.

 

[iieee]

What worries me is how often was her nappy changed when she was alive? How long had the nappy she was wearing been on? At least once she's dead she can't suffer anymore, but a living baby with ammonia attacking her skin and urine wetting her thin baby gro is horrendous.

I think it's quite likely that is how she lived.
From this post by @Bleekemolen who was at court. This hasn't been reported in the press:
"The state of the nappy she was found in was horrific - as if Victoria had been wearing it for a long, long time"

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #9

*Trial adjourned until Easter Sunday, witness not available* *Trial adjourned until Easter Sunday, witness not available* Witness is worried he'll get crucified....

tattle.life

 

[ImDavidBrent]

Well done Tom Little KC
Thank goodness this case is coming to its end. Hopefully there’ll be justice for baby Victoria very soon

 

[sebanna]

It has been an interesting case and Constance Marten is a fascinating character. Born into wealth and privilege, she did well at school and travelled widely. Then she married a penniless convicted rapist, went to live in tents surrounded by pots of p*ss and had all her children removed. Something must have gone wrong somewhere.

She hasnt been painted sympathetically in this case by any barrister, however the evidence is there to show her as a victim of domestic violence and cocevice control, His previous jail sentence for a violent rape, medical reports after she "fell out of a window", her family was concerned enough to hire private detectives and apply for a ward of court, the family courts felt her children needed adopting to protect them against domestic violence. Yet he seems happy to sit back and kept her come across as an upper class arrogant prat. She appears to wear the trousers but it's hard to know the true nature of their relationship.

I do think she deserves to go to prison for a long time for what she did to Victoria and there are no excuses for letting the baby suffer. There was however something very wrong. Surely even prison would be nicer than sitting day after day in a freezing shed with no food and a smelly bag for life.

 

[neroli]

Those parents really did appear "deranged with grief and anxiety" when they were arrested, didn't they? Chicken mayo Mark and the lovely Arabella...newly bereaved, vulnerable and terrified.

 

[whitershadeofpale]

Apparently the jury is out https://www.upday.com/uk/jury-out-i...ec2lNtCHhhi-ssL-U50oJKjOeedl24k2mrTzJ1Ry8_4JV