Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #10

[lucylucyapplejuicy]

I’d feel more sorry for them losing 5 children, if one of the times they lost custody of a child it wasn’t because they abandoned them as a newborn in the hospital expecting the staff to babysit, then refused to do a COVID test when they eventually returned (from a hearing that they didn’t even need to attend in person because the hospital had already offered to set up a remote link in a quiet room), instead choosing to walk away from their newborn baby.

That’s only one of the reasons one of their children was removed, and I can’t get past it. Why make such a huge song and dance over ‘needing to keep this one’, when all they had to do to keep custody in the past was do a COVID test, and they refused to do it.

So, of the 2/5 cases we know about, we have 1) abandoning a newborn baby to make a point and 2) taking a newborn baby camping in January with no equipment or clothes to make a point. I shudder to think what happened to the other 3

 

[sebanna]

Victoria was born into a society that protects babies, offers them medical care and safeguards them against parents, who may really love and want their babies, but are unable to care for them. CM and MG went to great lengths so Victoria couldn't have this and she paid the price, and while other babies get a childhood ,she was left on her own decomposing in a shopping bag.

 

[lola_90]

17th of June, what the actual claw clip

 

[Secretbrillopad]

Mr Fitzgibbon is laying it on thick now

Where's the fucking logic, Fitz?! If she was so distraught by her first four children being taken away, why didn't she bend over backwards to give the fifth a safe and contented life?!

 

[MedeaWho]

Different case

Stockport nursery worker guilty of baby's manslaughter

Kate Roughley strapped nine-month-old baby Genevieve Meehan to a beanbag and left her for 90 minutes.

www.bbc.co.uk

At least baby Genevieve has got justice.

I think nursery management should also be prosecuted for manslaughter. Those ratios were a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Emsie]

I'm cracking up at the defence blabbering on about the meaning of the name constance what's that got do with anything?
We name our children before we know what their personality is.
Jeffrey means "pledge of peace" Jeffrey dahmer was not a pledge of peace. Jesus is this the best they've got.

 

[iieee]

I know the defence have a job to do, but describing this woman as a lioness protecting her cubs is far from the truth!

Actually, Lionesses sleep outside with their cubs all the time. Such a western human standpoint. SMH.

 

[missymunch]

Hope this is ok and don’t want to derail the thread but I have just seen this . Currently on trial . Different but what struck me is the face down issue and CM’s defence.

Baby died after being strapped to bean bag by deputy nursery manager and ignored, court hears

Kate Roughley is accused of the manslaughter by ill-treatment of nine-month-old Genevieve Meehan, known to her family as Gigi, who she found unresponsive and blue.

news.sky.com

 

[MmmB777]

This probably explains the screaming baby. She was in agony.

I’ve no doubt she was. Cold, hungry and in pain. IMO every single choice they made were ones to conceal Victoria and therefore were only to benefit themselves. Never what would have been best for her and often ensuring she was especially vulnerable.
Carrying her around zipped up so she’d be unable to breathe properly- the concealment was more important than the risk of her dying every single time. That is why it would not shock me at all if the baby herself had become too inconvenient to them and too hard to conceal that they did deliberately kill her or watch her slowly die without seeking help.
She was literally disposed of like rubbish in a bag of shit. No child of theirs was ever more important than each other. No child was ever worth inconveniencing them or putting effort into. They didn’t want to risk him going to prison, that was more important than their daughter’s safety, comfort, dignity and ultimately her life.

 

[DianaBanana]

The podcast also includes the directions given to the jury by the judge, so much is missed from the live reporting!

 

[Lubylab]

The thing which sticks in my mind (and I recall one of the juror's as it was noted she sobbed) is the dirty teddy bear babygrow which was passed around in the evidence bag.

My own daughter had this very same babygrow last winter (it was a pack of 3 from primark - very thin just usual cotton) . I guess that's why I can't forget it. Just makes me so sad for that poor baby girl in the cold with no home comforts, warm water for bathing etc.

Let's hope the Judge's summing up reminds the jury of some important evidence from the start. Hoping they reach a verdict very soon.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I can’t begin to imagine the older children learning about their life story over the years, ending up with the knowledge that they are possibly only safe and well because they were removed from their birth parents, and that their baby sibling died because of the absolutely hideous actions of their birth parents.

The adoptive parents watching this trial from a distance must be heartbroken for Victoria, and for their children who have now not only lost their birth family but a baby sibling who could not be kept safe.

 

[gimmethattea]

I know there are things we may not understand in play causing the delays, but it's so frustrating.

How is a jury meant to remember and retain all the information and who said what and how they said it when it's all so stop/start and won't it give them excuse to say it hasn't been a fair trial because of this. And what about those poor jurors, who no doubt have had plans cancelled, jobs to work around, childcare to sort.

Maybe it's my age and me as a person, but I find myself becoming more and more in shock at the way we run things in this country.

 

[MrsDimSum]

It’s probably quite a small detail in the grand scheme of things but something that gets to me the most is how they left her in her own shit once she’d passed. I know people have sympathised with them wanting to “keep her” as a reason for why they carried her around for so long (in a bag for life with rubbish strewn on top of her, aside). If they were that precious why didn’t they change her and wrap her up give her a bit of dignity. And you think well perhaps they didn’t have anything to hand to clean her with but they managed to buy a bag of food supplies. A cheap pack of wipes is what? £1 max. They no more loved her in death than when she was alive it’s so tragic.

Definitely this. The negates any lies they are telling about how loved and cared for she was. They demonstrably could not provide basic love and care for this child. There has to be something deeply wrong before a father and mother could leave their tiny baby dead in a carrier with a shitty nappy on.

Neither of them are of low IQ and this is not their first child, they knew what they were doing was wrong and totally undignified for that poor little girl and neither of them had the urge to clean her up. They had time and money for some alcohol though?

I honestly can’t fathom how the jury are taking so long on this. This part of the story in itself shows what you’re dealing with

 

[gimmethattea]

I'm hoping that the jury is back today and we can get a verdict soon.

In my opinion, based off what I've read from this trial so far, they'd definitely be guilty for concealing a birth, perverting the course of justice by concealing the body of a child (to me, once they were caught, the wouldn't tell anyone where the body was and I seriously doubt that would of changed if the police wouldn't have found it first).

I would also say guilty for the other charges too. They have previously had 4 children removed from their care, they had received warnings about living in tent with a baby, they had received guidance for safe sleep practices, they had support from social services...

They willfully camped with her in the winter. She didn't appear to have any clothes other than the baby grow. They were wrapped up very warm the whole time, which makes me so sad, because the advice I was always told is babies need one more layer than you. She wasn't handled gently or with care from the CCTV footage we've seen. No one will ever know her exact date of birth or date of death, what she weighed... The things that everyone shares with excitement when they have a baby.

We only have their word that she was well fed and cared for, it I honestly don't think she was. How can we guarantee she breastfed everytime she should have? There is no evidence and except their word and I don't.believe them for a second.

This whole case makes me so sad, because there should be another little girl running around and enjoying life right now and they are the only two people to blame for that being true.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I think Prof Fleming should spend a week in a festival tent on the South Downs next January, just to test his theory that it would not be cruel and negligent to have a baby in these conditions and that there would be zero chance of cold stress/hypothermia. I hope he was paid enough.
CM and MG may or may not need compassion/therapy etc, that’s not the question.
The question is: did they cause the death of this baby?

 

[sebanna]

What!!! They had ten days off, came in for a few days, had a week off, came in for day, had a three day weekend. Then one day in and now a 15 day break. There no time for them to get on with it. There constantly interrupted.

 

[Aberscot]

She was neglected and was exposed to dangerous conditions. A freezing cold baby girl with just – we say – a single baby grow and one vest. No hat. A hat is never seen, a hat has never been found.

this alone makes me so sad anyone in right mind would know a newborn outside needs a hat never mind in January sleeping rough. Everthing heard today is exactly all we have said last few months.
why are They allowed to be writing notes to each other, no respect all all for the courts or there poor dead baby

 

[Tofino]

The Judges direction and summing up will be as neutral as possible but I really feel he was trying to hint to the jury they'd be stupid not to produce a guilty verdict

When the judge did the summing up for the Letby case, her supporters all started screaming that he was biased. However if the neutral summing up of the evidence by a judge make’s a defendant sound guilty then they probably are and I think the prosecution have done the job of proving beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[KatieMorag]

A) This jury seems like a shower of fucking idiots yet again.

B) I can't believe this shit is still ongoing. I had forgotten about it!

C) I wasn't offered any counselling after being a juror and it haunts me to this day. There's a normal/everyday activity that I absolutely cannot do after hearing what happened to the victim in our case.