Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #10

[sebanna]

It’s probably quite a small detail in the grand scheme of things but something that gets to me the most is how they left her in her own shit once she’d passed. I know people have sympathised with them wanting to “keep her” as a reason for why they carried her around for so long (in a bag for life with rubbish strewn on top of her, aside). If they were that precious why didn’t they change her and wrap her up give her a bit of dignity. And you think well perhaps they didn’t have anything to hand to clean her with but they managed to buy a bag of food supplies. A cheap pack of wipes is what? £1 max. They no more loved her in death than when she was alive it’s so tragic.

What worries me is how often was her nappy changed when she was alive? How long had the nappy she was wearing been on? At least once she's dead she can't suffer anymore, but a living baby with ammonia attacking her skin and urine wetting her thin baby gro is horrendous.

 

[pommobear]

This trial has basically lasted for what feels like the entire duration of my pregnancy.

 

[MavisBeacon]

I think there will be a load of stuff comes out afterwards that could not be reported on, and some of it will explain all the delays. Fingers crossed for a guilty verdict.

 

[iieee]

Victoria deserved to live and have a life. She would have done so if they hadn't gone on the run with her. They chose their own wants over her needs. That's the bottom line for me.

 

[lucylucyapplejuicy]

I feel sorry for the juror if it’s a holiday. I can’t imagine they’d be able to fully relax and enjoy themselves, knowing what they have to come back to

 

[Aberscot]

i hope the jury replay that video of her handling the baby in the takeaway in their minds, and then they will remember the way she handled that poor baby., that was when she was alive and they were apparently both loving parents.
Fast forward few weeks and hope they remember the way they cared for her poor deceased body…..in a bag filled with dirt and rubbish.
Poor Victoria deserved so much better let’s hope she gets some sort of justice, and as for the rest of her kids thank god we have social workers else the other 4 might not have survived either.
i am hoping for quick guilty verdict tommorow.

 

[KatieMorag]

I love the closing speeches. The last big 'fuck you' to the lying bastards where they can spit the absolute truth in the most vicious way possible to lodge the facts into the jury's minds.

I hate that they are writing notes to one another. I hope they get a very severe sentence and that her ovaries shrivel to nothing and that his dick falls off and that they are prevented from communicating (their worst nightmare).

 

[JCMSadie]

I really do wish the prosecution had hammered home the difference between co-sleeping and what they were actually doing. In one light, people without co-sleeping experience may just think it was an unfortunate accident. But those who can see the difference can see it in another light - ridiculously unsafe, and as part of the overall picture of neglect. I hope the lullaby trust info fills in the difference.

And the "cremation" terminology also muddies the water. No one says a murderer trying to hide a body "cremated" it, they say they burned it to get rid of the evidence. Whilst I don't think they intentionally murdered Victoria, they were trying to hide the evidence. And seeing that is crucial to understanding that they were trying to hide how she died, a big red flag that it wasn't quite as they claim.

 

[odetotheseaweed]

Turns out I will not be starting a new career as a psychic

 

[F1Grid]

Turning to the defendants, the prosecutor said: “This was a self-absorbed relationship between two selfish and arrogant individuals and caught in the middle of that toxic relationship was a baby that was manifestly not being cared for properly, manifestly not being looked after properly.”

Nailed it.

 

[iieee]

I just want a second with the jury to say:
1. That's no cosleeping
2. That wouldn't have been a cremation
3. This was not protection

I was sympathetic to their case a bit until she got on the stand and started rambling about forced adoption. Your babies are in care because of you, you absolute moron.

Added to this, I never want to hear the phrase "off grid" to describe sleeping rough ever again.

 

[ImDavidBrent]

4 children taken away and 1 dead, excellent parents!

 

[sebanna]

Different case

Stockport nursery worker guilty of baby's manslaughter

Kate Roughley strapped nine-month-old baby Genevieve Meehan to a beanbag and left her for 90 minutes.

www.bbc.co.uk

At least baby Genevieve has got justice.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

CM is mentally unstable. I genuinely believe there is undiagnosed or unmanaged mental illness at play.

MG is either hugely paranoid, or has taken advantage of CM’s state to manipulate to his benefit - eg the ‘detonation’ of cars.

They are both guilty of GNM in my eyes. Without question. But I do not think anything will ever change CM’s mind that she was ‘protecting’ her baby or ‘doing the best thing’ for her because she is not able to see it herself.

I hope the sentence doesn’t allow for her to ever be pregnant again, but I think it’s unlikely. This will happen again

 

[spillallthetea]

I bet Constance is SEETHING at the comments.

Seething is right

 

[CausticYoda]

You can take notes and you get hand outs with timelines, cctv images etc on. Mind you, it was only when we started deliberating that it became clear at least one jury member hadn't taken any notes at all over the 2-3 weeks, and another had such a poor grasp of English that he hadn't understood a lot of the evidence. We also had a little old racist OAP from Romford who was thick as mince, whinged non-stop, and needed a fag every half an hour, which meant we all had to traipse out and stand out the back with her.

It was painful. Took 3 or 4 days to agree on our verdict because of one juror who kept getting cold feet. I was so excited to have been called, but I'm so, so pleased I've been excused from doing it again.

 

[Axatogrind]

As this is wrapping up, I just want to say thanks to contributors on here for such insightful posts. I don't follow a lot of true crime and I've learnt a fair bit from following these threads. Also the lighter hearted moments have been helpful to break up the sheer awfulness of the case. I'll never be able to look at claw clips in the same way again!

For those who've followed high profile cases before, does a lot of additional information normally get reported after the end of a trial?

 

[lucylucyapplejuicy]

I’m always surprised at your expertise in all areas Hotes, from makeup/skincare to budget cooks to Liverpool to clubs in Manchester to London to law and now to medicine - you’re wasted on that sofa.

This is completely unnecessary. You’ve taken the time to go through someone’s posts, then mocked them for being disabled. You do realise that anyone could become disabled at any moment, don’t you? That it’s not a choice, and yes, disabled people are clever and witty, you not recognising that is rather telling

 

[HotesTilaire]

I’m always surprised at your expertise in all areas Hotes, from makeup/skincare to budget cooks to Liverpool to clubs in Manchester to London to law and now to medicine - you’re wasted on that sofa.

Yes, being disabled, housebound and mainly bedbound and often unable to speak, II have to make the best of it, although of course I have observed cases more recently as a member of the public via CVP - from the sofa.
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What’s happened it’s all gone a ..

Apparently @Dogmuck has some sort of personal issue and wants to attack me, mock the fact I’m disabled and refuse to just…use the ignore button

 

[grumpy-nosy-cow]

You can only claim up to about £65 a day for the first two weeks plus food/drink of about £5. Then it goes up to £130 a day plus the £5 for food. I did jury service 11 years ago and I'm sure it hasn't gone up much since then. My employer paid me as usual less the court allowances so I didn't lose out but I work for a local authority.

Ive just googled this as i did jury service in 1992 as a youthful 18 year old - we got £4.50 a day for food!
Jurors in 2024 get the princely sum.of... £5.71 a day for food if under 10 hours spent at court!
So in 32 years its increased by £1.21! That's actually shocking