Childfree by Choice #2

[Traveler001]

This reminds me of a message that my cousin sent on the family group chat. I wish I could attach it here but she used to be on Tattle too and may still use it.

She basically sent an emergency message begging for the family to help her managing her kids. Since she divorced she struggled between working and dealing with the kids. Her partner is helping a lot but since he got remarried he has more kids too.

However, most of the family members either have kids themselves (so they are busy too) or they don't want to be babysitting. She claimed that we were all selfish for not babysitting her kids for her. Yet, she has no problem dumping her kids to her mother to go clubbing, dining out or going on holidays with her childfree partners.

She 100% regret having kids but there are no plan B for that. You can't dump your kids at the local church or orphanage anymore.

You should be able to give up your kids at any age with no long drawn out process for the kids sake!

I don't really know how anyone can claim people are selfish for not helping with their kids. You had the kids. They are your kids. Do people genuinely have kids with expectation that many people will help?
Maybe this is just me but if I have kids, it will be on the expectation that I/partner will be doing everything and the childcare will come from nurseries/school etc or a paid childminder who is a professional UNLESS family offer to help out through no detriment to them. By that I mean, grandparents who love their grandkids and want to have them, not feel like they have to help out but actually really stress about it.


ETA: Not "you" specifically or personally OP. I mean you figuratively, like "one had kids"

I would never rely on anyone help if I wanted kids. How can, say the paternal grandparents, commit to 14? Years of babysitting or childcare? What if they're completely loving and doting but they get sick, die, my husbands siblings have 4 kids each and need help too, they have to work because of financial issues, they have to move, they break an arm etc. You can't rely on that kind of intensive long term help and people need to factor that in when they plan their children.

Also I've read similar things a lot but I'll use the last one I read as an example, on a popular parenting site () someone said their or their husbands parents, I forget, begged them to move nearer to them when the woman was pregnant and they'd help with childcare. The couple moved near to the parents, woman had baby, baby is now older, maybe 5 or 7, and the parents don't provide childcare. I think they maybe underestimated how hard/energetic looking after kids is and the older you get the harder it's going to be.

It's not something you can rely on at all and it's not selfish for people to say no to babysitting or childcare.

 

[dancingqueen5678]

You should be able to give up your kids at any age with no long drawn out process for the kids sake!



I would never rely on anyone help if I wanted kids. How can, say the paternal grandparents, commit to 14? Years of babysitting or childcare? What if they're completely loving and doting but they get sick, die, my husbands siblings have 4 kids each and need help too, they have to work because of financial issues, they have to move, they break an arm etc. You can't rely on that kind of intensive long term help and people need to factor that in when they plan their children.

Also I've read similar things a lot but I'll use the last one I read as an example, on a popular parenting site () someone said their or their husbands parents, I forget, begged them to move nearer to them when the woman was pregnant and they'd help with childcare. The couple moved near to the parents, woman had baby, baby is now older, maybe 5 or 7, and the parents don't provide childcare. I think they maybe underestimated how hard/energetic looking after kids is and the older you get the harder it's going to be.

It's not something you can rely on at all and it's not selfish for people to say no to babysitting or childcare.

Exactly! it’s easy to say yes to babysitting when there’s 1 child but what happens when another comes along? Now you’re expected to watch 2. What happens when the other family start having kids? Are you supposed to have all the kids? I feel for grandparents sometimes cause it must be so hard saying no. Especially as you get older. Babysitting in your 60s is a lot easier than doing it in your 70s/80s.
I don’t understand people who have multiple children without a plan or a dislike for parenting. Do you think it’s going to get easier the more you have?!

 

[CheesyMarmite]

Hope you all don't think I'm an imposter here, I have one child....never want another thanks to a traumatic birth at the start of the first lockdown. Still trying to convince my husband to get the snip! Not sure why it'd have to be me that undergoes a procedure to make sure I never have another baby!
Anyways, I completely get why some people never want children, it's bloody hard work and your life is 100% different overnight! I'd never ever judge someone for never wanting kids, but I have been judged for only wanting one, flippin' annoying!
I adore my little girl, but there are some days, normally after a tit night of sleep, where I daydream about having my old life for just one day. I miss those days sometimes!
I'm always getting asked when we'll have another and that question makes me want to punch someone

 

[mcfeez]

Hope you all don't think I'm an imposter here, I have one child....never want another thanks to a traumatic birth at the start of the first lockdown. Still trying to convince my husband to get the snip! Not sure why it'd have to be me that undergoes a procedure to make sure I never have another baby!
Anyways, I completely get why some people never want children, it's bloody hard work and your life is 100% different overnight! I'd never ever judge someone for never wanting kids, but I have been judged for only wanting one, flippin' annoying!
I adore my little girl, but there are some days, normally after a tit night of sleep, where I daydream about having my old life for just one day. I miss those days sometimes!
I'm always getting asked when we'll have another and that question makes me want to punch someone

It never stops does it. I am fairly certain I don't want any kids now, but have said in the past that if I did have children I'd definitely only have one. That was also unacceptable to people! "Oh no, you can't do that, that's cruel. You need to have at least two!" Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Satisfying Click]

I don’t understand people who have multiple children without a plan or a dislike for parenting. Do you think it’s going to get easier the more you have?!

Reminds me of Kate Winslet in Revolutionary Road: Look, the only reason we moved out here was because I got pregnant. Then we had another child to prove the first one wasn’t a mistake.

Although I can imagine if someone was going to tell you how utterly thankless and tiring parenting is, prospective parents would brush it off thinking, "They're just knackered, they're exaggerating, ours will be different."

 

[CheesyMarmite]

It never stops does it. I am fairly certain I don't want any kids now, but have said in the past that if I did have children I'd definitely only have one. That was also unacceptable to people! "Oh no, you can't do that, that's cruel. You need to have at least two!" Absolutely ridiculous.

I really hate when people try to push their version of an 'ideal family' on to others like that!

 

[Traveler001]

Exactly! it’s easy to say yes to babysitting when there’s 1 child but what happens when another comes along? Now you’re expected to watch 2. What happens when the other family start having kids? Are you supposed to have all the kids? I feel for grandparents sometimes cause it must be so hard saying no. Especially as you get older. Babysitting in your 60s is a lot easier than doing it in your 70s/80s.
I don’t understand people who have multiple children without a plan or a dislike for parenting. Do you think it’s going to get easier the more you have?!

Exactly, there's so many things that can happen that mean family doing childcare doesn't work out.

I've seen some people ask why people have multiple children when they hate being a parent and there's been lots of answers eg partner wanted another, didn't want an only child and the weirdest... 'when I die I don't want my kid to go through it alone so I had another one'... erm...

Hope you all don't think I'm an imposter here, I have one child....never want another thanks to a traumatic birth at the start of the first lockdown. Still trying to convince my husband to get the snip! Not sure why it'd have to be me that undergoes a procedure to make sure I never have another baby!
Anyways, I completely get why some people never want children, it's bloody hard work and your life is 100% different overnight! I'd never ever judge someone for never wanting kids, but I have been judged for only wanting one, flippin' annoying!
I adore my little girl, but there are some days, normally after a tit night of sleep, where I daydream about having my old life for just one day. I miss those days sometimes!
I'm always getting asked when we'll have another and that question makes me want to punch someone

If you had a second one you'd still be wrong anyway. Wrong sex, wrong age gap, wrong way of introducing your child to the baby.

And don't forget how wrong you are already. Did you breastfeed? Wrong! Oh you bottlefed? Wrong! Child naps? Wrong. Child watches TV? Wrong. That nursery you send the child to? Wrong. You work? Wrong. You quot and now you stay home? Wrong!

Just do what you want then you can guarantee you're at least pleasing one person all the time!

 

[ElectricDreams]

My parents and my sisters in laws both share the childcare for my nephew. Before he started school nursery, he would go to day nursery for 1 or 2 mornings a week and they would pick him up and have him for the afternoon a complicated arrangement dependent on whether my sister was working days or nights (his dad would drop off on the mornings). Now one set of grandparents does the morning school run and the other has him for the afternoon (and the dog too). This week he was poorly so my parents had him 4 out of the 5 days. My mum was exhausted by Friday afternoon.

My parents are in their early 60s but my dad has a complex degenerative neurological condition and my mum is his carer. When she looks after my nephew it's like having 2 children to supervise as my dad is not independent. My mum can't really leave him unsupervised with my nephew so it's not an even split like with the other grandparents. My dad's condition will deteriorate in the next few years which will make it more difficult for my parents to do the childcare.

My sister is expecting baby number 2 next year, and while my nephew will be at school full time, there'll still be times when they have to have them both and I worry about the strain on my mum. My sister is a nurse and BIL works shifts so conventional childcare doesn't really work for them without help from grandparents. My mum would also do anything to help save them money.

I know my sister appreciates what they do for her but she can be very ungrateful at times and I don't think she realises how difficult my mum finds it.

 

[Tinkerbell cat]

I am 32, I have been with my partner just under 4 years. We have no kids. We have a comfortable life, we work hard and live in a lovely house with our cat. Our money is spent on us. We go out usually one night during the week, maybe some drinks in the local, out to watch the football, a nice meal, the cinema – Just whatever we fancy. Then we go out on the weekend, again a nice meal, drinks somewhere, bowling, a pub crawl round town on the Saturday. We travel quite often and probably go on about 3 holidays a year, Weekend trips to London to see my partners family, Thorpe Park/Alton towers a couple of times a year, City break somewhere. We only have to worry about our cat who is just adored and spoilt rotten. When we go away we have a lovely house/cat sitter come stay and we always come home to a very content little kitty!



The thing is, if we had kids, all of this would have to change. Right not we are just too selfish and that is the truth. We are both enjoying life and want to keep it like this for a little while longer. I like being able to be hungover on a Sunday and lie on the sofa all day watching Netflix or if we feel like it maybe go out for a nice lunch somewhere. I like being able to make plans each weekend and not have to worry about getting the child minded. I like being able to go on holiday and literally do whatever we want. I guess one day we will have kids, we have spoken about it, maybe in a few years but I guess when the time is right for us but only if its right for both of us. I am maternal, I would like a child one day, I absolutely adore my nephews/niece but its just too bit a commitment right now for us as everything would have to change. It isn’t just the social aspect, it’s the work life too which would have to change.



When we do decide we want to try for kids it will be when it suits us and not because there is this this pressure to have one because its what people think I should do at my age. I have friends with kids who constantly ask me when its my turn and it really does my head in, especially when half the time all I hear is them complain about their children. Then you get the ones that say when I do have kids il be old and stuck in the house compared to them as their child will be basically grown up so they can go on solo holidays, nights out etc whereas I will be stuck in with a child. I think that is a ridiculous thing to say, I can do all that now while I still actually want to. Having a child won’t be the end of me doing things I want to do, I will just have to change how I do things and right now, that isn’t for me.

 

[dancingqueen5678]

It never stops does it. I am fairly certain I don't want any kids now, but have said in the past that if I did have children I'd definitely only have one. That was also unacceptable to people! "Oh no, you can't do that, that's cruel. You need to have at least two!" Absolutely ridiculous.

Exactly, there's so many things that can happen that mean family doing childcare doesn't work out.

I've seen some people ask why people have multiple children when they hate being a parent and there's been lots of answers eg partner wanted another, didn't want an only child and the weirdest... 'when I die I don't want my kid to go through it alone so I had another one'... erm...

I don't understand that mentality either!!
Firstly, cause I am an only child so it's a bit of a spit in the face to my childhood. Like I had a cruel childhood being an only child; my childhood was tit for a variety of reasons but siblings would have made it 10 times worse tbh. At the very least being an only child I had the escape of my own room. I'd have had to share. (side note: I have step siblings now but didn't acquire them until late teens and they were mid/late twenties so they've never lived with me. I don't count them as siblings.)


but also cause there's no guarantees anyway. Yeah when my parents die it'll be up to me to sort everything but I could have sibling that I hate. Having more than 1 doesn't guarantee that they'll be close or even like each other. You can't choose your family at the end of the day. Having 1 to keep the other company is such a bizarre reason to have more than 1

 

[judgejohndeed]

Right not we are just too selfish and that is the truth.

I get what you mean here but I don't think you, or anyone who doesn't want kids, are selfish and I really wish we would stop using this word in relation to this issue. We don't owe anything at all to imaginary children that don't exist yet, wanting your lifestyle to stay the same, have spare time that isn't dictated around a child, spending every spare penny you have on stuff for children, is not selfish. Using the word selfish only makes sense if you (general you, not you specifically as you haven't said this) think we're all obliged to have kids, and those of us who choose not to are somehow selfishly depriving everyone else of a child.
What I actually do find very selfish is other people pressuring women to hurry up and have kids. My Mum is always going on about wanting a grandchild - at the cost of what? My body doing the pregnancy and birth, me paying for it all, my life changing completely, while she would see my child a couple of times a week for a couple of hours. The people demanding and expecting that we produce children for them are the selfish ones. People who go on about wanting grandkids, nieces/nephews, whatever - if you want a child in your life so badly, have your own. I'm not your surrogate.

 

[dancingqueen5678]

I get what you mean here but I don't think you, or anyone who doesn't want kids, are selfish and I really wish we would stop using this word in relation to this issue. We don't owe anything at all to imaginary children that don't exist yet, wanting your lifestyle to stay the same, have spare time that isn't dictated around a child, spending every spare penny you have on stuff for children, is not selfish. Using the word selfish only makes sense if you (general you, not you specifically as you haven't said this) think we're all obliged to have kids, and those of us who choose not to are somehow selfishly depriving everyone else of a child.
What I actually do find very selfish is other people pressuring women to hurry up and have kids. My Mum is always going on about wanting a grandchild - at the cost of what? My body doing the pregnancy and birth, me paying for it all, my life changing completely, while she would see my child a couple of times a week for a couple of hours. The people demanding and expecting that we produce children for them are the selfish ones. People who go on about wanting grandkids, nieces/nephews, whatever - if you want a child in your life so badly, have your own. I'm not your surrogate.

You could argue it's more selfish to have a child depending on the reasoning for having one and given the world currently, although thats very existential crisis of me

 

[Tinkerbell cat]

I get what you mean here but I don't think you, or anyone who doesn't want kids, are selfish and I really wish we would stop using this word in relation to this issue. We don't owe anything at all to imaginary children that don't exist yet, wanting your lifestyle to stay the same, have spare time that isn't dictated around a child, spending every spare penny you have on stuff for children, is not selfish. Using the word selfish only makes sense if you (general you, not you specifically as you haven't said this) think we're all obliged to have kids, and those of us who choose not to are somehow selfishly depriving everyone else of a child.
What I actually do find very selfish is other people pressuring women to hurry up and have kids. My Mum is always going on about wanting a grandchild - at the cost of what? My body doing the pregnancy and birth, me paying for it all, my life changing completely, while she would see my child a couple of times a week for a couple of hours. The people demanding and expecting that we produce children for them are the selfish ones. People who go on about wanting grandkids, nieces/nephews, whatever - if you want a child in your life so badly, have your own. I'm not your surrogate.

I couldn't agree more. You have worded it perfectly

 

[Inforapenny]

I've got a day off today. Had a lie in, pottered around the house. I am now having a cup of watching YouTube videos whilst decluttering my makeup and looking on TripAdvisor for fun things to do in Stockholm.... because we're going their over Christmas.
Later we're off for a swim and then sauna at David Lloyds. My husband will be out most of the weekend with football (bliss) and I'm planning on booking my annual lip filler/Botox and a hair cut this weekend.
Call me selfish or indulgent or shallow blah blah blah but most people I know have had kids for their own ego, so something that will love them and prove to the world they are needed. As for having kids, the world is fucked up enough and the environment is on its knees, we don't need more kids ....yet I'm more selfish for not having kids.

 

[ChampagneBox]

Been keeping away from this thread as it triggers me a little due to my confused thoughts but I haven’t got anyone to talk to about it, I reached out to a friend but she’s keen to have kids eventually so not sure she can fully understand me.

so we’ve spoken a bit more about it, and something that stands out to me in OHs opinion on having kids is he keeps saying things to the effect of ‘don’t you think life will get boring without kids?’ Which I have a few thoughts on.

firstly, I’m not going to have kids because I’m bored. I said to him isn’t life what you make it? Doesn’t have to be boring if you don’t want it to be?
secondly, I’m a bit worried this means he thinks I’m boring. Sorry if I like going up to bed to just watch tv for a few hours in the evening, or going on adults only holidays or going to work 9-5 and go home again. He’s hardly a busy bee, we do duck all on weekends together.

also, I know full well he’s holding the idea of getting married over me. I want to get married, he doesn’t. He wants kids, I don’t. He knows that I can’t even talk about the marriage thing when I don’t want kids. He knows full well what he’s doing. he gets defensive about getting married like I do about having kids.

Not to derail the thread, but honestly we’re having issues that aren’t anything to do with having kids, I know we are And I know what I should probably do about that but I don’t know if I want to

 

[Traveler001]

Been keeping away from this thread as it triggers me a little due to my confused thoughts but I haven’t got anyone to talk to about it, I reached out to a friend but she’s keen to have kids eventually so not sure she can fully understand me.

so we’ve spoken a bit more about it, and something that stands out to me in OHs opinion on having kids is he keeps saying things to the effect of ‘don’t you think life will get boring without kids?’ Which I have a few thoughts on.

firstly, I’m not going to have kids because I’m bored. I said to him isn’t life what you make it? Doesn’t have to be boring if you don’t want it to be?
secondly, I’m a bit worried this means he thinks I’m boring. Sorry if I like going up to bed to just watch tv for a few hours in the evening, or going on adults only holidays or going to work 9-5 and go home again. He’s hardly a busy bee, we do duck all on weekends together.

also, I know full well he’s holding the idea of getting married over me. I want to get married, he doesn’t. He wants kids, I don’t. He knows that I can’t even talk about the marriage thing when I don’t want kids. He knows full well what he’s doing. he gets defensive about getting married like I do about having kids.

Not to derail the thread, but honestly we’re having issues that aren’t anything to do with having kids, I know we are And I know what I should probably do about that but I don’t know if I want to

Boring people are bored, it's him that's boring, not you.

Also never, ever have kids you don't want for someone else. What if he leaves or dies! Honestly there are so many women out there raising kids they didn't want. Lots of the 'regretful parent' stories I've read start off with a woman having kids for her husband.

I'm sorry you're going through a difficult time in the relationship. I'm not going to say leave because it's not that easy but I hope you manage to improve things soon.

 

[dancingqueen5678]

Been keeping away from this thread as it triggers me a little due to my confused thoughts but I haven’t got anyone to talk to about it, I reached out to a friend but she’s keen to have kids eventually so not sure she can fully understand me.

so we’ve spoken a bit more about it, and something that stands out to me in OHs opinion on having kids is he keeps saying things to the effect of ‘don’t you think life will get boring without kids?’ Which I have a few thoughts on.

firstly, I’m not going to have kids because I’m bored. I said to him isn’t life what you make it? Doesn’t have to be boring if you don’t want it to be?
secondly, I’m a bit worried this means he thinks I’m boring. Sorry if I like going up to bed to just watch tv for a few hours in the evening, or going on adults only holidays or going to work 9-5 and go home again. He’s hardly a busy bee, we do duck all on weekends together.

also, I know full well he’s holding the idea of getting married over me. I want to get married, he doesn’t. He wants kids, I don’t. He knows that I can’t even talk about the marriage thing when I don’t want kids. He knows full well what he’s doing. he gets defensive about getting married like I do about having kids.

Not to derail the thread, but honestly we’re having issues that aren’t anything to do with having kids, I know we are And I know what I should probably do about that but I don’t know if I want to

Realistically if life was boring without kids wouldn't you be bored now?

 

[ChampagneBox]

Realistically if life was boring without kids wouldn't you be bored now?

Yeah exactly, but I’m worried he is starting to get a little bored. We don’t really do a lot of different things And obvs haven’t been able to go on a proper holiday for nearly 2 years which would break up the monotony slightly. I mean i do suggest different things to do but I can’t drive so it would always be him driving and he drives all week for work so by the time the weekend comes he’s not up for it

 

[Mamacita]

Yeah exactly, but I’m worried he is starting to get a little bored. We don’t really do a lot of different things And obvs haven’t been able to go on a proper holiday for nearly 2 years which would break up the monotony slightly. I mean i do suggest different things to do but I can’t drive so it would always be him driving and he drives all week for work so by the time the weekend comes he’s not up for it

Me and my boyfriend don't do that much either because I guess life gets in the way and both of us are prone to settling into a routine easily and not being creative with finding exiting things to do, but like others said-it is what you make it, can try break up the monotony with various things, not only holidays I guess. I think life with kids can be boring, I mean I would expect the routine element to increase a lot if you have to take care of a child

 

[ot55]

I had a coworker say that to me once ‘won’t you be bored without kids?’. Whenever I’m feeling a bit bored, I never think ‘oh man i wish a child to look after right now!’.

And tbh I think even if people do have children because of boredom, boring just takes on a new meaning as you adapt and it becomes your new normal. When you’ve come home from work and you’ve gotta bathe the kids, cook their dinner, help them with their homework, take them to clubs, tidy up after them etc…