Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Whataday21]

That’s for the jury to decide

I was unclear earlier in a reply to you and it’s too late to edit so to put it more clearly to address your confusion of why the judge said the jury can find only one guilty, despite “it being joint enterprise”: the prosecution is arguing joint enterprise, but that doesn’t mean the jury has to accept it’s joint enterprise.

Of course, and I think they will since she assisted with the luring, the written plans, the alibi, the fake text messages to herself, pretending to not know Brianna was dead. Alot of assistance.

 

[allaboutmoi]

Sorry I can’t share anything on here please don’t ask anyone to do so.

Sorry didn’t realise , I can understand why

 

[CocoLoco2]

Just be mindful you aren’t talking about the other son.

I know which is which, have seen them together and they are easy to distinguish.

 

[Shinythings]

The rage this would cause me! Like being in a group project where one doesn’t pull their weight levels of anger

Honestly, this was the most infuriating thing for me was a couple of jurors who did not get the judge directions. You have to be SURE. Not just 'probably' or 'you think'.

 

[Shinythings]

Esther Ghey has said there’s more she’d like to be open about in regards to Brianna’s mental health but that she had to wait until after the trial. She’s doing a project about mindfulness in school and mental health support for teenagers so I think at least Brianna’s special arrangements for anxiety will be discussed.

I felt like Mum and school were alluding to possible Autism but could be wrong.

 

[Em312]

My prediction is they'll both be found guilty but the jury won't be unanimous, so deliberations may take longer than many here are predicting.

(The judge will ask for unanimous decisions to start with, then, after an amount of time that is down to her discretion, may say she will accept a majority decision of 11:1 etc.)

 

[Whataday21]

Wasn't the phone thrown down a drain? I imagine the device is completely broken or at least badly water damaged. What they can pull from it remotely is only what is uploaded to the cloud, so probably a lot missing.

Surely all their conversations are on the snapchat cloud though? It seems very odd they'd not be able to get these transcripts.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Do we know whether the press asked for the release of the X and Y interview footage yesterday? And if they didn’t ask does that mean we’ll never get to see it? Not sure how these things work.

They can’t be named, I guess releasing the interview might identify them?
I think if they asked, they would be told no, or ask again after sentencing

 

[Tofino]

I saw this too and was just trying to find it. I couldn't find it again - would you link it to me?

Very telling if you ask me and perhaps not the best wording given that she was a real victim "give as good as she gets"

It was in the bbc live feed, scroll to 4pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-67771276

 

[hooplifehero]

It’s pound shop /wish/ Ali baba/ temu anyway, not Tesco

Think I've heard it as Lidl and Aldi as well as Primark, mostly, so it might be a class/regional thing. Temu would be a pretty modern variant? Ali Baba, I've not heard of!

 

[LittleMy]

Yes I get that. But the point remains that teenagers & adults who commit evil don’t usually look evil. And expecting them to, thinking you can tell from photos, is unfortunately naive.

Has anybody here actually said that though? Genuine question, I may have missed it.

 

[redball00n]

What’s her instagram handle?

Not sure if I can post here unless the reporting restrictions are lifted tomorrow??

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

But X was at the same school wasn’t she? The Head must have opinions on her too which she can’t voice. I do wonder if they’d called in the police after the cannabis gummies incident would things be different now? We’ll never know of course - but aren’t the police routinely called by school when pupils are caught with drugs on site?

Drugs yes, but can't you buy those cannabis gummies off Amazon etc now? I think they're totally legal. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

[repairshoplover]

There is a YouTube channel called Crime Scene 2 Court Room. They seem to have a documentary with Esther B’s mum talking about how she found out etc.

 

[lookwhatthecatdraggedin1]

I found old instagrams with minimum followers but that’s about it, I seen the names on a tiktok search bar on a video of Esther’s statement

 

[Jasminexx02]

I agree.

What’s irksome and ridiculous though is that this whole discussion of whether it was a hate crime was partly re-kicked off by the following exchange:

I commented in response to someone else that "it didn’t qualify as a hate crime but to imply (and I’m not talking about you specifically) that transphobia wasn't involved is disingenuous. And I say that as someone who doesn’t believe in gender identity ideology."

Note I specify that it is not a hate crime.

Directly underneath that comment @jasminexx posted: "Christ, just say you’re desperate for it to be a trans hate crime to prove your political views if that how you feel."

So despite me saying (a) it wasn't a hate crime and (b) I'm gender critical, Jasmine decided to accuse me of wanting to say it was a hate crime for political reasons. She was trying to silence discussion even though I agreed with her on the main points. That's illogical and idiotic. The transphobic comments came up in the closing speeches, some of us were discussing them as we all discuss all aspects of it.

Amazingly some of us are able to comprehend that two things can be true at the same time: that it is not a hate crime as Girl X and Boy Y were motivated by simply killing someone AND that Boy Y was transphobic and that was therefore relevant to his views on Brianna.

I already told you that my comment was NOT just aimed at you. I have not once tried to silence discussion points, I’ve merely given my own opinion, just like you and many others have done. If you feel like my opinion is “illogical and idiotic” then go ahead, nowhere did I say that boy Y’s comments were not transphobic though, my opinion is just that they’re not really relevant to the crime. Seriously unsure why you took my comment as a personal attack

 

[Jasminexx02]

No, snapchat doesn't back up to the cloud and if girl X deleted the chats on her side then they would've deleted for Brianna too

 

[fishyfishfish]

Why do you think they decided not to prosecute it as a hate crime?

My guess (and it is a guess) is because they are being tried together and there's no evidence (that we've seen) that Girl X was/is transphobic. I've based this assumption on the 'multiple offenders' guidance from the CPS:

Spoiler: CPS Multiple Offenders Guidance

Demonstrated: multiple offenders
Prosecutors will need to analyse carefully the facts of a particular case to determine whether a particular offender can be said to have participated in a demonstration of hostility.

In R v Davies and Ely [2003] EWCA Crim 3700, a joint allegation of wounding with intent, the fact that one offender uttered words of racial abuse during the attack did not make all guilty of the aggravated offence, on the facts of the case, and the defendants should not be so sentenced when the evidence did not identify the one who uttered the words.

However, in RG and LT v DPP May LJ said that, "an offender may demonstrate racial hostility by joining in the activities of a group of people where a sufficient number of members of the group are themselves demonstrating racial hostility, and where the defendant's adherence to the group is such as to go beyond mere presence within the group, but so as to associate himself or herself with the demonstration of racial hostility which the group as a whole is displaying".

 

[Jemimah]

When I did jury service we appointed a chair. We did a quick poll of guilty/ not guilty and then started our discussions from there.

Was there someone independent in the room to make sure it was fair? I,e the quieter ones didn't get persuaded by the louder ones?

 

[CrushedIcePlease]

Application for what?

The original application to name the murderers. Plenty of others were there anyway but you would think they would send someone.