Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Salted Caramel]

On 11 February 2023, Brianna Ghey, a 16-year-old British transgender girl from Birchwood in Warrington, Cheshire, England, was killed in Culcheth Linear Park in Culcheth, Warrington.

Two accused teenagers, both aged 15 at the time, are in police custody, having been charged with murder four days after the incident. Due to the nature of the case, and the ages of those involved, reporting restrictions were put in place preventing the naming of both of the defendants, as well as any other children mentioned during the trial. During the trial, the accused girl was referred to as X, and the accused boy as Y.

A motive has not been established.

The trial commenced on 27 November 2023 at Manchester Crown Court. The trial is expected to take four weeks, with the aim reaching a verdict before Christmas.

Previous thread https://tattle.life/threads/brianna-ghey-murder-trial-2.43133

Murder of Brianna Ghey - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The podcast can be listened to here
(A Daily Mail production)

Court updates by the BBC's Judith Moritz on Twitter (X) https://x.com/JudithMoritz

Manchester Evening News

Links to some sites auto removed

There's a couple of sites where links are automatically removed on tattle, explained for each one below. Hidden links - redirection links are removed as it needs to be clear where a user is being sent. Facebook story links - as they doxx the person that shared it. Try to post the photo or...

tattle.life

Liverpool Echo live updates while Court is sitting

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

(Please don't ask for links to info about the identities of X and Y as this information is protected under English law.)

 

[gmf21]

Are the jury expected to retire today? I have been trying to follow this one but haven’t had the time to read all the court updates each day.
i know there’ll be no Christmas for Brianna’s family, but it would be even more awful for them to have it drag on over the public holidays. I hope they’ll be left in peace after the verdict but somehow I doubt it Brianna and the accused being so young, plus Brianna’s trans status probably means there will be a frenzy whatever the verdict. Not nice for the jury either - does anyone else worry that they’ll be in a rush to reach a verdict?

 

[hooplifehero]

Out of interest is there anyone on this thread who would struggle to reach a decision if they were in the jury?

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

I wouldn't struggle to reach a decision based on the judges directions. I would however struggle to make a decision if we had to be sure who had been the one to use the knife.

Guilty AF, both of them.

And I'm not sure if they will retire today as there is summing up etc but I'm sure by tomorrow they will have done. I am hoping for a quick return from the jury but we hoped that with the LL trial too and that didn't go as we had hoped!

 

[MrsDimSum]

Out of interest is there anyone on this thread who would struggle to reach a decision if they were in the jury?

I think I might. If I was pushed to say that beyond all reasonable doubt I believe they had both stabbed her.

I hope that makes sense?

 

[sydney1990]

I wouldn't struggle to reach a decision based on the judges directions. I would however struggle to make a decision if we had to be sure who had been the one to use the knife.

Guilty AF, both of them.

And I'm not sure if they will retire today as there is summing up etc but I'm sure by tomorrow they will have done. I am hoping for a quick return from the jury but we hoped that with the LL trial too and that didn't go as we had hoped!

I would also be confident to return a guilty verdict for both of them. Agree it’s much harder to say who actually did the stabbing (probably both) but from the evidence I’ve heard, they are both 100% guilty of murder.

And as much as the evidence was stacked up against her, I think the LL trial was always going to take longer to deliberate, it was a hugely complex and lengthy trial involving multiple charges and lots of complicated medical evidence. Fingers crossed this one is much quicker and they reach the right decision.

 

[duckdinner]

I think I might. If I was pushed to say that beyond all reasonable doubt I believe they had both stabbed her.

I hope that makes sense?

I agree with doubting/questioning if they both stabbed Brianna, however Justice Yip said that this is one if the questions the jury must ask themselves:

Are we sure that the defendant we are considering deliberately participated in the killing of Brianna, whether by stabbing her or causing, assisting or encouraging the other defendant to stab her?

They might not have both stabbed her, but I could 100% say yes to that question given what we have heard in the trial.

 

[hooplifehero]

I don’t believe either of them is NOT guilty of murder, to put it that way.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I agree with doubting/questioning if they both stabbed Brianna, however Justice Yip said that this is one if the questions the jury must ask themselves:

Are we sure that the defendant we are considering deliberately participated in the killing of Brianna, whether by stabbing her or causing, assisting or encouraging the other defendant to stab her?

They might not have both stabbed her, but I could 100% say yes to that question given what we have heard in the trial.

nail. head.

based on the evidence presented, I am 100% certain that they are both responsible for causing her death, regardless of who stabbed her. Evidence:

	Girl X	Boy Y
Planned	Yes	Yes
Brought Weapon	No	Yes
Transphobic	No	Yes
Forensics	Yes	Yes
Blood	No	Yes

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

nail. head.

based on the evidence presented, I am 100% certain that they are both responsible for causing her death, regardless of who stabbed her. Evidence:

	Girl X	Boy Y
Planned	Yes	Yes
Brought Weapon	No	Yes
Transphobic	No	Yes
Forensics	Yes	Yes
Blood	No	Yes

This sums it up well but it makes Y look more guilty than X which I actually don't think is the case. I think X's planning started the whole thing and I also think the transphobic stuff is a red herring. Her gender didn't come into the planning. She just happened to be transgender. I do think however that X picked Brianna because she was vulnerable and her vulnerability was partly down to her gender dysphoria.

I think the are both equally guilty, even if X didn't touch a knife. She pushed this idea, planned it and told Y to bring the knife.
---
Oh and we don't know that she didn't bring a knife, we just know they didn't find one. Similar to the blood. I think she cleaned herself up and washed her stuff. There has been a lot of mention of the clothes she wore and I think it's because it's not black and white. It's not that she didn't get blood on her, it's that there was no evidence of it.

 

[fishyfishfish]

This sums it up well but it makes Y look more guilty than X which I actually don't think is the case. I think X's planning started the whole thing and I also think the transphobic stuff is a red herring. Her gender didn't come into the planning. She just happened to be transgender. I do think however that X picked Brianna because she was vulnerable and her vulnerability was partly down to her gender dysphoria.

I think the are both equally guilty, even if X didn't touch a knife. She pushed this idea, planned it and told Y to bring the knife.
---
Oh and we don't know that she didn't bring a knife, we just know they didn't find one. Similar to the blood. I think she cleaned herself up and washed her stuff. There has been a lot of mention of the clothes she wore and I think it's because it's not black and white. It's not that she didn't get blood on her, it's that there was no evidence of it.

completely agree with all of this, I just meant taking it at face value (should have made that clear, sorry).

The closing statements are pretty damning, I find it hard to believe any juror will find either not guilty based on those alone.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

nail. head.

based on the evidence presented, I am 100% certain that they are both responsible for causing her death, regardless of who stabbed her. Evidence:

	Girl X	Boy Y
Planned	Yes	Yes
Brought Weapon	No	Yes
Transphobic	No	Yes
Forensics	Yes	Yes
Blood	No	Yes

So if you are including “transphobia” in your criteria do you (or others) think this is something the judge will consider? I ask as it could potentially have an effect on sentencing. If it was judged to be a hate crime then would they both cop for that element as X would be aware of Y’s attitudes?

 

[fishyfishfish]

So if you are including “transphobia” in your criteria do you (or others) think this is something the judge will consider? I ask as it could potentially have an effect on sentencing. If it was judged to be a hate crime then would they both cop for that element as X would be aware of Y’s attitudes?

If I were the judge, I would absolutely be including it in Y's sentencing. See also: his texts about the boy from school (can't remember which) who was gay, and he made absolutely horrendous comments about.
Not saying Y should necessarily receive a longer sentence than X, I think they should both get life with no parole (though that's sadly unlikely), but I do think in Y's case it was an aggravating factor.
---
following the Echo reporting. The prosecution are doing a fantastic job IMO, particularly their assassination of Boy Y's lies and contradictions.

 

[Shinythings]

Out of interest is there anyone on this thread who would struggle to reach a decision if they were in the jury?

No, but there will always be one on a jury who will go the opposite of everyone else and be a complete pain and not understand the direction given. I hope in this case we won't have that and we'll have two guilty verdicts delivered swiftly.
---
God she's doing a fantastic job of saying 'he's hiding behind a diagnosis' without directly saying it. When she sums it all up like this, there's really clearly only one verdict.

 

[Whataday21]

By Wedneaday we should have a verdict. I'm hoping for 17-20 years sentence (too low IMO), anything less than 15 will be a kick in the teeth.

 

[fishyfishfish]

By Wedneaday we should have a verdict. I'm hoping for 17-20 years sentence (too low IMO), anything less than 15 will be a kick in the teeth.

does anyone know what the sentencing guidelines are for this? here's hoping for the maximum.

 

[nothinonyou]

Rocky Price's identity was revealed a day after he was found guilty of murder. justice Yip was also in charge of that case. I think she will do the same here once they are found guilty she will lift their anonymity order

 

[fishyfishfish]

This has been suggested by the prosecution. I'd not put this together myself and not seen the same speculated here, but spoiling as it is bleeping awful.

Spoiler: Theory as to why Boy Y was seen bending down next to Brianna

“Boy Y says all I wanted was to see what size d*** it had. Was that why Boy Y approached Brianna as she lay on the ground in Linear Park?

 

[Jasminexx02]

I think he was just saying that to be crude, I’d be very surprised if he actually had done that, I don’t see anything to suggest that he would have

 

[Loppylou89]

So which one of them is causing commotion in the cells