White Allyship

[EiiiEiiiO]

No we really don't. It takes me back to a time of evidential racism.

As I said black isn't a dirty term. The skin is the largest organ so you can definitely tell I'm black.


Correct. Like I'm be honest there were times when I was job hunting I submitted 2 applications. Same education, same work experience etc.

One had a more ethnic name. That one was rejected
One had a more European name. Interview stage.

I phoned their HR and imagine when they tried blaming me for falsifying an application????


Thank for your input. I understand where you are coming from.

And for me with my Jewish allies I feel they can identify well with some aspects of being marginalised and can speak on them i.e. you saying you don't tell people you're Jewish could make me question why and ask how in 2020 we can make people feel uncomfortable for being Jewish, black, Chinese. I have had friends "white-passing" whos other halves don't know they are black due to racism.

As I said white privilege isn't saying your suffering isn't valid, its saying none if it was due to the color of your skin.

Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack points out this like
- I can go shopping alone most of the time and not be followed or harassed
- I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented
- When pulled over by a cop, I don't think of being killed due to my color
- I can chose blemish cover or bandages, spanxs in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.

With regards to the woman you met at work. It's like how I approach white people. You get some who want to talk and some who don't. It's not your job to force them to and it's actually exhausting trying to. But I'm happy you were able to have a conversation with her in the end.

Thanks.
I will tell you why most of the people I know from Temple don’t tell.. because we still to this day in America have people firmly believing “the Jews control all the money, we conspire to keep people poor, Illuminati bullshit..and so on and so on.” I have listened to people go on about about Jews control everything and they’re mad and me thinking oh fuck I hope they don’t find out.
Somehow Hitlers lies that we are at fault for others failings prevails to this day. And people still have an inherent distrust of Jews and dare I say, hatred of them. We are afraid to tell in all honesty (me and my Jewish friends, can’t speak for all Jews obv).
Hell even my dads side of the family hate Jews. I’ve always known to just keep my head down and not tell.
And yeah I’m lucky I guess bc I don’t “look Jewish” cause ya know, Jews look the same but family and friends that “look Jewish” aren’t so lucky. Again not skin color but features so I get what you mean by how my skin color isn’t the factor.

I empathize w what you were saying w the job applications. It’s despicable and pisses me off and they have some balls trying to put it on you.
Sadly it’s not going to ever change imo, yes I’m being a pessimist but truly what I believe.
When I was at college (a top university) It was always one of two things : if someone found out I was Jewish - ”ahh you’re a rich Jew so your parents got you in huh?” Or if saw my last name and it was - “ohh you're like the token immigrant we have to let in huh?” For fuck sake.
It couldn’t be just that I busted my ass and deserved to get in and took out loans of 85,000$ to get an education.

I honestly have gotten to despise America. I hate being here. And esp these past 4 years with this piece of shit in power, people have become much more aggressive, emboldened even and ignorance is somehow lauded these days. Virulent racism and prejudice is somehow ok now - not surprising bc we have a ignorant piece of shit racist as a “leader”. Sadly imo it won’t get any better, I wish it would.
Things just get worse and worse and nothing changes.

I plan to go home to Romania and am putting away to do so in the next 5yrs. I’ll still hide being a Jew (so that’s no different) and there are issues there too, I know that but it will be better than here.
At least cops killing innocent blacks doesn’t happen every fucking day, people shooting people bc they fail at being a normal human isn’t the norm; citizens gunning down a black man jogging and not get arrested till people explode isn’t fucking common.. and a megalomaniac, racist psycho isn’t voted into power.

 

[Gembo]

I’m very grateful for this thread. I really want to educate myself and learn more but I didn’t know where to start. This has really helped. Thank you

 

[bubbletea123]

A very good video by Trevor Noah too.

I also recommend his book called "Born a Crime" about growing up in South Africa under Apartheid.

 

[GossWhore]

I'm a visual kinda girl so if you are too

 

[KINGAA]

Just watched this and it’s really made me think and reflect a lot and I know others in the thread may benefit for watching, really listening and reflecting

Why is it now that we’re seeing BLM everywhere, do we feel the need to stand up all of a sudden?

For me, honestly, I think it’s because I never saw anyone different from me, my privilege has made me feel like I’m equal to everyone and I feel upset and ashamed of myself to be honest. I am not the same.

 

[prinnygrace]

Yes!! I know some people are worried about the fact that the charge has been elevated because it will make it harder to convict. Hopefully there will be enough evidence.... the video probably would be enough if it was a civilian but they seem far more hesitant to admit that for cops. BUT I bet they know there will be global outcry if they get let off the hook now.

Wouldn’t 1st degree require proof that he planned the murder ahead of time? I’m not sure how well they would be able to prove that beyond reasonable doubt (correct me if I’m wrong). 2nd degree I have no doubt about though - there’s more than enough evidence for any normal person to see that!

 

[caitlinbullen]

There is a horrible irony in all these influencers posting their blank screenshots, ‘muted’ etc, and using the #blacklivesmatter hashtag, because in doing so they have muted all the wonderful content that people were accessing via that hashtag and all that is left is a sea of black screenshots now, as opposed to all the fantastic educational stuff that was there. It’s like the biggest .

There are loads of stories now asking people to remove the hashtag but of course the damage is largely done this morning. Ffs.

 

[disillusionedbythegram]

So my husband and I have had a quite difficult conversation this morning.
I’ve been doing lots of reading and self reflection this week - and I’ve learned a LOT. As a family, we are very left wing and inclusive and I was shocked at the amount I didn’t know.
My husband and I were chatting this morning about a news article we’d both seen about Minneapolis deciding to defund the police. I had read a few articles about why this is being seen as a possible solution and how it would work in practice, so when I saw the article I felt a sense of joy that the protests in the US are having an impact. My husbands take on it was that it’s a stupid idea. I wanted to understand his viewpoint but it turns out that the extent of his knowledge on it was that one news article. This opened up a can of worms where it came to light that the extent of his reading on this whole issue was: the things he happened to stumble across on his Facebook and twitter feed. Naturally this means that all he’s seen (by his own admission) is statues of slave traders in Britain being defaced/torn down, and people “rioting and looting” in the US.
I pointed out that this was problematic because whilst he agrees with the sentiment of black lives matter, he wasn’t actually doing anything the enhance his own understanding. By following major news outlets but no prominent black speakers he was only listening to one side, in an argument that really shouldn’t have two sides (I say this in the sense of I don’t think whites people have a leg to stand on when ‘debating’ black lives matter, a lot just think they do, and that’s the side he’s been reading on). Granted he doesn’t agree with the majority of what he’s been seeing, but I found it quite upsetting that he’d made absolutely zero effort to try and be better and learn, almost like the mentality of thinking he was already an expert on something he actually knows hardly anything about.

It came to a head where I told him I was really disappointed he hadn’t taken this opportunity to learn and be better. He said it’s because he hasn’t wanted to, because it’s too much. I basically said tough shit we don’t have a choice anymore.

In the end he’s asked if I can direct him towards some accounts or information where he won’t get it wrong - he wants to do better. The only problem is he’s primarily on twitter and I don’t use it.
So would anyone be able to direct me towards some twitter accounts that have been really useful and informative throughout this movement? So I can pass them onto him and diversify his newsfeed away from the typical news outlets.

Thanks in advance.

 

[SunshineRae]

Thanks for being so patient with me trying to formulate a response. Work got on top of me.


So to answer "What can white allies do on social media and off"?

1. Start conversations with your fellow white people (especially the ones who are not allies yet)
- Don't wait for black people to start the conversation constantly, this is a relay race so we are passing the baton as honestly, we are tired.
- These conversations can be about on current affairs happening within black communities such as George Floyd and grow from there.
- Raise unconscious bias questions such as have you ever questioned being in a room just filled with white people, your interactions with police, your position on dating outside your race, assumptions you have made about other races in the past?
- It is perfectly OK if you have changed your initial stance on these bias, but by starting the conversation with other white people you can make them aware of things they may never have thought to question. (For example, my friend put forward the question for her white followers to note how many other races were in the room at team meetings, something they had never questioned, yet after than initial conversation it made them rethink) - in the current climate, you could alter this as how many other races do you follow on your socials? Some people will be shocked.

2. Embrace the Uncomfortable
- You all saw the interaction here on Tattle when I made a clear point and instead of the responder understanding, a poorly formed Snickers joke was made -- and that is because of white fragility which makes white people uncomfortable so instead of trying to understand - jokes are cracked, the subject is changed, defensive go up, disagreeing without understanding and the final nail "All Lives Matter" is uttered.
- As I said you have to feel uncomfortable because that is a small margin in comparison to what black people deal with.
- Question "why do I feel this way"? - investigate those emotions that make you uncomfortable instead of shutting them down.

2. Unlearn the rhetoric: "I don't see Color"
- Wild right?
- Some white allies I know use to think some of the things they said were socially acceptable, but really they were overtly racist statements e.g. "I don't see color" -- unlearn that.
- Don't be scared to say black because if you have two Debbies are one is black, just say it because you can definitely see her colour and that is a part of her.
- So yes you see color - because if you don't you are not seeing your black friends, family, coworkers and you don't see the unequal infrastructure and injustice.
- Jane Elliot (one of my fav white allies) spoke about this here (I would implore you to watch the whole video, but 9.44 is where she begins the conversation), also check out her experiment called "How Racist Are You" on brown and blue eyes she did in the UK on Channel 4 a few years ago here.

3. Use resources, not just black people
- After unlearning you have to relearn and although it's great to have these conversations, black people are exhausted so we can't always be the go-to. So books, films and Google are great resources.
- As I once said to my friend "you cannot say you are well-read, when every book you read is by a white author"
- Join a book club and bring that book as your choice to discuss further
- By reading and watching various sources, you become less of an echo chamber with similar people, you get an insight into issues you may not have known about or known how to approach
- Learn slowly and intentional, not just for the sake of learning

Some of my recommended are:

Books:

• The New Jim Crow - Michelle Alexander
• Why I am No Longer Talking to White People About Race - Reni Eddo-Lodge
• The Good Immigrant - Nikesh Shukla
• Brit(ish) - Afua Hirsch
• So You Want To Talk About Race - Ijeoma Oluo
• Natives - Akala
• Tears We Cannot Stop - Michael Eric Dyson
• They Can't Kill Us All - Wesley Lowery
• White Fragility - Robin DiAngelo
• Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? - Beverly Daniel Tatum
• White Rage - Carol Anderson

Films

• When They See Us
• If Beale Street Could Talk
• The Hate U Give
• Dear White People
• Selma
• The Color Purple
• Hidden Figures

- Sidenote: I do not recommend things I have not read or watched myself, so this is a personal list

3. Curate diverse social medias
- This will help keep you informed and out of the echo chamber.
- With diverse, share and comment on these activists posts. Ask questions so you are constantly learning (plus it allows others who may come across the post and have the same question, have a better understanding)
This way you can also help boost the voices of black people and be aware of what is going on when you receive backlash (because trust me you will, not everyone wants a fairer society and you realise that via social media). This will give you a platform to denounce things if you don't racism wins.
- Use your feed to not only like and learn, but speak out, as MLK Jr said "to ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it"

3. Accept your white privilege
- I know many who hate the term, roll their eyes and scoff but its a necessity to accept and acknowledge.
- It also takes a lot of introspectiveness from white people and again can be uncomfortable unpacking these conversations.
- Remember white privilege is not saying you haven't had a hard life or invaliding that, it just notes your skin colour did not add to it
- Use your privilege for good in many of the ways listed in this post - if you have children teach them about this, the younger the better
- If you constantly fight against this, I am sorry but you can never truly be an ally with your eyes shut whilst benefiting from a system that consistently fails black people.

4. Financially help
- There are great organisations out there such as ROTA, Race Equality Foundation, NAACP, Color of Change.
- If that's not possible sign petitions, AND keep the conversation alive. Share it between friends and talk about why you are sharing it.
- As noted, I said not to use black people you know as your go-to Google, but if you have events, workshops, programmes on race and know someone who could contribute and earn from this - ask them. You get to play a part in financially helping and also spreading knowledge.


4. Call them Out!
- That's right - call out your problematic friends, family members etc, "Silence in the face of injustice is complicity with the oppressor"
- Call out your councillors, MPs, Mayors via email, letter - step on their necks and make them feel the pressure!
- To be a good ally, we need to see you doing the work!
- It is no longer enough to say "I'm not racist", you have to show your anti-racism through your actions.

Lastly, this is life long work, and now you can understand why black people are tired. So as a white ally, you need to daily acknowledge your own racial bias and commit to dismantling it within.

This movement cannot be led solely by black people. If we want real change, we need real allyship.

Thanks for reading this, the last couple days have been extremely tough - this really pushed my buttons as my brother was killed due to police brutality (why I left NYC and came back to the UK), but the white allies I had made after has truly shown me change can happen if people are willing to acknowledge and work for it.

Firstly, can I start my saying, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. I can’t imagine the pain you went through and still go through and the trauma that you must re-live every single time, you hear of yet another black life, being taken at the hands of the police.

Secondly thank you for this thread and that fantastic post. So articulate and informative. My attention was really piqued in 2015 by the case of Sandra Bland. Slightly different to George Floyd but I guess, and I am ashamed to say, that it took her death, to really highlight the Black Lives Matter movement/fight (not even sure if that is the correct term) to me. I re watched the video so many times and would show it to any family member/friend who would listen because I was just incredulous as to why she was stopped, how she was treated and the very sad outcome, all because of the colour of her skin. I wanted to see if people were as shocked, and then as angry and saddened as I felt. I also felt silly, being so far removed and feeling useless. Since then I have really educated myself and those around me & I am sure it has contributed to just how passionate my teenage daughter is on this topic & why she is so upset. I still have a lot more to learn and to actively do but it is heartening to see people talking and sharing and wanting to learn and know how best to help in the fight.

I know people in real life who would get their back up about the term white privilege and would try to deny it (perhaps due to not really understanding its meaning and thus accepting) but your description is simple yet perfect and I will be quoting it. “Remember white privilege is not saying you haven't had a hard life or invaliding that, it just notes your skin colour did not add to it.”

I will never be able to fully understand but I want you to know that You have an ally in me.

 

[GossWhore]

 

[cushtybert]

I’d like to learn more, I have no idea how to word anything. I’ve had a conversation with my teenager this morning about this and what we can do about awareness

 

[bubbletea123]

Is anyone concerned about some of the posts from people on threads. I used to think we were all united in that we liked having a space to share honest opinions about influencers and YouTubers etc. But since last week I’ve seen some worrying comments that are disappointing. People saying that talking about racial issues is “derailing the thread”, that fans are “bullying” influencers into posting, that one Instagram story “is enough” to acknowledge the situation. It’s actually worrying but I’m not sure why I assumed everyone would care about what is going on

I don't think it is surprising. Too many people are wrapped up in their own bubble. They need to take note of the quote: "privilege is when you think something isn't a problem because it doesn't directly affect you."
Those people have a lot of learning to do.

 

[GossWhore]

Blimey, it’s TIRING isn’t it! You make an eloquent (you think) and reasoned argument but they keep coming? Back into the space to talk about white allyship! It’s not like there isn’t the rest of the world as a space to talk about white people?

Black people, how have you been DOING THIS all these years?

This week has been on the most exhausting times of my life and I've had cancer twice

Even if reverse racism was real (which I don't believe it is, personally), I fully believe that this isn't the place or time to discuss it. I've seen so many white people stand up and say "but what about US!" And it's like.... it's not about us right now. We've had enough time for it to be about us. It's always about us. Which is wrong.

I found this a really interesting an informative read. I don't know how reputable the source is, but the points are very good and well put across.

Ricky Sherover-Marcuse asserts that "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whites”
- http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

People love whataboutism to deflect instead of reflect

 

[MotherofDragons]

Three More Officers Charged in George Floyd’s Death

Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng were charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

variety.com

Some good news. They’re charging the other three officers with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

And the main officers charge has been elevated to second degree.

This is great news, I hope that people don’t think though that this means that justice has been served and the work can stop, its only just beginning. Let’s hope for an unbiased, non racist, diverse judge and jury for the trial.

 

[chocolate choux]

Those looking for a black doll for their children https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8844440?istCompanyId=a74d8886-5df9-4baa-b776-166b3bf9111c&istFeedId=c290d9a9-b5d6-423c-841d-2a559621874c&istItemId=ixwliitxl&istBid=t&&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157|acid:629-618-1342|cid:9560115721|agid:101739071407|tidla-891288516916|crid:422913086544|nw:g|rnd:10648770023125891693|dvc|adp:|mt:|loc:9046033&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=9560115721&utm_term=8844440&utm_content=shopping&utm_custom1=101739071407&utm_custom2=629-618-1342&gclid=CjwKCAjwq832BRA5EiwACvCWscU2npgI8dHhVMfeGNPRJinpskugMYTzAgHTg5ovwC--ow4bggtG1hoCkLYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I think what I’ll do is ensure any new dolls going forward are black until we have a realistic ethnic mix although where are the Asian dolls?

I did notice that black dolls are either v expensive (one was £176!!) or met Another “quality” -(google black doll and 3 black dolls with Down syndrome came up) As brilliant and dolls with DS is it feels a bit like ticking as many boxes as you can in one toy.

In the interest of supporting BAME-owned businesses, does anyone have any recommendations?

I struggled to find a doll for my daughter’s birthday but stumbled across a Spanish company called Miniland. They have boy/girl dolls of different races - black, white, Asian, Latino/a - and aren’t hugely expensive (£16-24 on Amazon, a bit more expensive if you buy through a small business). I like that the dolls have different features rather than the typical using the same moulds with different coloured plastic - the black girl doll also has curly hair. They are anatomically correct. Finally, they have a sweet vanilla smell which doesn’t seem to fade - my daughter’s doll still smells lovely after six months

They’re also one of the companies that produce black Down’s syndrome dolls. It’s worth noting there is also a white version. Personally I don’t think it’s box-ticking in this case - dolls are becoming more diverse but it is still often a case of ‘you can’t have both’. This leaves BAME parents torn between getting a doll that looks like their kid in terms of race OR in terms of disability. Finding a doll that reflects both can mean so much to children and their parents alike

 

[Mercedes12]

People are trying to protest peacefully but now they are driven to fight violence with violence, following police responses (tear gas, mace, shooting with rubber bullets at point blank range). People are desperate and exhausted - they have been fighting racism for decades with no real change, it honestly feels like the world has reached breaking point.

 

[jammy]

Can I just say I find it incredibly ignorant when the older generation call black people 'coloured' people. I have actually corrected family/friends who have said it.

Wasn't coloured considered the respectful term to use in the 70's? I can understand some of the older generation not keeping up with the changes of the world. My old Dad can't get his head around ATM's, phones etc.

 

[KateESJ]

Just watched this and it’s really made me think and reflect a lot and I know others in the thread may benefit for watching, really listening and reflecting

Why is it now that we’re seeing BLM everywhere, do we feel the need to stand up all of a sudden?

For me, honestly, I think it’s because I never saw anyone different from me, my privilege has made me feel like I’m equal to everyone and I feel upset and ashamed of myself to be honest. I am not the same.

Could've written this myself. I have had the same emotions. I felt guilty about it, that I only ever spoke up about the issue when there had been a very public death that was being spoken about on the media and had caused protests. This one has really made me realise that I should've always done it.

That's definitely my white privilege and honestly? I think it's also my white privilege that's also making me feel so guilty, because it isn't about ME and I shouldn't be making it about me. It may have taken me too long but I can now work on myself and always speak up on these issues. I don't think it's uncommon for white people to be realising this now.

 

[Justwastingtime]

I'm really wary to write this on here because I know that my comment won't be understood and I will automatically be called or viewed as racist.

But let me start by saying that racism to black, Asian, any person other than white is disgusting as I posted on here the other day and anyone who's racist to someone because they're black or have a different religion or colour of skin apart from white is a piece of shit.

However. This is where I'll get abuse now and I feel really uncomfortable to post how I really feel but I fear that racism to white people will go up... Only earlier I saw on Facebook a white man be stamped on and beaten the shit out of by two black men in the London protests. One person filmed it and another tried stopping it, but it didn't attract huge crowds or lots of black people saying leave the white man alone and not to do that, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right. But if the shoe was on the other foot and the white man was stomping on a POC/black person as what happened with George, there would be an outcry. And let me say that what happened to George is absolutely appalling and disgusting.

There is a thread on Mumsnet ongoing right now with the OP saying that basically racism to white people doesn't happen or isn't as important as black people and it has made me really upset, because I have experienced (as a white British person) racial abuse from non-white people. The difference is I contacted the police and wasn't taken seriously, but if the racism was the other way around then things would definitely have been dealt differently. Other mumsnetters have posted their experiences of racism too and I think it's wrong that white people are being viewed as unimportant or that they cannot have racism happen to them. I understand that over history, black people have had racism much worse and are more likely to suffer police racism and brutality, but at least when it's made public a reaction like this happens.

Police here are different to America and racism is much much less tolerated and dealt with quite firmly here compared to America where much of it goes on and gets away with more often. It made me angry to see protests over here turn into riots and throwing bottles and assaulting police in masses when this is another country entirely and what you don't know is that police officer may very possibly also be against George Floyd and racism themselves but people are coming out and attacking police officers because of the actions of other police officers. Many white people in the world are racist but does that make all of them racist and deserve being attacked and beaten for other white people's actions? Why are our police getting attacked and our city destroyed. If you want to make a point, this is not the right way to go about things. As you've seen, many white people have stood on your side and said that this is wrong, the majority of people are against racism and would defend black people, it's unfair to tarnish all white people or turn on them or even be racist to us, too.

I'm sure Tattle will delete my post because there is no freedom of speech in England anymore and because I don't follow exactly what everyone else says. But it's unfair that white people's voices don't get heard either and when white people experience racism nobody listens to them or supports them. What happened to George is disgusting and I hope the police that did that disgusting act get everything they deserve in prison, but certainly in England I feel more is being done to help various ethnicities as opposed to white British people. And as a PP said this country is all about being politically correct, people of colour are more likely to get protected or work because of positive discrimination, people of different diversities over here definitely are protected and looked after better in some cases than white British people. Racism is dealt with nine times out of ten in this country and when Steven Lawrence had what happened to him was in the early 90's whereas now we have come a lot further along and are all about protecting and non discriminating sexuality, religion, race, gender etc.

Tattle - please don't delete my comment. I hear the voices of black people and other ethnicities, but please let all people make a fair comment too. Racism is wrong to any colour, religion or ethnicity.

It’s hard to comment on a video when it’s impossible to know the context. This convo is not saying violence or abuse is ok to any race.

What you described is not not racism but possibly prejudice, again hard to say without knowing what happened. Let’s be clear - Racism is prejudice plus power. And who holds the power in western countries? White people.
Everyone has racial biases but when you have group collective bias with authority and institutional control this is something far bigger than individuals and their wrongs or rights.

‘Positive discrimination’ could be seen as levelling the playing field, seeing as POC were discriminated against for years before.

 

[KateESJ]

Thank you for sharing this! I will definitely be looking into these resources you have shared.

Firstly, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. Sending love to you and your family xx

I’m trying my best to be as active as I can. Just sharing posts on social media isn't enough. Not that it ever was. I do quite a few of these things already (and will continue to do so of course, it needs to continue) - but will continue to increase what I do.

I'm not uncomfortable at all to admit that I can always do more and it's only been recently that I've realised that I don't do enough. Just unfriending my problematic friends on Facebook and sharing posts was never enough. They need calling out (which I've done a few times these past few days. Didnt realise how many assholes I knew) - and I've signed all the petitions I've found on Twitter and managed to donate to an organisation I came across on there also. I wish I could've given more.

But I can do a lot more. There's room for a lot more. It's so right that just being 'not racist' isn't enough, we need to be anti racist.