White Allyship

[KateESJ]

Are we not able to have peaceful protests? How what is happening now is going to make any difference, if anything when I see it, it just makes me more angry and it's all so pointless.

How can more deaths be OK?

The only people who have died at the protests so far, as far as I'm aware, have been killed by police.

The protests HAVE been peaceful. Until the police have shown up and made it violent by throwing tear gas, macing CHILDREN (and adults), running people over and using force against people just carrying out their RIGHT to protest.

What is happening now has the opportunity to make a difference. It's happened before (stonewall, the suffragettes, civil rights etc) and it can happen again. The only way to get people to listen is through demonstrations such as this.

 

[prinnygrace]

Those looking for a black doll for their children https://www.argos.co.uk/product/884...Tg5ovwC--ow4bggtG1hoCkLYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I think what I’ll do is ensure any new dolls going forward are black until we have a realistic ethnic mix although where are the Asian dolls?

I did notice that black dolls are either v expensive (one was £176!!) or met Another “quality” -(google black doll and 3 black dolls with Down syndrome came up) As brilliant and dolls with DS is it feels a bit like ticking as many boxes as you can in one toy.

I don’t know how old your child is but Bratz always have done an amazing job at representation. I played with them as a child and they’re the only dolls I remember showing different cultures and races and having them all be really glamorous. Definitely worth having a look at (or keeping in mind when your child is a little older!)

 

[leoladyxo]

Is anyone else realising that their partners are just not on the same page as them about this?

I believe that I have always been fairly liberal and understanding of the systematic racism experienced by people of colour. Obviously there is always room to understand further and so I have been doing some more reading on the issue over the last couple of weeks.

I have been talking to my boyfriend about these issues and he shouts me down every time, saying that in the UK we have equality of opportunity, education, healthcare and so on forth. I have tried to explain that just because that exists in theory, doesn’t mean that it is applied in practice. He isn’t accepting of this. He keeps getting wrapped up in the vandalism of statues and side issues too, rather than the crux of the problem, which is racial bias.

On the issue of statues, I explained that I was surprised to learn than in the UK in 2020, we still have statues of people who profited from slave trading. I said that I was disgusted and that of course, these statues should be taken down, or left there but with the addition of a corrective plaque, explaining how they made their money etc. My boyfriend did actually agree with me on this part, to my surprise.

However, when I tell him that I have been listening to how people of colour explain their experience, he tells me that I am racist towards my own race and anti white people. It is absolutely blowing my mind as we usually agree on most things politically. It’s awful, and he told me today that “if I carry on with this attitude, that we will probably not sustain a meaningful relationship”. It’s insane to me.

 

[Newbie86]

So let me get this right, you complain if she shows pics of her kids, of her house, if she does any ads, but now you’re also complaining because she’s attempting to use her power to promote anti-racism and awareness? Some people are unbelievable on here.

Exactly this

The silence on this thread today has been very eye opening.

 

[bubbletea123]

I'm really wary to write this on here because I know that my comment won't be understood and I will automatically be called or viewed as racist.

But let me start by saying that racism to black, Asian, any person other than white is disgusting as I posted on here the other day and anyone who's racist to someone because they're black or have a different religion or colour of skin apart from white is a piece of shit.

However. This is where I'll get abuse now and I feel really uncomfortable to post how I really feel but I fear that racism to white people will go up... Only earlier I saw on Facebook a white man be stamped on and beaten the shit out of by two black men in the London protests. One person filmed it and another tried stopping it, but it didn't attract huge crowds or lots of black people saying leave the white man alone and not to do that, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right. But if the shoe was on the other foot and the white man was stomping on a POC/black person as what happened with George, there would be an outcry. And let me say that what happened to George is absolutely appalling and disgusting.

There is a thread on Mumsnet ongoing right now with the OP saying that basically racism to white people doesn't happen or isn't as important as black people and it has made me really upset, because I have experienced (as a white British person) racial abuse from non-white people. The difference is I contacted the police and wasn't taken seriously, but if the racism was the other way around then things would definitely have been dealt differently. Other mumsnetters have posted their experiences of racism too and I think it's wrong that white people are being viewed as unimportant or that they cannot have racism happen to them. I understand that over history, black people have had racism much worse and are more likely to suffer police racism and brutality, but at least when it's made public a reaction like this happens.

Police here are different to America and racism is much much less tolerated and dealt with quite firmly here compared to America where much of it goes on and gets away with more often. It made me angry to see protests over here turn into riots and throwing bottles and assaulting police in masses when this is another country entirely and what you don't know is that police officer may very possibly also be against George Floyd and racism themselves but people are coming out and attacking police officers because of the actions of other police officers. Many white people in the world are racist but does that make all of them racist and deserve being attacked and beaten for other white people's actions? Why are our police getting attacked and our city destroyed. If you want to make a point, this is not the right way to go about things. As you've seen, many white people have stood on your side and said that this is wrong, the majority of people are against racism and would defend black people, it's unfair to tarnish all white people or turn on them or even be racist to us, too.

I'm sure Tattle will delete my post because there is no freedom of speech in England anymore and because I don't follow exactly what everyone else says. But it's unfair that white people's voices don't get heard either and when white people experience racism nobody listens to them or supports them. What happened to George is disgusting and I hope the police that did that disgusting act get everything they deserve in prison, but certainly in England I feel more is being done to help various ethnicities as opposed to white British people. And as a PP said this country is all about being politically correct, people of colour are more likely to get protected or work because of positive discrimination, people of different diversities over here definitely are protected and looked after better in some cases than white British people. Racism is dealt with nine times out of ten in this country and when Steven Lawrence had what happened to him was in the early 90's whereas now we have come a lot further along and are all about protecting and non discriminating sexuality, religion, race, gender etc.

Tattle - please don't delete my comment. I hear the voices of black people and other ethnicities, but please let all people make a fair comment too. Racism is wrong to any colour, religion or ethnicity.

Hi,
I disagree with these comments. You say as a white person if you called the police about racist behaviour towards you, you wouldn't be taken seriously but if a black person called the police about racist behaviour, they would be. I respectfully disagree. I actually think the black person may not be taken seriously too or the police could end up questioning THEM about what they "did" (I have read about this happening).

You also say racism is less tolerated in the UK... Again, I disagree. I witnessed a lot of racism in the UK, in fact, much of it is more "casual" racism. I often heard people say the "c" word to describe Chinese people, and they would say it so nonchalantly, it made me feel sick. I called a family member out on it just last year, saying that it is NOT acceptable to say it.

Now, this is a story of xenophobia. My fiance was at his office in the UK (he is from North America but was an ex-pat) and works for a big international company. One day at the office one of his colleagues just casually starts going on about "Eastern Europeans" and how they "steal all of the jobs" etc (the shite people say). My fiance COULDN'T believe what he was hearing. 1. His parents are Polish so he has a Polish surname. 2. If this was said so casually/publically at the office in North America it would NOT be acceptable and would be taken to HR but it seemed the "norm" in the UK office.
He said the racism he noticed in the UK was astonishing. He heard people on the street throwing the "p" word around a lot and was disgusted.

 

[Juliet]

I would also like to learn more, I want to talk more to people about anti-racism but I find myself scared to offend as I know I’m not educated enough in this subject.

 

[bubbletea123]

Oh please

NO ONE has to worry about the nonsense in your second paragraph in the U.K. EVERYONE does in the US. It is a different country. That is my UK privilege, not white.

And yes actually I did learn as a child what to do when a police car wants you to pull over. Oh, the suffering

No one in the UK is legally knocked back from nightclubs because of their race. Although I’d like to see you trying to get into a black nightclub.

White people are legally excluded from jobs all the time, it’s called positive discrimination. Examples: police, TV presenters, media, medicine degree placements (which lead to being a doctor; then they claim we rely on non-white for the NHS despite us deliberately being excluded). They also specifically limit placements of foreign European (ie, white) students. We are the only race that it’s legal to do this to.

If white people cross the road it’s because we are statistically likely to be victimised. I would rather be the race that has hurt feelings than the race who are targeted for rape and muggings.

Even if the nonsense you wrote was true and applicable in the U.K., I would still take being wary of police and rejected from nightclubs, over being gang raped as a child or tortured to death.

You are being ignorant as fuck and a huge part of the problem.

 

[bubbletea123]

I just shared a link to the resources about white privilege and antiracism on our neighbourhood page. Someone shared a link to the event for the BLM protests and a white lady commented: "anyone's life matters." And I said, "here is a link to resources on white privilege and antiracism." Now obviously I can't force her to look at it but hopefully, she does and anyone else that sees it.

 

[prinnygrace]

I have a very diverse friendship group, white/black/Asian. On the majority of nights out my black friends make us go in front of them to get into clubs because bouncers are more likely to knock them back.

Racism exists in the UK too, let’s not be naive to it. Ignoring the problem creates the problem.

These protests are SO important. If I lived nearer to them I’d be there myself (wearing PPE).

Our voices are so important. We need to use this opportunity. Racism needs to stop. Police brutality needs to stop.

 

[prinnygrace]

So you think the unrest and rioting and even more killing is going to make a change, isn't that what has happened in the past, and it's still happening now.

In what way is rioting, smashing neighborhoods, burning people's shops, ruining more lives going to help the suitation.

It needs to stop & people need to talk, these actions are not going to make the slightest bit of difference as we have all seen before.

A riot is the language of the unheard - MLK Jr.

People have tried to talk. They have been ignored.

It’s time to make a statement. Protests are necessary.

 

[KateESJ]

Even if reverse racism was real (which I don't believe it is, personally), I fully believe that this isn't the place or time to discuss it. I've seen so many white people stand up and say "but what about US!" And it's like.... it's not about us right now. We've had enough time for it to be about us. It's always about us. Which is wrong.

I found this a really interesting an informative read. I don't know how reputable the source is, but the points are very good and well put across.

Ricky Sherover-Marcuse asserts that "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whites”
- http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

 

[Pizzagirl]

Is anyone concerned about some of the posts from people on threads. I used to think we were all united in that we liked having a space to share honest opinions about influencers and YouTubers etc. But since last week I’ve seen some worrying comments that are disappointing. People saying that talking about racial issues is “derailing the thread”, that fans are “bullying” influencers into posting, that one Instagram story “is enough” to acknowledge the situation. It’s actually worrying but I’m not sure why I assumed everyone would care about what is going on

 

[KateESJ]

So we shouldn't support the movement now? Imagine not supporting a movement against racism...

 

[KateESJ]

Three More Officers Charged in George Floyd’s Death

Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng were charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

variety.com

Some good news. They’re charging the other three officers with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

And the main officers charge has been elevated to second degree.

 

[Stacey's mum]

Yes all forms of racism are wrong but I feel like this is not the time, let's help put out the fire first then work on the dry rot of our society. Perhaps you could set up a new anti racism thread and begin that discussion but please don't derail a thread that is for white allyship, a space for learning and support.

 

[KINGAA]

I’m shocked at how many influencers are ignoring everything as it’s not on brand for them. They’re all a waste of space, they actually only care about their own pathetic lives which are a lie!

 

[Mercedes12]

One thing that really grinds my gears is people expressing a negative opinion about the protests when they are straight, white, men - and they’re trying to act as though they could possibly understand the oppression black people have faced for decades.

You are literally in a non-oppressed group for your gender, sexuality and race so how could you possibly know enough to be commenting on how black people should or shouldn’t react to this? Always seems to be middle aged men too. Saying it’s nothing to do with “race” and people are being violent/looting.

 

[Felix08]

Gosswhore; I really appreciate what you're doing, I really do. Trying to educate us who want to be part of the change. You inspired a woman from a small European country to change, to learn and eventually to act! You brought that out in me and I do not even know you. I'm horrified by what is happening but I see so many people on social media taking a stand, using their voice or their brand!

 

[spilltheteaaaa]

Thank you for this post. I’ve always prided myself on not being racist but I think I’m starting to truly understand how being ANTI racist is different, and that’s what I’m now aiming for.

 

[Fudgecakes]

I will never agree with the violence that is being shown in USA, the looting of shops, how is that OK, by supporting the movement you are supporting the violence and death that's comes with it.

You’re missing the point.

It’s not the looting that should stop - it’s the killing of innocent POC.