Ukraine Russia War #2

[Autisteuse]

I've read that all the major telecommunication companies in the UK are making calls to Ukraine free. Finally, they've done something good.
I can barely imagine the terror ordinary Ukranians are feeling as their cities are lit by flames and the stutter of gunfire echoes through the deserted streets. Thank God they have Zelenskiy. If only we had such an admirable leader. He should be an inspiration to all those smug, overfed politicians who ooze on to our screens and waffle away.
I hope everyone on here is all right, and not too overwhelmed. These are emotionally febrile and desperate times. My thoughts are with you all as well.

Hmm I don’t know about Zelensky. He comes across as radicalised in his recent videos. I really don’t think there is any glory in war. I don’t think writing off his wife and kids to a certain death and forcing his people to fight in the name of a country is admirable at all.

How do you think Ukranians would react if Zelenskiy a) threw in the towel to save his own skin b) urged them to submit to Russia?
I agree that war is not a noble thing. It is the exploitation of the working and middle classes by those who have a vested interest in maintaining their hold on money and power. But courage is admirable. Resistance to opressors is admirable. Standing against tyranny, greed and despotism is both admirable and essential.

 

[Mark81]

The only thing I'm a bit confused on is how the west are getting weapons into Ukraine. If they can't put boots on ground and I'd guess flying in is near impossible at the moment.

 

[Notredamn]

I don't see staying, leading and fighting alongside your countrymen for your country as martyrdom. I find that quite a shocking opinion tbh. He is obviously doing something right as they haven't found him yet, I'd say he is being quite clever

He would do no good fleeing the country, he may save himself and family but the country would be doomed.



The other option is to let Russia walk on in.

They are literally fighting for their lives.

Would we not do the same? Or would be let Russia just take over the UK

I don’t suggest he flees.
You can’t compare Russia invading the UK, it’s just too absurd. The political background just isn’t there.
I just don’t know about him. It’s better to question leaders than to just sit and drool over how ‘hot’ they are, anyhow.

 

[Mark81]

I don’t suggest he flees.
You can’t compare Russia invading the UK, it’s just too absurd. The political background just isn’t there.
I just don’t know about him. It’s better to question leaders than to just sit and drool over how ‘hot’ they are, anyhow.

Sorry but Russia invading the UK could easily happen if this escalates further in Europe. Unlikely yes, absurd, no. There seems to be an element of 'this is Ukraines problem', but there is a reason the west is so concerned. Hitler started off just as going after one country. One thing with Putin is we really don't know how far he will go, he comes across as more and more unhinged.

And please don't assume things, I am not drooling or find him hot. I admire a strong leader standing up for his country and his people against bullying aggression. I'm sure he has plenty of bad points, but right now, in battle fighting for survival he is admirable

 

[Notredamn]

I've read that all the major telecommunication companies in the UK are making calls to Ukraine free. Finally, they've done something good.
I can barely imagine the terror ordinary Ukranians are feeling as their cities are lit by flames and the stutter of gunfire echoes through the deserted streets. Thank God they have Zelenskiy. If only we had such an admirable leader. He should be an inspiration to all those smug, overfed politicians who ooze on to our screens and waffle away.
I hope everyone on here is all right, and not too overwhelmed. These are emotionally febrile and desperate times. My thoughts are with you all as well.


How do you think Ukranians would react if Zelenskiy a) threw in the towel to save his own skin b) urged them to submit to Russia?
I agree that war is not a noble thing. It is the exploitation of the working and middle classes by those who have a vested interest in maintaining their hold on money and power. But courage is admirable. Resistance to opressors is admirable. Standing against tyranny, greed and despotism is both admirable and essential.

How would I know?
all I know so far is that he’s hiding somewhere having handed out tens of thousands of guns out to normal people, blocked his people from leaving the borders and told them all to fight in his name.

Sorry but Russia invading the UK could easily happen if this escalates further in Europe. Unlikely yes, absurd, no. There seems to be an element of 'this is Ukraines problem', but there is a reason the west is so concerned.

And please don't assume things, I am not drooling or find him hot. I admire a strong leader standing up for his country and his people against bullying aggression. I'm sure he has plenty of bad points, but right now, in battle fighting for survival he is admirable

It would never happen. If it got to that point we’d simply be nuked.
I was making a generalisation with the ‘hot’comment, I’m not having a personal argument with you. I can say what I like about the situation, this is literally a gossip forum.

 

[Carpediem69]

Can any of the people watching Flightradar tell me why the US Airforce plane has been circling around over Krakow for the last couple of hours? That’s the only military craft I can see on there at the moment. Thanks

That ‘paperclip’ type of movement has been happening with US planes quite a lot over the past 4 days - I am not a military expert but imagine it is possibly intelligence gathering - monitoring strange movements, photographic intel etc - I am probably wrong and someone else may know more

quote of the day so far

Ukraine President Zelensky refuses to be evacuated

“I need ammunition, not a ride‘

 

[ordinaryjelly]

I don't see staying, leading and fighting alongside your countrymen for your country as martyrdom. I find that quite a shocking opinion tbh. He is obviously doing something right as they haven't found him yet, I'd say he is being quite clever

They are literally fighting for their lives.

Would we not do the same? Or would be let Russia just take over the UK

The Ukrainians appear to doing what is 'best' in defense of a deep strike Russian attack/doctrine. Wiping out the weaker men who come behind the initial ferocious, strong attack. We can only assume that Putin expected Ukraine to fall on the initial 'thunder run' to Kyiv. (Ukrainian Tank General was the man who led soviet tanks a few decades ago, so maybe he knows very well how the attack plays out) Instead what we seem to be seeing is that the Ukrainian's (whether instructed to by the top dogs or simply because they don't have the weaponry/man power) have allowed the initial strong armoured columns to pass and are then destroying the log tail and trying to manage to keep them from the heart of the cities. The Russian's were foolish to not wipeout the Ukrainian air force in initial attacks. It seems that the Russian's have sent in approx 50k of men on the ground, that is around a third of the men they have available there. Holding Kyiv is of course the strategic centre of the conflict.

Yes that are fighting for their lives. But only history will determine whether that was the right thing to do. It may appear right, right now because as we can see here 'we' all love a fighter. We are watching something very interesting unfold. Only time will tell what was the right thing, not what the 'internet' onlookers from afar thought best.

 

[Ihatedoinglaundry]

I cannot tell you how much this thread is easing my anxiety about all of this. As selfish as it sounds places like Facebook are full to the brim of John from next door saying “We’re going down it’s as simple as that”.
I cannot even begin to imagine the heartache that the Ukrainian people are feeling, and also the frustration. It’s hard to believe we’re in 2022 when you wake up to news like that. The news is also so confusing because yesterday they reported 3 things on the BBC and then they posted something after saying “Ukraine denies that they’ve been in peace talks” …. Confusion and worry is taking over so many people!

 

[Mark81]

The Ukrainians appear to doing what is 'best' in defense of a deep strike Russian attack/doctrine. Wiping out the weak men who come behind the initial ferocious attack. We can only assume that Putin expected Ukraine to fall on the initial 'thunder run' to Kyiv. Instead what we seem to be seeing is that the Ukrainian's (whether instructed to by the top dogs or simply because they don't have the weaponry/man power) have allowed the initial strong armoured columns to pass and are then destroying the log tail and trying to manage to keep them from the heart of the cities. The Russian's were foolish to not wipeout the Ukrainian air force in initial attacks. It seems that the Russian's have sent in approx 50k of men on the ground, that is around a third of the men they have available there. Holding Kyiv is of course the strategic centre of the conflict.

Yes that are fighting for their lives. But only history will determine whether that was the right thing to do. It may appear right, right now because as we can see here 'we' all love a fighter. We are watching something very interesting unfold. Only time will tell what was the right thing, not what the 'internet' onlookers from afar thought best.

I get what you're saying but the only other option is to let Russia walk in.

 

[Notredamn]

I cannot tell you how much this thread is easing my anxiety about all of this. As selfish as it sounds places like Facebook are full to the brim of John from next door saying “We’re going down it’s as simple as that”.
I cannot even begin to imagine the heartache that the Ukrainian people are feeling, and also the frustration. It’s hard to believe we’re in 2022 when you wake up to news like that. The news is also so confusing because yesterday they reported 3 things on the BBC and then they posted something after saying “Ukraine denies that they’ve been in peace talks” …. Confusion and worry is taking over so many people!

Please don’t pay any attention to Facebook, it’s full of idiots at the best of times. Likewise don’t use the Daily Mail as your news source. Loads of people are scaremongering because they are either scared themselves, ill-informed or actually trolling cos it gives them power to know they’re frightening folk.

 

[under the ivy]

Awful news to wake up to about Kyiv and Melitopol

 

[Gym&Tonic]

Our disgrace of a government is refusing to waive visa applications for Ukrainians wanting to come to the U.K. There are actually Brits living there who won’t flee because they are worried their spouses won’t be allowed to come with them. Ireland has done so, so why can’t we we?

I actually hate this country I really do.

 

[Mark81]

Our disgrace of a government is refusing to waive visa applications for Ukrainians wanting to come to the U.K. There are actually Brits living there who won’t flee because they are worried their spouses won’t be allowed to come with them. Ireland has done so, so why can’t we we?

I actually hate this country I really do.

Completely agree. Made worse by the fact we are giving this impression of being supportive of Ukraine but all talk and no action. These aren't economic migrants, and as just pointed out by someone on BBC they all want to return when Russia is defeated.

 

[Autisteuse]

How would I know?
all I know so far is that he’s hiding somewhere having handed out tens of thousands of guns out to normal people, blocked his people from leaving the borders and told them all to fight in his name.


It would never happen. If it got to that point we’d simply be nuked.
I was making a generalisation with the ‘hot’comment, I’m not having a personal argument with you. I can say what I like about the situation, this is literally a gossip forum.

I think that we can speculate what would happen. Ukranians would be utterly betrayed, completely bereft, if he left them to it. They're a proud and courageous people who cherish their democracy and the fact that their nation freely allows freedom of thought, association and conscience. From what I've gleaned from news reportage, they are glad to take up arms against those who would turn their country into a soviet satellite state, dominated by the fascist in the Kremlin. In my opinion Zelenskiy is the rallying force, the one behind whom they all stand to protect their cherished freedoms. War has a horrible human cost, and the fact that Ukraine is militarily outgunned by Russian Federation forces unfortunately makes conscription necessary. I appreciate your point of view, but respectfully disagree re: Zelenskiy's motives.

 

[NorthernValkyrie]

Way to make friends and influence people...oops.

I think that we can speculate what would happen. Ukranians would be utterly betrayed, completely bereft, if he left them to it. They're a proud and courageous people who cherish their democracy and the fact that their nation freely allows freedom of thought, association and conscience. From what I've gleaned from news reportage, they are glad to take up arms against those who would turn their country into a soviet satellite state, dominated by the fascist in the Kremlin. In my opinion Zelenskiy is the rallying force, the one behind whom they all stand to protect their cherished freedoms. War has a horrible human cost, and the fact that Ukraine is militarily outgunned by Russian Federation forces unfortunately makes conscription necessary. I appreciate your point of view, but respectfully disagree re: Zelenskiy's motives.

If I could react to your post numerous times, I would. I'd written a response which I deleted because not only do I loathe bullies and megalomaniacs but I have blood ties to the land so am aware I'm a tad on the biased side (I do my best to be impartial but it doesn't always work). So thank you!

 

[NeverEnough]

They are right about Trump though. As much as he acted like an orange idiot he kept Putin in his place. Biden is useless

When Trump said that it really wasn’t a good idea for American companies to farm out their jobs and production to China and perhaps they should bring them back to America the only response I heard were hysterical screams of Rascism.

I look at the situation today. Major European countries scared to properly sanction an aggressive regime because they are worried about gas prices. A society so addicted to cheap consumerism that when a stay at home order was issued to stop the spread of a deadly disease panic buying on an unprecedented scale followed. Even though from day one supermarkets remained open and fully stocked. The apparent number one priority? ToIlet paper.

If this is the result of globalisation I’m having a hard time understanding how Trump was wrong. Yes the phrase Make America Great Again, or America First was crass. But crass does not equal wrong.

Countries like Russia and China are not Western and do not share Western ideals. They have no history of democracy, never went through a Renaissance, and do not, and never have had, freedom of press or expression. Hell even their writing systems and alphabets are different. It’s nice to think we should concentrate on what unites rather than divides, but it is foolish to forget that the differences are real.

China has always considered other cultures to be uncivilised barbarians. That’s why they built the Great Wall folks. And if I am wrong about this I am prepared to be educated as to which current Chinese policies point to a liberal internationalist outlook? It’s China First. Ironically. If you don’t like an America First policy you have a constitutional right to vote to replace it four years later, which is exactly what happened. If you don’t like a China First policy? Well Tiananmen Square.

And the reason Ukraine exists (for what short time it has left ), is because at the fall of the Soviet Union they and lots of other areas chose to break away from decades or centuries of Russian rule and declared independence, and Russia wants them back. They always have. Are Russia the only imperial power in history? Of course not. But I see no government policy nor desire for the UK to reclaim New Zealand, France to reclaim Quebec, Austria to reabsorb Hungary, Mexico to reclaim Texas, or Mongolia to once again send out their Keshiks to overrun China. Yet here we are with Ukraine.

 

[Just here to say]

I'm so happy there are so many fundraisers and charities who collect food, blankets, clothes for refugees. However I'm sad that it seems all up to common people of those countries who might also struggle but their kindness pushes them to donate. Where are the celebrities/ actors/ big companies (and I'm referring to Polish/ Slovakian etc countries who are actively taking in those refugees) donating their wealth?

 

[Nora Fenn]

Our disgrace of a government is refusing to waive visa applications for Ukrainians wanting to come to the U.K. There are actually Brits living there who won’t flee because they are worried their spouses won’t be allowed to come with them. Ireland has done so, so why can’t we we?

I actually hate this country I really do.

Isn’t it awful? Meanwhile Ireland has waived all visa requirements and flung it’s doors wide open for Ukrainian refugees. Proud to be Irish

 

[Notredamn]

I'm so happy there are so many fundraisers and charities who collect food, blankets, clothes for refugees. However I'm sad that it seems all up to common people of those countries who might also struggle but their kindness pushes them to donate. Where are the celebrities/ actors/ big companies (and I'm referring to Polish/ Slovakian etc countries who are actively taking in those refugees) donating their wealth?

Don’t forget that this war has already been going on for 8 years with thousands and thousands dead. Famous people didn’t care then so why would they now? Then again if you’re referring to celebrities from neighbouring countries, then I’m not sure how we would know what help they have offered.

 

[Sir John Elton]

Poor lad

This poor lad broke my heart last night , he’s so young and inexperienced , he had shot something like 16 rounds his whole life it was reported . And he was there alone.