UK Politics #5

[monga]

Jacob Rees Mogg admitted they introduced it hoping it would work in the Tories favour. They clearly thought the impact would be significant enough to go through the trouble.

I don’t see how it would when all you need to vote is ID , you need that for the basics nowadays is all I’m saying .Anyone that can’t leave their home gets a postal / proxy vote so it’s bull that those people lose their vote.

How to vote

An overview of voting in the UK, including voting in person, postal and proxy voting, and voting if you're abroad.

www.gov.uk

 

[Blueblue123]

I don’t see how it would when all you need to vote is ID , you need that for the basics nowadays is all I’m saying .Anyone that can’t leave their home gets a postal vote so it’s bull that those people lose their vote.

That was the problem from the start though. The Tories made it so only certain forms of ID would be accepted, ID primarily held by older people who aren't working class i.e their "loyal" voter base.

If it was broad forms of ID it would have no impact and they wouldn't have bothered.

They just didn't account for their expected voters to also not hold that ID, nor did they plan for just how many people are fed up with them.

 

[monga]

That was the problem from the start though. The Tories made it so only certain forms of ID would be accepted, ID primarily held by older people who aren't working class i.e their "loyal" voter base.

If it was broad forms of ID it would have no impact and they wouldn't have bothered.

They just didn't account for their expected voters to also not hold that ID, nor did they plan for just how many people are fed up with them.

What type of ID do you need in England? We only need photographic , we get free Electoral identity cards if we don’t have a current passport ,driving licence or any other form of photographic ID .

 

[L3moning]

What type of ID do you need in England? We only need photographic , we get free Electoral identity cards if we don’t have a current passport ,driving licence or any other form of photographic ID .

You could get free ID cards in England too, but it wasn't brilliantly advertised (which is not to say that it wasn't advertised at all, but it wasn't anything like as front and centre as it should have been).

 

[monga]

You could get free ID cards in England too, but it wasn't brilliantly advertised (which is not to say that it wasn't advertised at all, but it wasn't anything like as front and centre as it should have been).

Ours are well advertised, we’re tortured by political parties during election time lol, they’ll even make sure you get ID , I’d be surprised if there’s many without ID when you need it for practically everything now.

 

[Blueblue123]

What type of ID do you need in England? We only need photographic , we get free Electoral identity cards if we don’t have a current passport ,driving licence or any other form of photographic ID .

Offering free ID levels the playing field because it just leaves it up to people to apply. That's simple.

The Tories accepted things like pensioner bus passes but not under 30 travel cards, which is arguably the equivalent.

Otherwise you need things like a passport or full drivers license, which sound accessible enough but we shouldn't assume everyone finds it easy to get those as they all require payment.




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Accepted forms of photo ID

You can use any of the following accepted forms of photo ID when voting at a polling station.

International travel
Passport issued by the UK, any of the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, a British Overseas Territory, an EEA state or a Commonwealth country (including an Irish Passport Card)

Driving and Parking
Driving licence issued by the UK, any of the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, or an EEA state (this includes a provisional driving licence)
A Blue Badge

Local travel
Older Person’s Bus Pass funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Disabled Person’s Bus Pass funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Oyster 60+ Card funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Freedom Pass
Scottish National Entitlement Card
60 and Over Welsh Concessionary Travel Card
Disabled Person’s Welsh Concessionary Travel Card
Senior SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
Registered Blind SmartPass or Blind Person’s SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
War Disablement Smart
Pass issued in Northern Ireland60+
SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
Half Fare SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland

Proof of age
Identity card bearing the Proof of Age Standards Scheme hologram (a PASS card)
Other government issued documents
Biometric immigration document
Ministry of Defence Form 90 (Defence Identity Card)
National identity card issued by an EEA state
Electoral Identity Card issued in Northern Ireland
Voter Authority Certificate
Anonymous Elector's Document

You will only need to show one form of photo ID. It needs to be the original version and not a photo
copy.

 

[PillowsofFluff]

We went to vote at our local polling station, the older lady in front of us was being turned away as she hadn't taken ID... turns out she did have a passport but just didn't know she had to take it with her

Anyway, once they'd sorted her out, they gave us our ballot paper and were just going to let us vote without even looking at our ID. I had to remind them, erm, don't you need to see some ID? The lady said she was so distracted by the previous voter she'd forgotten

 

[monga]

Offering free ID levels the playing field because it just leaves it up to people to apply. That's simple.

The Tories accepted things like pensioner bus passes but not under 30 travel cards, which is arguably the equivalent.

Otherwise you need things like a passport or full drivers license, which sound accessible enough but we shouldn't assume everyone finds it easy to get those as they all require payment.




---------------------

Accepted forms of photo ID

You can use any of the following accepted forms of photo ID when voting at a polling station.

International travel
Passport issued by the UK, any of the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, a British Overseas Territory, an EEA state or a Commonwealth country (including an Irish Passport Card)

Driving and Parking
Driving licence issued by the UK, any of the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, or an EEA state (this includes a provisional driving licence)
A Blue Badge

Local travel
Older Person’s Bus Pass funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Disabled Person’s Bus Pass funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Oyster 60+ Card funded by the Government of the United Kingdom
Freedom Pass
Scottish National Entitlement Card
60 and Over Welsh Concessionary Travel Card
Disabled Person’s Welsh Concessionary Travel Card
Senior SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
Registered Blind SmartPass or Blind Person’s SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
War Disablement Smart
Pass issued in Northern Ireland60+
SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland
Half Fare SmartPass issued in Northern Ireland

Proof of age
Identity card bearing the Proof of Age Standards Scheme hologram (a PASS card)
Other government issued documents
Biometric immigration document
Ministry of Defence Form 90 (Defence Identity Card)
National identity card issued by an EEA state
Electoral Identity Card issued in Northern Ireland
Voter Authority Certificate
Anonymous Elector's Document

You will only need to show one form of photo ID. It needs to be the original version and not a photo
copy.

We need Photo ID to open bank accounts, employment etc ,so most young people have it here.

 

[Whatamadworld]

I know this isn't UK politics, but related due to international politics. Biden is looking so old and frail. I watched a clip of him meeting the Japanese officials, he seems to have aged so much even from 2 years back. I know he's 80, but it's mad to me how he is leader of the most powerful country in the world.

 

[Ndrangheta]

I know he's 80, but it's mad to me how he is leader of the most powerful country in the world.

Don't worry, China will be the most powerful country in the world soon. Although I think their leader is getting on a bit too!

 

[FlirtyThirty]

Sliding in here with a bit of a rage. What has Braverman got over Sunak? This is a clear sackable offence just get rid! Talk about spineless.

 

[Ndrangheta]

Sliding in here with a bit of a rage. What has Braverman got over Sunak? This is a clear sackable offence just get rid! Talk about spineless.

Come on, sacked for that? Or maybe I've been gaslit by Boris for too long.

 

[L3moning]

It's one of those things that Looks Bad, but in reality probably isn't much really.

 

[Moth]

It's one of those things that Looks Bad, but in reality probably isn't much really.

It probably isn't other than asking civil servants to sort out her personal affairs is potentially a breach of the ministerial code. It wouldn't be her first. Slightly strange that this story should emerge now when it happened last summer. I think what we're seeing is a bit of a reaction from Sunak supporters who feel that she is building up for a leadership challenge and are using their client media buddies to slap her down.

Sliding in here with a bit of a rage. What has Braverman got over Sunak? This is a clear sackable offence just get rid! Talk about spineless.

I mean obviously what she's got over Sunak is that she represents the rabid right-wing nutcase wing of the party. Sunak has her "inside the tent" to appeal to them and to give him cover for some of the more extreme policies. Getting rid of her would be a dangerous move.

 

[Blueblue123]

Come on, sacked for that? Or maybe I've been gaslit by Boris for too long.

Shows how low our expectations of MPs has got!

The point is that ministers need to adhere to higher standards, which makes sense. These are people setting our policies and representing us, it wouldn't be too much of an ask to expect them to have more integrity than your average worker.

But unfortunately, we've had two or so years of MPs holding on to their position despite committing all sorts of wrongs and trying to sweep it under the carpet or as you say, gaslight us into thinking it's not a big deal, so it's understandable if people have forgotten what the standards should be.

I think 5 or so years ago, Braverman probably would have stepped down quietly without this drawn out news cycle, which waters down what I agree, is a relatively low level offence.

 

[Happy Lady]

Can I just have a rant about Starmer's speech just now about the NHS. He clearly hasn't got a scoobie about the ins and outs. He says what he wants to achieve but no idea how he'll do it.

How Starmer, how?

Everyone would be delighted for his ideas to come to fruition, but HOW will he do it?

 

[Yel]

All parties are just ridiculous about the NHS. Both saying they'll fix it and solve everything. But never how they'll do it

It's a massively outdated model and what's really killing it is the refusal to modernise it to match other European models that achieve far better results.

People always talking about how much better paid people are in Australia without saying that system is based on insurance where people are paying more for it. And people in the UK flat out refuse this model.

Can't have your cake and eat it. They're all lying about how they'll magically fix it. It's been underfunded for decades while people have more and more expectations.

Will any grownups enter the conversation to be honest?

 

[Blueblue123]

I went to a conference recently and the topic wasn't the NHS but government policy in general. A speaker said the reason a lot of ideas seem unworkable is because they're only really meant to last until the next election, which seems especially true for anything that will cause a significant societal shift.

Things like immigration or tax produce more immediate results so it's easier to suggest policies that people can get on board with. Changes to the NHS, uni fees, housing... a little harder. So we either get promises that miss the mark, or policies which seem too 'pie in the sky' because they don't seem possible in the five-year timespan a government is guaranteed.

Then you've got the MPs who can't commit to a solution other than a generic 'we'll fix it'.

 

[L3moning]

All parties are just ridiculous about the NHS. Both saying they'll fix it and solve everything. But never how they'll do it

It's a massively outdated model and what's really killing it is the refusal to modernise it to match other European models that achieve far better results.

People always talking about how much better paid people are in Australia without saying that system is based on insurance where people are paying more for it. And people in the UK flat out refuse this model.

Can't have your cake and eat it. They're all lying about how they'll magically fix it. It's been underfunded for decades while people have more and more expectations.

Will any grownups enter the conversation to be honest?

The problem is that any notion of paying for healthcare at the point of use is treated as if it would become the US system overnight because of either people not getting that other systems exist or not trusting the government.

Now, I personally would be heavily against charging people at all, because it would lead to an amount of excess deaths (probably only in the short term, though), but you can probably design a system which mitigates the worst of it (obvious idea would be making it free or more subsidised for under 18s, over 60s, those who are pregnant or have chronic illnesses, etc).

My suspicion is that we will end up with some kind of subsidised system where stuff has a fixed fee, rather than an insurance based model.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

The problem is that any notion of paying for healthcare at the point of use is treated as if it would become the US system overnight because of either people not getting that other systems exist or not trusting the government.

Now, I personally would be heavily against charging people at all, because it would lead to an amount of excess deaths (probably only in the short term, though), but you can probably design a system which mitigates the worst of it (obvious idea would be making it free or more subsidised for under 18s, over 60s, those who are pregnant or have chronic illnesses, etc).

My suspicion is that we will end up with some kind of subsidised system where stuff has a fixed fee, rather than an insurance based model.

A bit like having NHS treatment at the dentist.

Personally I have been using a two tier medical system for a while now because GP services have been so bad. I have been using private GP's and apps for minor things and my NHS GP for the bigger things.