To COVID vaccine, or not to vaccine?

[Carmen 6]

B.J's father is of the opinion we should reduce the U.K. population, where the birth rate is declining rapidly.
I don't think it's the numbers that are the problem, more the need for control of us 'little people.'

 

[Harpyharpyunder]

My point is, just because you question, and have scepticism, does not automatically render you a 'conspiracy theorist'.
In 1955, a faulty polio vaccine caused 40,000 cases of child polio and 10 deaths.
In the early 1960's, thousands of women gave birth to terribly deformed babies, due to Thalidomide.
We have no vaccine for the common cold, bird flu, swine flu etc. yet conveniently, within a few months, a vaccine for covid 19 is developed.
Trusting scientists is all very well, but the Barrington Declaration was signed by 8,000 scientists with opposing views.
The public has been subjected to months of relentless fear porn by a media that should have presented both sides, and bizarre government restrictions, with the result that a vast number of people will now sign up for anything that apparently restores their freedoms.

The Barrington Declaration had been heavily criticised by multiple medical bodies for being unethical and dangerous. We know for a fact that you can get COVID multiple times, and yet the declaration completely ignores that?

I am not ‘singing up for anything that restores freedom’ imo that is an incredibly dangerous rhetoric. I am singing up for something that has been developed by the worlds best doctors, with endless amounts of funding.
There is a vaccine for swine flu actually, only a few hundred people died of bird flu and it is no longer a risk to public health, and the common cold does not kill or cause serious long standing issues.

In 1955 they also didn’t know that smoking caused cancer, so I’m not going to base my current medical decisions on something that happened 70 years ago.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I am only concerned as I have yet to finish my family. If I had then I would get it, but as I plan to possibly have one more baby I have concerned on it’s effect on unborn babies and fertility.

If it impacts my ability to go to places then I will have to give a thought on my family situation. They will not make it mandatory in the UK and perhaps I will have to wait to go abroad until I’ve had my last baby. But I would rather that than put my baby in danger.

 

[jazyblu]

B.J's father is of the opinion we should reduce the U.K. population, where the birth rate is declining rapidly.
I don't think it's the numbers that are the problem, more the need for control of us 'little people.'View attachment 324371

Not really sure how this is relevant to the covid vaccine. Stanley Johnston has nothing to do with the covid response in the UK, nor is he in government.
He has extremely conservative views and supports pretty strong anti-immigration policy.
As far as I'm aware he has never said anything that feeds into the 'vaccine to control population' conspiracy.

 

[Carmen 6]

The Barrington Declaration had been heavily criticised by multiple medical bodies for being unethical and dangerous. We know for a fact that you can get COVID multiple times, and yet the declaration completely ignores that?

I am not ‘singing up for anything that restores freedom’ imo that is an incredibly dangerous rhetoric. I am singing up for something that has been developed by the worlds best doctors, with endless amounts of funding.
There is a vaccine for swine flu actually, only a few hundred people died of bird flu and it is no longer a risk to public health, and the common cold does not kill or cause serious long standing issues.

In 1955 they also didn’t know that smoking caused cancer, so I’m not going to base my current medical decisions on something that happened 70 years ago.

Absolutely your decision, what you allow into your body.
We all have the same right.

 

[Harpyharpyunder]

B.J's father is of the opinion we should reduce the U.K. population, where the birth rate is declining rapidly.
I don't think it's the numbers that are the problem, more the need for control of us 'little people.'View attachment 324371

Viral meme misrepresents Stanley Johnson's recently republished book 'The Marburg Virus'

A meme shared thousands of times claims a recently republished novel by UK PM Boris Johson’s father, Stanley Johnson, is about “a government releasing a deadly virus into the population as cover for population control through a forced vaccine”. The claims are misleading; the book actually...

factcheck.afp.com

He’s an environmentalist, many environmentalists are concerned about the population. How do you think hospitals will cope if the vaccine actually kills???? Especially if those who take the vaccine are health care professionals we’d be left with no doctors!!!
Also the Mirror is not a credible source, it’s a sensationalist, tabloid with a purpose of entertaining rather than educating.

 

[Carmen 6]

Viral meme misrepresents Stanley Johnson's recently republished book 'The Marburg Virus'

A meme shared thousands of times claims a recently republished novel by UK PM Boris Johson’s father, Stanley Johnson, is about “a government releasing a deadly virus into the population as cover for population control through a forced vaccine”. The claims are misleading; the book actually...

factcheck.afp.com

He’s an environmentalist, many environmentalists are concerned about the population. How do you think hospitals will cope if the vaccine actually kills???? Especially if those who take the vaccine are health care professionals we’d be left with no doctors!!!
Also the Mirror is not a credible source, it’s a sensationalist, tabloid with a purpose of entertaining rather than educating.

I simply screenshot the Mirror.
The experiment is an American one originally, and there are dozens of reports. It has nothing to do with the Mirror as such.
It was actually refered to by David Attenborough on one of his series.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

May I ask why the results of this poll, are available for everyone to see? I'm not being funny, but in a way this is adding to the pressure of whether or not people want to be vaccinated. I wonder if any Goverment officials ever read Tattle? Or should I go and have a tin hat fitted?

 

[Harpyharpyunder]

I simply screenshot the Mirror.
The experiment is an American one originally, and there are dozens of reports. It has nothing to do with the Mirror as such.
It was actually refered to by David Attenborough on one of his series.

What ‘experiment’ exactly are you referring to?
Erm yeah screenshotting is using something as a source.
Any response to my point on what we’d do if the vaccine was actually just a huge group suicide ploy by the worlds doctors? Or does that point not fit into your anti-vax narrative?

 

[Platypusfattypus]

May I ask why the results of this poll, are available for everyone to see? I'm not being funny, but in a way this is adding to the pressure of whether or not people want to be vaccinated. I wonder if any Goverment officials ever read Tattle? Or should I go and have a tin hat fitted?

It's the norm on this forum for the poll results to be public otherwise what's the point of having a poll? People don't have to vote, no one can see how you have voted.

 

[JLXRD]

It's the norm on this forum for the poll results to be public otherwise what's the point of having a poll? People don't have to vote, no one can see how you have voted.

On this one platy, if you click on the poll result you can see who has voted for what. Other polls are normally anonymous.

It’s an online forum where we are anonymous though anyway so...dunno what people are worried about?

 

[Platypusfattypus]

On this one platy, if you click on the poll result you can see who has voted for what. Other polls are normally anonymous.

It’s an online forum where we are anonymous though anyway so...dunno what people are worried about?

Ah I didn't realise, apologies. Though my point about you don't have to vote if you don't want to.

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I wouldn’t yet, it worries me that this vaccine is potentially being rushed through and touted as the end to this pandemic, because i don’t feel there’s been enough research into the side effects just yet because of how new it is. That said, I can completely understand why people want to have the vaccine. I wouldn’t care about having it to travel either should push come to shove, I’d just want to know what it could do to my body first .

 

[Makaraka]

I will 100% take the vaccine.
My husband works in the UAE and has already been told that he will have to have the vaccine in order to continue to work over there as and when it’s available.
If I chose not too then it would effectively I assume put his job at risk I assume?

 

[Clickbait]

The reason this country has gone to tit is down to the governments handling of the outbreak.
They were late off the mark, they didn’t enforce any kind of lockdown rules, they haven’t utilised the nightingales and let’s not even divulge in the lies, U-turns and hypocrisy...
The flu vaccine is only offered to the elderly and vulnerable so makes sense why covid would be the same.

I mean we’re in lockdown at the moment but not everyone is following it. I think from posts you’ve made that you’re not? I just don’t see how it can be enforceable - the police are spread so thinly how can they be tracking people breaking the rules unless they’re doing so in a really obvious way.

The Nightingale in London wasn’t utilised because it didn’t need to be thankfully.

The flu vaccine is also offered to health, social care and public sector workers to try and reduce spread and sickness over Winter.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

I hear what you are saying, but when you create a new thread you are given the option of starting a poll. You can choose whether you want the names of the people who voted, to be visable.
I voted in this poll, because it is an important issue that effects everyone.

 

[WilmaHun]

Not everybody who is refusing the vaccine is a conspiracy theorist. That’s a cheap shot to be honest.
The reason this country has gone to tit is down to the governments handling of the outbreak.
They were late off the mark, they didn’t enforce any kind of lockdown rules, they haven’t utilised the nightingales and let’s not even divulge in the lies, U-turns and hypocrisy...

Just on your point about the Nightingales - surely we should be thankful that they weren't needed? They were built as a support system should the NHS become overloaded, almost like an overflow. Surely we should be grateful that the virus didn't hospitalise so much of our population that overflow hospitals were needed? Or have I misunderstood their purpose....

 

[Platypusfattypus]

I hear what you are saying, but when you create a new thread you are given the option of starting a poll. You can choose whether you want the names of the people who voted, to be visable.
I voted in this poll, because it is an important issue that effects everyone.

Yes as I said above I didn't realise that names were public and I apologised for that but it's an anonymous forum and whilst it is an important subject it's still a choice as to whether or not you vote. If you feel uncomfortable with it then you can remove your vote

Just on your point about the Nightingales - surely we should be thankful that they weren't needed? They were built as a support system should the NHS become overloaded, almost like an overflow. Surely we should be grateful that the virus didn't hospitalise so much of our population that overflow hospitals were needed? Or have I misunderstood their purpose....

Also Prof Devi Sridhar made a brilliant point that we initially approached it as a flu like pandemic not a sars one. The Nightingales were not equipped to deal with the multinsystemic attack on the body that Covid has

 

[Jackfruit]

I mean we’re in lockdown at the moment but not everyone is following it. I think from posts you’ve made that you’re not? I just don’t see how it can be enforceable - the police are spread so thinly how can they be tracking people breaking the rules unless they’re doing so in a really obvious way.

The Nightingale in London wasn’t utilised because it didn’t need to be thankfully.

The flu vaccine is also offered to health, social care and public sector workers to try and reduce spread and sickness over Winter.

I’m not following the lockdown measures to the letter no. I refuse to be told when I can see my family. I lost my grandad this year and I resent the fact I wasn’t able to spend the time with him I should have. I’m not willing to waste any more time when it comes to family.
The nightingale hospitals weren’t utilised because they quickly realised they don’t have the staff to man them. They could have been used for covid patients which would have allowed 1000s of other lives to be saved but instead so many have died from misdiagnosis, lack of treatment and fear of getting covid.
The government scared people to the point of not accessing urgent care and so people have been dying at home from heart attacks and strokes etc.
I do agree that people who work with vulnerable, at risk patients should receive the vaccine.

 

[Clickbait]

@Jackfruit sorry if this seems like it’s a personal attack - it isn’t but I don’t think you can complain about hypocrisy and lockdown not being enforced when you have decided not to follow it.

It would be interesting to understand your professional background or sources of information re: Nightingale decision making. My insight is based on working in Covid response for the NHS and I can say that there were staff mobilised to work in Nightingale. The issues would have come from lack of equipment and ambulance transfers.

If you or a family member was ill would you want them to be treated in isolation for one condition (Covid) in a makeshift hospital or would you want them to be in a real hospital with access to diagnostic equipment and/or the ability to access medically-directed interventions? We know that in some cases Covid triggered heart attacks and organ failure which were unlikely to be dealt with in Nightingales unless more equipment was relocated from hospitals which would limit the number of people being treated at them for non-Covid conditions.

Likewise Nightingale’s were not big enough to take all Covid patients to make existing estates ‘green’ and therefore fully accessible to people who were Covid free to have elective care, routine appointments etc. Plus there would be people turning up in A&E or for these appointments who would be tested and found to have Covid which would then limit the amount of estate that could be used again.

There is a lot in the press about how many hospitals have empty beds but that is because there needs to be enough clear space to stop Covid spreading, particularly in some older hospitals with poor ventilation.

I absolutely agree that lessons can be learned from the response and this will happen - I don’t believe anyone in the NHS believes everything that has gone perfectly, but this was the first global pandemic that has been faced in its history.

More needs to be done to restore services but Winter is always a pressure point for services without Covid so I think it will be difficult to ramp things up more significantly.