The Royal Family #31

[Boring Monday]

I think the general rule of Royal PR thumb is when you want some good headlines, wheel out the cute kiddies.
if you can wrangle the youngest into 100+ year old fancy dress, so much the better.

 

[Bride of Lupine]

I agree the Queen should have begun the scaling-down process herself and not have left everything to Charles. Especially since the fact that the family is now way to big is down to her own personal decision to have two more kids when she already had an heir and someone who would have turned out to be the best Spare perhaps ever, the wonderful Princess Anne. She was ill-advised to have more children in her position in that day & age. Especially since her own parents had kept it to two even in the previous generation, although I expect there would have been considerable pressure on them to ‘try again for a male heir’. The optics of HMTQ going for more kids, only for them and their subsequent families, to be a further unnecessary drain on the country were never great. Even before Andrew turned out as he did.

I’m sure the family are aware of these issues. All the couples, except lately W&C and the Tindalls (but they aren’t working royals anyway so it isn’t the same for them), have only had two each. And IIRC Harry had a non-too-subtle dig at W&C going for a third.

The problem certainly isn’t of Charles’s making so it’s unfair that it’s him who now has to deal with the consequences of his mother’s bad decisions.

 

[Bride of Lupine]

True but I think the big problem for G,C&L will be the internet. Sure it was around 15+ years ago when Harry and Wills were out doing god knows what in clubs but even then you weren’t constantly connected, 4G wasn’t what it is today and any photos would surface after the event.

I think the issue is more people constantly uploading pics in real time or tweeting out like “Prince George is in the X club right now”. It’s going to be a headache that’s for sure. Add in the added level of scrutiny that comes with social media and I don’t envy them at all, especially Charlotte who we all know will be picked apart on everything from her hair to her clothes, but of course no one will give a damn on what her brothers look like.

Sorry to double post but on the topic of Charlotte I’ll be interested to see how the palace game works for her.

She will be the royal family’s darling, just like her mother, who will be protected from everything…until George marries and there’s a future Queen in town. If we are to believe any of what Harry says, and I certainly think there’s truth in the idea that they protect the top dogs by throwing the others under a bus, then chances are Charlotte will be the one to suffer to protect her brother. I say Charlotte over Louis because the press love a woman V woman fight over a man V man so even if George married Charlottes best friend, they’ll still be pitted against each other and only one will get the elusive palace protection.

I hope I’m wrong though and that Wills and Kate manage to change things for the sake of their kids, I do think they seem to genuinely put their kids before anything else, including the monarchy, which Charles never quite managed.

This is so interesting and insightful. I think, sadly, what you predict will turn out to be right.

 

[LoopyLou47]

She was ill-advised to have more children in her position in that day & age. Especially since her own parents had kept it to two even in the previous generation, although I expect there would have been considerable pressure on them to ‘try again for a male heir’. The optics of HMTQ going for more kids, only for them and their subsequent families, to be a further unnecessary drain on the country were never great. Even before Andrew turned out as he did.

I dont think the Royals ( or Royalists) care about that. They think they should be entitled to do whatever they like, and just tell the lower orders not to have children, as Prince Philip did, and William does, ignoring the real issues of overconsumption, which would involve them actually doing something personally to their detriment. There are still people desperate for Kate to be pregnant again, even though we will be supporting those kids for the rest of their lives when they are no longer cute.

I disagree they put their children first, and I'm surprised as I genuinely thought they would. They have been out front and centre a lot in recent months and imo unnecessarily so. They could leave them home for most of these events. What happened to the annual pic and no more? I really thought Kate wouldn't do it. They're open to all comments and speculation now as they grow. Edward and Sophie, tho obviously lower profile, have done well and their children are outside of the most vulnerable years now. I get K&W want to be with them at family events but my priority would be shielding them as much as possible from it all and to hell with any criticism. Lots of uncomfortable expressions from George and also Charlotte.

William is a Windsor to his bones, so he knows that being a member of the RF is what is going to benefit his kids more than anything. If them being wheeled out for the press keeps the show on the road and the press onside, that's what he will do. That goes for throwing the younger ones to the press to protect George as well. I don't doubt Charles loves both boys, but he did the same. Because he knew that without the Royals they don't have anything. For Harry that wasn't enough, but if he'd put up and shut up he would have been living the life of Riley.

 

[Bride of Lupine]

I dont think the Royals ( or Royalists) care about that. They think they should be entitled to do whatever they like, and just tell the lower orders not to have children, as Prince Philip did, and William does, ignoring the real issues of overconsumption, which would involve them actually doing something personally to their detriment. There are still people desperate for Kate to be pregnant again, even though we will be supporting those kids for the rest of their lives when they are no longer cute.


William is a Windsor to his bones, so he knows that being a member of the RF is what is going to benefit his kids more than anything. If them being wheeled out for the press keeps the show on the road and the press onside, that's what he will do. That goes for throwing the younger ones to the press to protect George as well. I don't doubt Charles loves both boys, but he did the same. Because he knew that without the Royals they don't have anything. For Harry that wasn't enough, but if he'd put up and shut up he would have been living the life of Riley.

It’s probably for the best then that Charles didn’t want anything more than the bare minimum to do with Diana or we’d by paying for several more unnecessary branches by now!

Did PP actually say that? Not that I’m surprised; that man was bloody awful. I don’t miss either of them actually. They were always more than ready to see other people’s mistakes but disown their own. I think Charles has the makings of a better monarch but he probably won’t have time to achieve much in his reign.

 

[LoopyLou47]

Did PP actually say that? Not that I’m surprised; that man was bloody awful

He famously said that he would like to be reincarnated as a virus that wiped out half the human race. I'm willing to bet not the half him or his family belong to!

 

[Multi-21]

Bit hypocritical given he had four kids himself!

 

[Bride of Lupine]

Bit hypocritical given he had four kids himself!

At least…..

 

[Blurp]

At least…..

There's said to be one in Australia a bit older than Andrew. Andrew was supposed to be the reboot baby as their marriage went through a very sticky patch in the late 50s. Philip was raging about being cut out of everything by the sideboard Household so took himself off on a solo tour which apparently was a bit of boys on tour; one of his companions, secretary, equerry, whatever had to resign and rush home to a divorce due to the tour antics.

Anyway, Andrew appeared not long after that and people in the Royal Household referred to him as "the love child", whether because of an affair or their making up. I've heard it said that Edward was conceived as a companion for Andrew. Maybe all this feeds into the spoiling to ruination of Andrew or to a determination not to miss out on the parts of motherhood that she'd missed because her father died young (though she dumped her children on her parents before that while she went off to Malta with Philip anyway).

 

[Spid]

I think people underestimate the security that the royals will have around them in clubs, and also the security in the clubs themselves.

For example Soho House has a no phone’s policy, and if you take photos of you lose your membership. You have to sign in yourself and any guests upon arrival so they know who has been there. All the private members clubs are the same.

They’re hardly going to be going to Spoons on a Friday night

Plenty of people trying to be slyly on the phone in Soho House, I don't think it's strictly enforced.

Harry went on plenty of nights out in what used to be Liquid (I think?) in Windsor and house gigs whilst seeing Chelsy in Leeds.

I'd bet a lot for their nights out are in members clubs where they do whatever, and whoever, they like but I'm sure they do their fair share of normal nights out whilst at uni

 

[CuriousCat92]

Plenty of people trying to be slyly on the phone in Soho House, I don't think it's strictly enforced.

Harry went on plenty of nights out in what used to be Liquid (I think?) in Windsor and house gigs whilst seeing Chelsy in Leeds.

I'd bet a lot for their nights out are in members clubs where they do whatever, and whoever, they like but I'm sure they do their fair share of normal nights out whilst at uni

Or would like to. At any rate. Didn’t Harry have a secret social media account? Possible facebook? It had to be got rid of when it was widely known. Something else that has to be contended with for their parents.

 

[Spid]

Or would like to. At any rate. Didn’t Harry have a secret social media account? Possible facebook? It had to be got rid of when it was widely known. Something else that has to be contended with for their parents.

Yeah I remember this being reported.

 

[travelbug20]

I agree the Queen should have begun the scaling-down process herself and not have left everything to Charles. Especially since the fact that the family is now way to big is down to her own personal decision to have two more kids when she already had an heir and someone who would have turned out to be the best Spare perhaps ever, the wonderful Princess Anne. She was ill-advised to have more children in her position in that day & age. Especially since her own parents had kept it to two even in the previous generation, although I expect there would have been considerable pressure on them to ‘try again for a male heir’. The optics of HMTQ going for more kids, only for them and their subsequent families, to be a further unnecessary drain on the country were never great. Even before Andrew turned out as he did.

I’m sure the family are aware of these issues. All the couples, except lately W&C and the Tindalls (but they aren’t working royals anyway so it isn’t the same for them), have only had two each. And IIRC Harry had a non-too-subtle dig at W&C going for a third.

The problem certainly isn’t of Charles’s making so it’s unfair that it’s him who now has to deal with the consequences of his mother’s bad decisions.

I think the sad truth is that HMQ left a lot for Charles to clean up so to speak. The counsellors of state, never properly dealing with Andrew, the issues of the ridiculously large family, the elderly cousins with titles to name just a few.

The problem is that you can't police how many kids the wider members of the family has. How much say can they really have over Zara's family when she receives no state money etc?

I do also think there's a lot to be said for the heir having 3 kids over 2. It removes that heir and spare mentality and comparison and instead gives you 2 spares who can help each other forge a path that isn't destined for the throne. It would be interesting had there been another sibling to William if Harry would have felt so troubled as the spare. As it was, there was no one who really understood his position whereas at least Charlotte and Louis will have each other.

 

[Boring Monday]

I think the sad truth is that HMQ left a lot for Charles to clean up so to speak. The counsellors of state, never properly dealing with Andrew, the issues of the ridiculously large family, the elderly cousins with titles to name just a few.

The problem is that you can't police how many kids the wider members of the family has. How much say can they really have over Zara's family when she receives no state money etc?

I do also think there's a lot to be said for the heir having 3 kids over 2. It removes that heir and spare mentality and comparison and instead gives you 2 spares who can help each other forge a path that isn't destined for the throne. It would be interesting had there been another sibling to William if Harry would have felt so troubled as the spare. As it was, there was no one who really understood his position whereas at least Charlotte and Louis will have each other.

To be fair, Charles had Anne as spare before Andrew appeared and Edward came not too long after … and given the age gap, Andrew’s spareness was possibly completely unnecessary.
Didn’t stop him embracing the Spareness Though.

I really dont think the cousins with titles are that much of a problem, really.
removing titles from people who have worked for The Crown for half a century or more could be seen as a PR minefield … and the fact the titles stop with them. … or the royal designation does at any rate, and they just return to the general pool means that the problem sorts itself out anyway.

 

[travelbug20]

To be fair, Charles had Anne as spare before Andrew appeared and Edward came not too long after … and given the age gap, Andrew’s spareness was possibly completely unnecessary.
Didn’t stop him embracing the Spareness Though.

I really dont think the cousins with titles are that much of a problem, really.
removing titles from people who have worked for The Crown for half a century or more could be seen as a PR minefield … and the fact the titles stop with them. … or the royal designation does at any rate, and they just return to the general pool means that the problem sorts itself out anyway.

True, I do think, and there's no nice way to say this, that the whole slimmed down monarchy will be done by mother nature anyway over the next 10 years or so, as we sadly lose the elderly cousins too. I suppose all Charles can do is future proof things by making only the heirs children prince and princess, ensuring dukedoms are for life and not passed down to children etc, that way by the time George would be older the only people left with titles would be his parents and siblings, any children he has and a couple of cousins of his Dad's who by the time they're in their 60's probably won't be seen of much anyway.

 

[LoopyLou47]

True, I do think, and there's no nice way to say this, that the whole slimmed down monarchy will be done by mother nature anyway over the next 10 years or so, as we sadly lose the elderly cousins too. I suppose all Charles can do is future proof things by making only the heirs children prince and princess, ensuring dukedoms are for life and not passed down to children etc, that way by the time George would be older the only people left with titles would be his parents and siblings, any children he has and a couple of cousins of his Dad's who by the time they're in their 60's probably won't be seen of much anyway.

Yes I think it's a pointless aggro removing titles from 80 year olds. They will be gone soon enough, but moving forward, the whole ' no titles for Harry's children' should have been done way before Harry had children, or even married, by The Queen. Charlotte and Louis children shouldn't have titles, grandchildren of a Monarch or not.

At least…..

Well there is the rumour that Andrew isn't hus so minus one and add one. The Royal tour was depicted in The Crown, and Mike someone, did have to come back when his wife filed for divorce. If anyone thinks the Royals were not mired in scandal for centuries, they haven't been paying attention. There were numerous rumours around The Queen and Philips marriage.

 

[Bride of Lupine]

There's said to be one in Australia a bit older than Andrew. Andrew was supposed to be the reboot baby as their marriage went through a very sticky patch in the late 50s. Philip was raging about being cut out of everything by the sideboard Household so took himself off on a solo tour which apparently was a bit of boys on tour; one of his companions, secretary, equerry, whatever had to resign and rush home to a divorce due to the tour antics.

Anyway, Andrew appeared not long after that and people in the Royal Household referred to him as "the love child", whether because of an affair or their making up. I've heard it said that Edward was conceived as a companion for Andrew. Maybe all this feeds into the spoiling to ruination of Andrew or to a determination not to miss out on the parts of motherhood that she'd missed because her father died young (though she dumped her children on her parents before that while she went off to Malta with Philip anyway).

There’s a strong rumor of one in North Wales too, conceived when PP was stationed on the Lleyn Peninsula for a while during the war (i.e. before he was married).

 

[thegirlscout]

The problem with Prince Andrew is he is such an arrogant, entitled prick that he still doesn't understand that his position in TRF has changed forever.
Anyone else would have just stayed away or been very low key but Andrew still thinks he's done nothing wrong so will never do the decent thing. He takes every tiny opportunity to put himself back in the public eye.

He kinda needs someone to throw an egg at him or a water balloon.

 

[elliebee27]

I think the sad truth is that HMQ left a lot for Charles to clean up so to speak. The counsellors of state, never properly dealing with Andrew, the issues of the ridiculously large family, the elderly cousins with titles to name just a few.

The problem is that you can't police how many kids the wider members of the family has. How much say can they really have over Zara's family when she receives no state money etc?

I do also think there's a lot to be said for the heir having 3 kids over 2. It removes that heir and spare mentality and comparison and instead gives you 2 spares who can help each other forge a path that isn't destined for the throne. It would be interesting had there been another sibling to William if Harry would have felt so troubled as the spare. As it was, there was no one who really understood his position whereas at least Charlotte and Louis will have each other.

I think that was always her idea - make Charles deal with it. Same with the upkeep and repairs of the residences she never properly looked after as their custodian.

 

[Tangent Tiger]

I think that was always her idea - make Charles deal with it. Same with the upkeep and repairs of the residences she never properly looked after as their custodian.

I've thought it must be exhausting for him to take over in his 70s. He doesn't seem quite as sprightly as his mother, either.