The Royal Family #31

[Mark81]

I can't wait for this on Thursday night on channel 4. This song has been released and I think sounds like it has real potential, and the trailer running on channel 4 looks good

Because imo it should only be direct heirs and no one else, like the European Royals have done. So if you aren't directly in line, you are in the family, but not working Royals. Charlotte and Louis will only he close enough to the Throne until George has children then, as adults they will be chucked on the scrapheap.

I think we should scrap all old aristocracy titles (Duke and duchess of this or that) and use something European monarchies have, and that's direct heirs being 'crown prince or princess'. Remaining working royals can be prince or princess. All non working royals get nothing. Or if that doesn't work let all those who are entitled, and want them, be prince and princess bur by putting a hierarchy level above that (crown prince/princess) it devalues prince and princess a bit and helps distinguish the ones that really matter (the direct heirs)

I mean you still get romanov descendents calling themselves princess, but it means nothing in reality.

 

[L3moning]

I think we should scrap all old aristocracy titles (Duke and duchess of this or that) and use something European monarchies have, and that's direct heirs being 'crown prince or princess'. Remaining working royals can be prince or princess. All non working royals get nothing. Or if that doesn't work let all those who are entitled, and want them, be prince and princess bur by putting a hierarchy level above that (crown prince/princess) it devalues prince and princess a bit and helps distinguish the ones that really matter (the direct heirs)

I mean you still get romanov descendents calling themselves princess, but it means nothing in reality.

I have a suspicion it'll probably end up like that, although probably not until George is King, at least.

 

[LoopyLou47]

I have a suspicion it'll probably end up like that, although probably not until George is King, at least.

How ridiculous if it takes that long. He's 8, and the European Royals have been doing it for years. Also, I'm not sure the Monarchy will survive long past George. It may be a last throw of the dice.

 

[coconochanel]

Sorry if I'm late but what did you all think of King Charles Christmas speech?

 

[Mark81]

How ridiculous if it takes that long. He's 8, and the European Royals have been doing it for years. Also, I'm not sure the Monarchy will survive long past George. It may be a last throw of the dice.

Yeah I agree, I think it needs to be done asap, with William at the latest. It will help solve the Sussex and Andrew problem. Plus so many titles have a history of bad associations (especially Duke of york). Let Andrew, his daughters, Harry and meghan have their prince and princess titles. But 'promote' those in direct line and working royals to help devalue prince/princess a bit.

As for the speech, being at Windsor was a good move, especially if you're going to talk about the problems th country is facing (doing that in a palace isn't a great look). But it was bordering on too religious for my liking, and also had a political undertone which didn't bother me but I can imagine wouldn't go unnoticed in some circles

 

[Andouilette]

I am not sure where the idea comes from that other monarchies don't use duke and duchess titles. They do, most more than we do.

 

[Honeystar]

Smartphones with cameras have been common throughout the 2010's but how many candid night out pics did we ever see of Will, Harry and the cousins? Harry was a party boy and frequently out with Chelsy but we never got pics. The only one I remember is the Harry pic from Vegas

True but I think the big problem for G,C&L will be the internet. Sure it was around 15+ years ago when Harry and Wills were out doing god knows what in clubs but even then you weren’t constantly connected, 4G wasn’t what it is today and any photos would surface after the event.

I think the issue is more people constantly uploading pics in real time or tweeting out like “Prince George is in the X club right now”. It’s going to be a headache that’s for sure. Add in the added level of scrutiny that comes with social media and I don’t envy them at all, especially Charlotte who we all know will be picked apart on everything from her hair to her clothes, but of course no one will give a damn on what her brothers look like.

Sorry to double post but on the topic of Charlotte I’ll be interested to see how the palace game works for her.

She will be the royal family’s darling, just like her mother, who will be protected from everything…until George marries and there’s a future Queen in town. If we are to believe any of what Harry says, and I certainly think there’s truth in the idea that they protect the top dogs by throwing the others under a bus, then chances are Charlotte will be the one to suffer to protect her brother. I say Charlotte over Louis because the press love a woman V woman fight over a man V man so even if George married Charlottes best friend, they’ll still be pitted against each other and only one will get the elusive palace protection.

I hope I’m wrong though and that Wills and Kate manage to change things for the sake of their kids, I do think they seem to genuinely put their kids before anything else, including the monarchy, which Charles never quite managed.

 

[Em_gardener]

True but I think the big problem for G,C&L will be the internet. Sure it was around 15+ years ago when Harry and Wills were out doing god knows what in clubs but even then you weren’t constantly connected, 4G wasn’t what it is today and any photos would surface after the event.

I think the issue is more people constantly uploading pics in real time or tweeting out like “Prince George is in the X club right now”. It’s going to be a headache that’s for sure. Add in the added level of scrutiny that comes with social media and I don’t envy them at all, especially Charlotte who we all know will be picked apart on everything from her hair to her clothes, but of course no one will give a damn on what her brothers look like.

Sorry to double post but on the topic of Charlotte I’ll be interested to see how the palace game works for her.

She will be the royal family’s darling, just like her mother, who will be protected from everything…until George marries and there’s a future Queen in town. If we are to believe any of what Harry says, and I certainly think there’s truth in the idea that they protect the top dogs by throwing the others under a bus, then chances are Charlotte will be the one to suffer to protect her brother. I say Charlotte over Louis because the press love a woman V woman fight over a man V man so even if George married Charlottes best friend, they’ll still be pitted against each other and only one will get the elusive palace protection.

I hope I’m wrong though and that Wills and Kate manage to change things for the sake of their kids, I do think they seem to genuinely put their kids before anything else, including the monarchy, which Charles never quite managed.

I agree - they do seem to put the kids first which should pay off in the form of a more stable RF in the future. I don't necessarily think that Charlotte would be thrown to the wolves to protect George. Her parents aren't going to authorise that. The papers might go down that road but I doubt it will come from the palace. By the time George is king and there's a new Queen, George and Charlotte should be old enough that there will be a new generation and they'll be more interesting to the papers. Nobody is pitting Camilla and Anne against each other now Charles is king!! If I were William or Kate then I'd be more worried about this cheeky rogue persona that's being built up around Louis. It reminds me a bit of Harry's previous profile.

 

[Mark81]

I am not sure where the idea comes from that other monarchies don't use duke and duchess titles. They do, most more than we do.

They do you're right, but they do use crown prince a lot too. I'm not saying other monarchies don't also use duchess etc, I'm saying we should drop the old aristocracy ones here and use only crown titles (similarly used by european families) together with prince and princess.

The aristocracy titles have so little meaning in modern UK, also the prince of Wales one should go too.

 

[Em_gardener]

They do you're right, but they do use crown prince a lot too. I'm not saying other monarchies don't also use duchess etc, I'm saying we should drop the old aristocracy ones here and use only crown titles (similarly used by european families) together with prince and princess.

The aristocracy titles have so little meaning in modern UK, also the prince of Wales one should go too.

Do you mean drop the ones like Sussex and Cambridge that are given to royals or drop the whole lot? If the latter, I think that could only happen if you were getting rid of the whole system of the monarchy. I think getting rid of the house of lords would be a good way of distributing power and influence more fairly. I know people who aren't lords can get into it now but it's still really elitist.

 

[TennisTina]

I disagree they put their children first, and I'm surprised as I genuinely thought they would. They have been out front and centre a lot in recent months and imo unnecessarily so. They could leave them home for most of these events. What happened to the annual pic and no more? I really thought Kate wouldn't do it. They're open to all comments and speculation now as they grow. Edward and Sophie, tho obviously lower profile, have done well and their children are outside of the most vulnerable years now. I get K&W want to be with them at family events but my priority would be shielding them as much as possible from it all and to hell with any criticism. Lots of uncomfortable expressions from George and also Charlotte.

 

[Mark81]

Yes drop the ones like Duke, Earl etc of different places. They have barely any meaning outside the RF so retire them permanently. After all, what about all the places that don't have a title representing them, do we not matter? The titles also don't bring any more respect from the public, not these days. If people respect you with a dukedom they'd respect you just going by Prince William. And if they don't respect you it won't matter what title you have. All those titles may have been needed in a large family, but that's not where the monarchy is heading.

Wales and Scotland also have quite strong anti title feelings, so getting rid of prince of Wales and Duke of Edinburgh would appease those.

Really streamline the royal family. Yes it would involve an upheaval in protocols, but it needs to change to survive.

So it would be King Charles and Queen Consort Camilla, then Crown Prince William and Crown Princess Catherine (as far as I can tell partners can also get the title).

Other members of the family can just be prince and princess by birthright (if they want to use it). if they are working royals they can have perks relating to where they live, public funding etc (within reason). But non working royals are on their own financially.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of what would need to happen to achieve this, but I do think something like this would be a simpler and more streamlined monarchy for the modern age.

 

[stardust21]

I think people underestimate the security that the royals will have around them in clubs, and also the security in the clubs themselves.

For example Soho House has a no phone’s policy, and if you take photos of you lose your membership. You have to sign in yourself and any guests upon arrival so they know who has been there. All the private members clubs are the same.

They’re hardly going to be going to Spoons on a Friday night

 

[hannah123]

I disagree they put their children first, and I'm surprised as I genuinely thought they would. They have been out front and centre a lot in recent months and imo unnecessarily so. They could leave them home for most of these events. What happened to the annual pic and no more? I really thought Kate wouldn't do it. They're open to all comments and speculation now as they grow. Edward and Sophie, tho obviously lower profile, have done well and their children are outside of the most vulnerable years now. I get K&W want to be with them at family events but my priority would be shielding them as much as possible from it all and to hell with any criticism. Lots of uncomfortable expressions from George and also Charlotte.

Shielding George from the reality that is his future could cause him more harm in the long run. Other members of the family like Zara and Peter took their children, including Beatrice’s step child, who don’t need to be there, so I’m assuming it’s not that awful for the kids or the parents wouldn’t take them.

Sorry if I'm late but what did you all think of King Charles Christmas speech?

I thought it was a good speech. Called out the government and the poor handling of public sector staff without saying exactly that. I like how it felt very Charles in the sense of mentioning other religions and how everyone can take away and benefit from the spirit of Christmas without being a Christian.

 

[Boring Monday]

Yes drop the ones like Duke, Earl etc of different places. They have barely any meaning outside the RF so retire them permanently. After all, what about all the places that don't have a title representing them, do we not matter? The titles also don't bring any more respect from the public, not these days. If people respect you with a dukedom they'd respect you just going by Prince William. And if they don't respect you it won't matter what title you have. All those titles may have been needed in a large family, but that's not where the monarchy is heading.

Wales and Scotland also have quite strong anti title feelings, so getting rid of prince of Wales and Duke of Edinburgh would appease those.

Really streamline the royal family. Yes it would involve an upheaval in protocols, but it needs to change to survive.

So it would be King Charles and Queen Consort Camilla, then Crown Prince William and Crown Princess Catherine (as far as I can tell partners can also get the title).

Other members of the family can just be prince and princess by birthright (if they want to use it). if they are working royals they can have perks relating to where they live, public funding etc (within reason). But non working royals are on their own financially.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of what would need to happen to achieve this, but I do think something like this would be a simpler and more streamlined monarchy for the modern age.

There are more non Royal Dukedoms/peerages than you can shake a stick at knocking around and it would require a heck of a lot of unpicking to deal with … and it wouldn’t stop the likes of the Cavendishes owing Chatsworth or the Howrd family having the care of Castle Howard, etc.

The only Royal Dukedomes are currently Gloucester and Kent, which revert to ‘ordinary’ Dukedomes when the current incumbent passes it down, York which will become extinct when Andrew does, Cambridge which will revert to the Crown when William becomes Monarch, Sussex which would technically remain royal for Archie and then revert and Cornwall which will pass to George.

The easiest way to reduce the royal Dukedoms would not be to hand them out … so nothing for the partner of Charlotte or Louis on marriage or coming of age.

 

[TennisTina]

I'm not talking just about the Christmas walk, per se, but the overall exposure has really ramped up. I can't see how this could be a positive in these early years.. Necessary at times and with time, yes, but it's a lot recently.

 

[Jen667]

We had the Platinum jubilee in 2022 and then the Queen's Death, so we did see more of the Cambridge kids than usual. I don't feel they're overly exposed.

 

[Blurp]

I am not sure where the idea comes from that other monarchies don't use duke and duchess titles. They do, most more than we do.

Yup, Swedish royals all get Duke/Duchess titles in addition to Prince/Princess as soon as they get their names after birth; the duchy is announced with the name. The ten-year-old second in line, Princess Estelle, is Duchess of Östergötland; her brother and all her cousins have duchies too as grandchildren of the monarch, it's only the HRH/HH that distinguishes the main line grandchildren.

Elisabeth, the Duchess of Brabant, is heir to King Philippe of the Belgians. Like the Swedes, children of the monarch's daughters get royal titles so the children of Princess Astrid are Prince/Princess of Belgium.

In the Netherlands, only the main line grandchildren get Prince and Princess but the others get aristocratic titles. The children of Prince Constantine of the Netherlands are Count and Countess and the children of Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau (who gave up his Prince of the Netherlands title when the government gave a thumbs down to his bride) are also Countesses.

So plenty of aristocratic titles still kicking around Europe to say nothing of all the German mini royals who merged the titles with the surnames to get round the law. I personally think that the Danish royal stushie has less to do with the slimming down if the monarchy and more to do with the toxic family dynamics; other European monarchies manage quite well with their non main line princes and princesses working at real jobs, just as Prince William of Gloucester had a real job in the Diplomatic Service.

 

[Honeystar]

I'm not talking just about the Christmas walk, per se, but the overall exposure has really ramped up. I can't see how this could be a positive in these early years.. Necessary at times and with time, yes, but it's a lot recently.

To be fair we have seen them a lot this year but it’s arguably been one of the biggest royals years for a long long time. Starting with Phillips memorial, the jubilee, the queens funeral and now Christmas. It would be odd for George especially to not be there. They said from the very start that they would introduce them slowly, which is why we still don’t see Louis at everything. I doubt we’ll see them anywhere near as much next year unless something major happens aside from the coronation.

I think people underestimate the security that the royals will have around them in clubs, and also the security in the clubs themselves.

For example Soho House has a no phone’s policy, and if you take photos of you lose your membership. You have to sign in yourself and any guests upon arrival so they know who has been there. All the private members clubs are the same.

They’re hardly going to be going to Spoons on a Friday night

Very true but then I think William did frequent the popular student bars at uni and I’m sure George etc would want to do the same. I know the Dutch heir recently had to move out of student halls and back home because her security just couldn’t work properly in student accommodation today.

 

[Stillwater]

It’s also a charm offensive, no?!