The Archie Battersbee case #2

[GalaxyGirl70]

It sounds like the Judge has been extremely compassionate towards the family

 

[Youre a wizard Harry]

don’t know how many people follow the other forum so here’s some of what’s been shared by them:
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There’s also a post about how his BP is all over the place and how his meds have changed or something. Can’t really tell because reading some of these posts is like trying to figure out a puzzle of sorts

“Male nutrition” (I know spelling is not really important here but…)

 

[FoxyBingo]

Impossibly sad. But the judge's words are bang on, he was matter of fact whilst remaining compassionate towards the family.

Mr Justice Hayden said continuing treatment was "futile".

"It serves only to protract his death, whilst being unable to prolong his life," he said.

The judge said evidence showed that Archie had suffered a "significant injury" to "multiple areas" of his brain and had not "regained awareness at any time".

"Archie's mother described him as a fighter and I have no doubt he was," said Mr Justice Hayden.

"But the fight, if it can properly be characterised as such, is no longer in Archie's control.

"The damage to his brain has deprived him of any bodily autonomy.

"Eventually Archie's organs will fail and ultimately his heart will stop."

 

[tigerlilly_xx]

I'm not in the group so haven't seen any of the comments first hand, but the ones I have seen posted here are beyond strange.

These people have never met Archie before, they are tapped in the head.

My opinion on Hollie changes all the time, and I wonder if it's guilt that's driving this circus? She knows he intended to kill himself, and she feels guilty for that?

Ima go ahead and just say it how I think it is tbh.

I personally think she was neglecting him. He had the porn hub logo as his TikTok profile picture. Why on earth would an 11 year old know about that website?
His taste in music too, extremely dark. He listened to the same stuff as I do I believe but a child should not be hearing it. Plus, most of the “popular” artists in that category are dead, through drugs or doing it themselfs.

With hollies dancing job too. Maybe she was just extremely open with him about sex but it’s still got huge alarm bells going off for me in my head.

I’m not here to judge anyone who does sex work to raise their family, however I will judge anyone who cannot keep it separate from her family.

Along with the fact the night before he was found with a cord around his neck in his sisters room, her story changing every time she opens her gob ,the mention of drugs being found in her house,
Her pushing and pushing this TikTok game bullshit.

I think ALOT is going to come on when Archie is laid to rest, and the more that comes out now about her the more I fully believe this media circus is all about a distraction.

I also think by using her Facebook page and lying to them about what’s going on, telling them not to listen to court papers, and to only listen to hollie, deleting anyone that even dares to question it, she’s trying to get people on her side. So when it does come out, she’s not fully public enemy number 1.

That poor boy was so Damn fucking unhappy and she had her rose tinted glasses shoved so far up to her eyes she had no clue, or she did, and just ignored it.

 

[moldwarp]

What irks me about this case is that the ICU doctors and nurses, many of whom will already be burned out from over 2 years of covid, are now having to provide care to what is tragically a dead body. It must be horrific for their morale. Not to mention the sick kids who don’t get to have a bed in ICU because Archie’s body is in it. It costs like £2 grand a day to have a child in ICU I think? Our NHS is on its knees and they are having to spend time and money fighting this case to the detriment of the staff and other sick kids who need that bed.

i do feel for Archie’s mum, I suspect his home life was not a 100% happy one but she is still going through hell and I can’t imagine her pain. I do think that she is being utterly manipulated by this Christian Law Centre who don’t really care about Archie per se but are fighting this case to prove a religious/political point.

absolutely no winners in this situation, it’s dreadful all round.

 

[hydeist]

Has anyone seen the photos that found that has the amount of people on the AA Facebook that have got Archie tattoos

The tattoos are just the most insane thing. I have no fucking idea why all these strangers are getting tattoos of his name other than they're all massive fucking attention seekers trying to centre themselves in some drama. It's disgusting.

 

[stevenseagull]

So DFA shared a video where Hollie was asking the low IQ brigade for their opinion on a fluctuation in the respiratory rate on the ventilator. One of them replied that she wasn’t a nurse or doctor, but there was no other logical explanation and that Archie must have taken a spontaneous breath.
No other logical explanation except artefacts and auto triggering of the ventilator… These people are deluded, even giving their opinions on matters that they have no qualifications to have opinions on.

it shows the depths of her mistrust towards the hospital including the nurses no matter how much she says otherwise

DFA have a screen grab of a video Hollie posted on her own page presumably and Archie’s leg is skeletal - it’s horrifying. Makes you realise how bloated his face is in comparison

Spoiler

 

[Cornbread2]

This is the first thing that comes up when I search ‘Archie Battersbee.’ The idiocy of these people astounds me. ‘I would stand between Archie and doctor death.’ Aye love. ‘Archie was showing signs of recovery’ what? I really want to know what medical knowledge these people have of recovery. The boy hasn’t moved a muscle in about three months. ‘He or she doesn’t care.’ Yeah, the doctor that does hourly blood tests, treatments, and injections on a child’s corpse really must not care about medicine or their job. These people need rounded up and their phones confiscated.

 

[veevee04]

Unfortunately the actions of this woman, and others like her, have real world consequences for everyone. The more low IQ people become emboldened and fight back against medics, the more likely medics are to become more and more cautious when treating patients. We already have a situation where death is a taboo subject and this is preventing sick and dying people from accessing appropriate care. People are directly suffering due to this new - life at all costs - orthodoxy. It does affect medics and it prevents them from being able to do their work effectively. I have both personally and professionally experienced this and one of the reasons why I left nursing.

I have also noticed a correlation between intelligence levels and the ability to comprehend death and deal with subsequent grief. The likes of the Facebook huns are typically very dim and live in a fake world of TV dramas, social media fakery, movies and petty personal dramas of their own making. As a consequence their only experience of death comes from the media where people make spectacular recoveries and hysterical outbursts wake comatose patients up. This is not the real world. This culture is harming people. It is harming society. We need to come to terms with the fact that people die, even youngsters, as unfortunate as that is.

I may appear unsympathetic, that isn't my intention, it's just that I have been involved in the bigger picture and my instinct as a former nurse is to limit suffering. I can't see things improving and cases like this just drive the wedge in deeper.

This is the crux of the problem, of course a young child dying is a tragedy but there seems to be a real taboo around death in our culture. I've seen people being kept alive when they have zero quality of life they start refusing food, wasting and contractures where they are stuck in the foetal position. Being force fed then antibiotics so the body keeps going . I have seen some good deaths where pain relief has been given and families are accepting of the situation.

I follow campaigns called dignity in dying and dying matters. I definitely believe people can have good deaths we have the drugs available to ease suffering but we really need families to get on board and work with us. I really think more openly talking about death could prevent things like this.

 

[Tofino]

Oh that’s very kind, thank you. I feel very privileged to be able to care for the people I do, which makes it worthwhile!

(Also sorry for banging on about ICU all the time, just very interested in this case as it’s close to what I know/see often and felt I can offer insights/info during the discussions being had. People please do tell me to shut up!! X)

Please don’t stop offering your insight. I’ve spent the last few days reading both threads from the start, finally caught up today, and I’ve found yourself, and the other posters who have shared their experiences with brain injury / ICU, so incredibly valuable to this thread.

So many of these conversations get shut down in other places (no surprise it happened at the one with mums, it’s one reason why I never read there anymore) when these are really important conversations to have, no matter if it makes for very sad reading at times.

Since I followed the Charlie Gard case I’ve understood how these decisions need to be made in the best interest of the child and not the parents so I followed Archie’s case with that already in mind and the decision here seems very clear to me.

But here I’ve learned so much more about brain death (I’ve never heard of coning before but I understand the general term now) and the level of care involved in keeping someone who is brain dead artificially alive. It can be rather grim reading at times but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to ignore these topics, they are too important and could affect any one of us at any time.

In the last judgement, Mr Justice Hayden said the following and BIB really stood out to me

In her statement, Dr F lists the treatments that seek to manage or mitigate this instability. They require to be set out here because they reveal the reality that every aspect of Archie’s bodily function is maintained artificially through ventilatory support, chemical assistance and the physical care provided by the nurses. This is a remarkable medical achievement but the moral and ethical challenges it creates are obvious.

He is absolutely right. The work you and your colleagues do is just mind-blowing, that humans have learned with such intricate and precise detail how to replicate many of the functions of the brain, enough to be able to support a body whilst giving brains a chance to recover from injury. And whilst very grim to say it, also able to keep a person’s body alive artificially even if their brain has died.

I’m just very sorry for those working with Archie that the work they are putting in day after day is futile and so distressing for them. I really thank you and other posters for sharing this with us. I just hope it’s not too much for you, emotionally, after spending all day at work doing it.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

I commented in the last thread that surely there needs to be better protection for children like Archie under law. Her failure to accept his death has cost millions of pounds, both medically and legally that could have gone to helping children who had an actual chance at life. And I find that unforgivable.

 

[bubbadabut]

It strikes me that she is thriving on the publicity and having been elevated to some kind of saintly mother figure by her motley crew. This is not about what's best for her son, it hasn't been for a very long time. It's about her toxic hatred and mistrust of the medics who have treated him so meticulously well. Look at the incredibly invasive stuff they are having to do to him on a daily, even hourly basis. While she's probably sat there watching them, whilst scrolling her Facebook and posting disgusting comments about them. Archie has had months more "time" than most people get. She is an uncouth, ungrateful woman and the sooner she retreats into obscurity the better. I hope Archie has a swift and peaceful passing.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Hayden is a brilliant judge.

And whoever it was wittering on about dignity not being defined in law the other day I suggest you read the judgment in full.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Barts-Health-Trust-v-Battersbee-judgment-150722.pdf

 

[Tippingpoint23]

If they’re going to have her on daytime tv they should have both sides, a doctor or a professional and court transcripts to dispute her lies. Instead she is simply spreading fake information and the public could easily feel for her and believe her if they aren’t inclined to do a bit of research themselves.

 

[LennyBriscoe]

I’m binge reading the first thread (I’m not sure that’s such a good idea tbh) but I wanted to jump forward to say something.

Both my parents have passed away now but my dad had multiple hospital stays whereas my mum was ill for a short time before dying from cancer. My husband had a lengthy hospital stay and while I was in active alcoholism, I had many short stays in hospital. (Some nursing staff in my local A and E couldn’t hide their contemp at an addict draining resources by coming in after another withdrawal seizure). I have seen excellent hospital staff, poor hospital staff (one Consultant told my husband, in the day room, that he would never walk again) and a lot in the middle. I am under no illusion that everyone is the perfect practitioner and you only need to look at the NNC tribunals, MPTS and HCPTS websites to see that.

A lot of people who contributed to the first thread on Archie have first hand knowledge due to their careers and I appreciate that knowledge. I don’t pick up the vibe that everyone is coming down on the side of the hospital staff due to hero-worshipping. I think, if anything, people’s devastating and very real examples of when things have gone wrong may make them inclined to think the hospital are wrong automatically.

I am a mother, and it breaks my heart to think what it must be like for Hollie, Archie’s dad and extended family. But I just can’t get on board with what they’re doing. It must be so overwhelming and confusing and not all Doctors are blessed with a good bedside manner but it looks to me like they’re blocking out anything they don’t want to hear. The sad thing in all this is all the grief tourists on social media fuelling a mother who, in my opinion, does not have Archie’s best interests at heart. If my son was in Archie’s situation, I’d struggle to leave him to get changed much less so I could go on the sofa with Phil and Holly.

I have found the medical explanations here very educational and I don’t know what happens after you die or what is happening to Archie right now. . But I hope he is at peace.

ETA - my husband can walk!

 

[Beany19]

I no hate is a strong word but I absolutely hate this woman with a passion blames everyone but herself for what has happened to her son she's so disrespectful to the people who have looking after archie yet still wants him to receive the treatment from them she is.now slagging the judge off left right and centre she's just pathetic get of social media stop doing TV interviews and spend the last days hugging and kissing and holding your beautiful boys hand.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

I'm sorry but her stupidity is overwhelming. Does she not understand that cardiac arrest means your heart stops beating........... I don't know how she was stood smiling at the media after hearing that.

I'm convinced that there's something very seriously wrong with this lady.

 

[FoxyBingo]

Just watched her on This Morning - she’s saying he just needs more time to recover and that she’s been told by other “survivors” that it could take 4-6 months.

Anyone watching that who doesn’t know the case would probably side with her, it wasn’t factual at all about what’s actually happening.

ITV are dangerous for letting her on the show to spout her shit. It's absolutely shameful. I hate This Morning anyway, glad I don't watch it!

 

[avabella]

I love how Hollie had never heard of a children's nutrition shake widely available and known to parents, yet knows more than a High Court Judge.

 

[TheBlondeBuffoon]

I just can’t get over the sheer arrogance of thinking you know better than a team of paediatric intensivists, when you have no medical background. Saying she will insist a medication is stopped if an X-ray doesn’t show something. Blimey. She really is something else.