It's all bullshit and I'd trust nothing any of them say. It's interesting though, I hope someone investigates what happened for real. At this point it's just a bunch of unreliable videos and who knows the real truth.
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Why were these people allowed into Australia, what benefit are they to this country? Liars and manipulators.
The family being citizens, they don’t have ground to deny them to enter the country I assume… and there’s the taxpayers money which needs to be used somehow… on lazy, manipulative people who breed like rabbits for benefits
It's such an emotive topic as well, but that emotion is all about caring about Cleopatra and her situation right? She's obviously very vulnerable (as is her baby) - family support would be a big part of getting through everything that has happened to her, but her family situation is so different it's hard to have confidence in that working. It doesn't bode well that her mother thought that it was okay for her to go in front of the camera and make that vlog in the first place (and the intent of it doesn't seem to be a healthy part of processing type thing - it was for a money making vlog and family income).
Absolutely, I just see this really young girl, all big eyed, in a rather horrifying situation. We know they lie and twist the truth but this is exactly what worries me, even if only 50%, 40%, 30% of what she says is correct, she needs serious help. And if she and her family are making it up.... they need even more help!!!! We know she got married, we know she got out and we know she's pregnant. And let's be honest, we know the parents don't have the wherewithal or the intelligence to recognise this and get her help. I hate the fact she's evidently been pushed to say things in that video. Thats not therapy, it's just forcing her to relive it. Which I think she was, looking at her reactions and the nervous laughter. I wasn't okay to discuss what happened to me (and there wasn't other countries, marriage or a baby involved) for a good few years after it happened. She's going to have to go through pregnancy, birth and raising that kid, and mother dearest is acting like its gods gift.
Also... are we really going to ignore that a 20 year old and a 33 year old were together and has created a child. I know its technically legal, but given the age gap, and life experience gap... it's incredibly concerning.
Do we really think that the licciardo-toivola children have had the birds and the bees talk? Like the proper one? Including consent and how to avoid manipulation and grooming? Because I highly, highly doubt it. (Taina, that doesn't mean show us them having the 'talk' on youtube, keep that private) This leaves, especially Cleo and the other girls, in an even more vulnerable position where she probably (big assumption) doesn't know all the ins and outs of sex and sexual health. And again, even if less than half of what she says is true, that dude has taken advantage of her in other ways. Do we think the child kidnapper has limits to what he'll do?
Again, big assumptions, but we know for a fact that religious families don't necessarily educate their kids in physical and sexual health. And we have seen the state of their home school education. I don't think it's much of a massive jump.
It seems a lot of us have been through terrifying situations, involving sexual assault. Something none of us should have experienced. I would like to think that when you see a young girl faking and pretending, giggling, that perhaps you don't take that at face value. I can fake a giggle, and I have had to in bars, clubs, on busses to get away from nasty men. BELIEVE ME you can fake a giggle.
The racism... yeah nah, doesn't make sense. I think the majority of the video is twisted, but the fact remains that an innocent sheltered 20 year old married a man with a criminal record in his 30s without prior meeting. And now she's pregnant. Its really not beyond, is it?
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I can’t bear to watch the video. Please could someone enlighten me on the racism situation?
The racism thing, as far as I a, aware, was some of the children doing a hand gesture that used to mean something else and was taken over by the white supremacist movement… tbh I viewed it as racist as the gesture hadn’t really been used elsewhere for years..
I also thought her tears over him idealising Aryan women and wanting her to dye her hair, rather than the actual assault and all the other terrible things he did was so bizarre. I don't think we'll ever know the whole side but I definitely think both Taina and the guy have serious issues.I used the better half of my day reading the 43 pages of comments here and I was like hold on a second… why are we assuming The nighttime activities which resulted on having the bun in the oven was unconsensual?
She mentioned mental and psychical abuse (but the latter could be a wide range of other things not necessarily in that matter). I mean we saw the multiple photos on the collage where she’s intimately lying on top of him on the bed without cloths on and the video as well… believe me I’ve been there done all of that: I’ve been s3xually assaulted by a stranger I’ve never met before, while the he was threatening to kill me if I oppose than asking me to marry him right after he was done, realizing he’s missing a few screws and having that firm grip on my neck, I had no other choice than pretend to go along with it until I gained his trust and managed to run away to safety… different occasion I’ve been the victim of domestic violence as well, both mental and physical. Sorry for the detour but I feel the background information was somehow necessary, so you don’t think I take this things lightly!!!
Anyhow back to the video of her yet again intimately lying on top of him naked and she kissing him and giggle the way she does… that’s genuine, mark my words NO victim can first of all pretend that giggle… you can put in a fake smile, or even a big grin… but there is no way the giggle it’s fake. Second of all those kisses … if you suppose to kiss someone who s3xually abuses you, than i must be doing something wrong, because that’s how I kiss my boyfriend I love.
I don’t say she wasn’t harmed, because I don’t know the story, but when it comes to the baby making process just doesn’t make it to the list, because there are some things you just can’t pretend so good!
I also find it a little bit odd that the alleged racism upsets her more than being isolated and abused as she said she was…
But here’s another theory: what if the whole marriage was with the purpose of getting her pregnant than she running away in the first place…She goes back to Australia as an Australian citizen, and gives birth to a baby in Australian soil… no government will release that Australian baby or favor the father with custody. Shared custody it’s out of question, right? So there’s a way blackmailing the supposedly “rich” babydaddy/husband to finance that property or whatever they allegedly blackmailed him for. I mean most people in order to just be able see the kid would do anything I assume and what better leverage you could have to blackmail than a baby, right?
But he turned out to be a broke ass con artist and abusive so they had to change the game plan. Or not… Just a penny for the thoughts, so please don’t crucify me
The only thing we will know it’s the lies they dripping for us.
I also agree that they're really stupid people if they choose to broadcast this child's life online, it will grow up with all these strangers knowing what happened between the parents and that's not right at all.
She was saying that the man she married dyes his hair blonde, wanted her to dye her hair blonde and that he idolised white features. She cried about loving everyone of all races and that she couldnt believe anyone thought that way.
no.... this was an internet scam. It has nothing to do with white supremacy. Even my friends and I played this game as kids in school. If someone does the upside down 'OK' gesture and someone else looks at it, they get punched. It's literally just a dumb game that the family was late to. Its like the pepe frog meme being hijacked by white supremacy, it wasn't anything to do with racism until one person on 4chan said it was.
I honestly think that if she hadn't gotten pregnant they wouldn't have made a video about what happened to her. But the growing belly forced them to have to explain it in order to keep making youtube videos. But the way it was done, trying to tell a horror story in a child-friendly way, all smiles and laughing about it all... really concerning.
I'm still confused about how it all started. They both met online while the whole family was still in Findland, correct? Was JJ also in Findland or in the US? Then, when they first met in person, was it in the US? Was it just Cleo that traveled alone to meet him and then Taina and some more went for the wedding? or how did it happen?
I wouldn't be surprised if Cleopatra was the one willingly wanting to marry the guy at first in order to be independent and away from her family. Even when she realized the first lies, maybe she still wanted to make it work. I feel bad it got so ugly. She seems the sweetest girl. But the fact Taina didn't record any of the beginning shows she knew it would raise lots of concerns. With the first son, everything was worth recording, with Cleopatra it was all dark and hidden. So sad. I really hope Taina's learned her lesson and starts protecting her kids more.
Also, she saw an African American baby and commented on how beautiful the baby was and he started saying awful things about the baby.
I'm still confused about how it all started. They both met online while the whole family was still in Findland, correct? Was JJ also in Findland or in the US? Then, when they first met in person, was it in the US? Was it just Cleo that traveled alone to meet him and then Taina and some more went for the wedding? or how did it happen?
I wouldn't be surprised if Cleopatra was the one willingly wanting to marry the guy at first in order to be independent and away from her family. Even when she realized the first lies, maybe she still wanted to make it work. I feel bad it got so ugly. She seems the sweetest girl. But the fact Taina didn't record any of the beginning shows she knew it would raise lots of concerns. With the first son, everything was worth recording, with Cleopatra it was all dark and hidden. So sad. I really hope Taina's learned her lesson and starts protecting her kids more.
She also said that he took her Converse away and gave her other kind of shoes. When she asked why he said it was because Converse were the shoes Mexicans wore and she definitely didn't want to look like a Mexican.
Also, she saw an African American baby and commented on how beautiful the baby was and he started saying awful things about the baby.
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After reading some comments saying that Taina said to the children that her sister was dead... this is not true.
I've watched the video again and she says that when they were going to leave Finland, and they (I guess Taina, Paul and the older ones) didn´t know if she was alive or dead (of course because she couldn't talk with them for months) they told to Nefertiti, King James, Aphrodite and Omega that she will not come back ever again, that she was living her live. Not that she was dead.
And they said that one day King James asked Jerusalem about Cleopatras's return and it was Nefertiti that said that she will never come back. Again not dead. And onece again, Aphrodite talked about her big sister and it was Nefertiti, again, who answered.
And yes, the justice can forbide him any kind of contact with this baby with a restraining order and with his "past" and all this new charges against him, I don't think that he could go to Australia.
I've watched the video again and she says that when they were going to leave Finland, and they (I guess Taina, Paul and the older ones) didn´t know if she was alive or dead (of course because she couldn't talk with them for months) they told to Nefertiti, King James, Aphrodite and Omega that she will not come back ever again, that she was living her live. Not that she was dead.
And they said that one day King James asked Jerusalem about Cleopatras's return and it was Nefertiti that said that she will never come back. Again not dead. And onece again, Aphrodite talked about her big sister and it was Nefertiti, again, who answered.
It wasn't all his family who had restraining orders, it was just some members. That can make easier for them to believe Cleopatra when she asked them some help at that party and told them what he was doing to her.
And yes, the justice can forbide him any kind of contact with this baby with a restraining order and with his "past" and all this new charges against him, I don't think that he could go to Australia.
Yeah something just doesn’t add up, when a family who loves bathing in attention keeps the lips tight about a fricking wedding… All seems to be rushed. On 1 of those picture collages some pictures seemed to be from the wedding and looks like a Vegas type wedding in a chapel… she having her everyday cloths on, so does the fam. I don’t know why, but a girl from a super religious family being married of by Elvis while wearing hoodies and converse, also daddy didn’t walk her down the isle and the better half of the family not attending at all…it’s just suspicious.
Also I have question for those who live in the US: isn't there something about 90 days living together before they get married to prove it’s not a scam wedding aimed to get a green card?
Also I have question for those who live in the US: isn't there something about 90 days living together before they get married to prove it’s not a scam wedding aimed to get a green card?
Yeah. I've seen the same thing here in my country. Just like a joke.
How can they be racist when the little girls have black baby born dolls?
Ahd "the dude" said that converse are shoes for the mexican people, not for them. As an insult. And maybe that is the reason why they show the white converse Cleopatra is wearing at the pregnancy video.
Did you see Leonardo's wedding? They where wearing jeans, converse and normal clothes. Only Taina dressed different.
And about the family not being at the wedding... with all the Covid situation is not easy to travel with a big family, and they were trying to go to Australia as soon as possible.
Some ppl just decide to get married and then, when the situation will be better, to celebrate the party. Maybe it was his idea to celebrate the wedding as fast as possible.
This family is sick...the mother and father are seriously twisted...and am I the only one who sees Romeo and thinks that kid is absolutely terrified of his whack job mother??? He looks so depressed all the time. The whole situation is so abnormal. And it is literally no surprise that Cleo announced a pregnancy.
I hope at least one of them is able to escape the cult and write a tell all ( and being married off at 19 or 20 doesn't count). I'd read it
No they were married in April, baby must be due end January/February time.
Hi everyone,
I just joined TL just to comment on this thread because this saga is so crazy. I swear it will become an investigatory podcast one day.
Anyway, I have been trying to piece together the timeline: Around March or April 2021 Taina posted several Instagram stories of her and some of the boys skiing in Lake Tahoe (it was definitely late season, likely April, because they were skiing in t-shirts and the snow was slushy) and I distinctly recall her saying that she will ’reveal’ the reason why they were there in August 2021. Then it seems they returned to Finland and moved to Australia shortly after. This coincides with their suspected May 2021 quarantine in Brisbane.
I think I read a previous comment in this thread where someone said that Cleopatra arrived in Australia in August 2021, and I also think it was 4 months that Cleopatra was in the US, so that timeline also lines up. It also answers the question as to why the ’reveal’ video was never delivered, since they found out Cleopatra’s new husband was a lunatic and so she left him beforehand.
In the pregnancy announcement video Cleopatra looks at least 7 or 8 months pregnant. This means she probably got pregnant somewhere between May and June (and due in February-ish 2022). I’m thinking she arrived in April, got married straight away or was already married, it was all rosy for a month or two and in that time she got pregnant and participated in those weird tiktoks with him, then something happened and he became abusive, so she left and went to Australia in August 2021.
I also have a bit of a theory on how they met: I think Paul delivers some kind of online church? so perhaps the husband joined the online church and formed a relationship with the family that way (hence Paul calling him “son“) and either it was arranged for Cleopatra to go, or her husband asked Paul if he could marry her and they started a relationship that way. I also wonder if they were married online and then Taina and the boys went to drop her off, which would explain the surprise at his height.
I just joined TL just to comment on this thread because this saga is so crazy. I swear it will become an investigatory podcast one day.
Anyway, I have been trying to piece together the timeline: Around March or April 2021 Taina posted several Instagram stories of her and some of the boys skiing in Lake Tahoe (it was definitely late season, likely April, because they were skiing in t-shirts and the snow was slushy) and I distinctly recall her saying that she will ’reveal’ the reason why they were there in August 2021. Then it seems they returned to Finland and moved to Australia shortly after. This coincides with their suspected May 2021 quarantine in Brisbane.
I think I read a previous comment in this thread where someone said that Cleopatra arrived in Australia in August 2021, and I also think it was 4 months that Cleopatra was in the US, so that timeline also lines up. It also answers the question as to why the ’reveal’ video was never delivered, since they found out Cleopatra’s new husband was a lunatic and so she left him beforehand.
In the pregnancy announcement video Cleopatra looks at least 7 or 8 months pregnant. This means she probably got pregnant somewhere between May and June (and due in February-ish 2022). I’m thinking she arrived in April, got married straight away or was already married, it was all rosy for a month or two and in that time she got pregnant and participated in those weird tiktoks with him, then something happened and he became abusive, so she left and went to Australia in August 2021.
I also have a bit of a theory on how they met: I think Paul delivers some kind of online church? so perhaps the husband joined the online church and formed a relationship with the family that way (hence Paul calling him “son“) and either it was arranged for Cleopatra to go, or her husband asked Paul if he could marry her and they started a relationship that way. I also wonder if they were married online and then Taina and the boys went to drop her off, which would explain the surprise at his height.
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