Taina Licciardo-Toivola - Ten children all dressed in white and an invisible husband

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it doesnt matter about the marriage, if a child is genetically yours you do have a claim and de all know how difficult abuse is to prove. the whole case is just SO bizarre
I'm know, I just mean it's not going to be that easy for him to get to the kid when she's on another continent. That makes it way more difficult for him.
And no, I don't think the "father" of the baby would have a chance to see his kid because somebody said that he has another son that he tried to kidnap and has a restraining order against some of his family members so.... if we put together this and the Cleopatra's marriage situation....
Good point, there's little chance of him getting his hands on this kid. I just worry if he'll do it to some other naive girl..
 
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Hi! I'm new here so I don't know if anyone said something that I'm going to say before.

I don't like Taina and some of the kids, but I like almost all of them.
I know that Taina is a.... "weird" person -to be polite- but I don't think she could ever "sell" any of her kids.
Some people say that she and Paul arranged Cleopatra's marriage to get some land in Australia, but... where is this land? They are still looking for a rental so they don't have any place there to build a house.
If they wanted that, Cleopatra would still be in USA with her husband. Taina will not let her "scape" until they got what they wanted. And if they have this land.... it's impossible to scape from a person that knows exactly where you are going to live.

About Leonardo's wedding videos.... Leonardo and Jenna were engaged for 2 years because she was under 18, so Leonardo was still living with the family so they appear in some videos. But after the wedding they barely appear or talk about them.

Taina, Jerusalem, Romeo and Omega traveled to USA before the wedding... or for the wedding. I thought it was weird that Taina mentioned Cleopatra on her stories on instagram when they where there but she never appeared "in person". Just the others.
So maybe they went for the wedding -she said that she will talk about this travel in the future- but once Cleopatra got married and left for the "Honeymoon", they satyed there for some time and that's when they lost all contact with her (as she said in the video. The "Dude" stole her phone and told the family they will never see her again).
If Taina wanted to make money with the wedding, she would uploaded any photo or video, and she didn't.
We knew that Cleopatra was married because "the dude" talked about it. Not thanks to Taina or Paul.
That part, makes sense to me.

And no, I don't think the "father" of the baby would have a chance to see his kid because somebody said that he has another son that he tried to kidnap and has a restraining order against some of his family members so.... if we put together this and the Cleopatra's marriage situation....
They didn't sell their daughter but they 100% arranged the marriage,he is/was a religious freak like them and they didn't do any background checks on him before they pushed their kid into marrying him, Cleopatra says he lied about his height which shows she didn't lay eyes on him until she was at the alter..I don't believe they knew he was as dangerous as he was but if my kid was missing no matter what their age you can be damn sure I'd be doing everything in my power to find them,these two clowns instead told the younger kids she was dead and to just forget about her..the horrible thing is that they still go and arrange weddings for the younger girls in a few years.
 
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How did Cleo manage to escape and get home?
She said that he took her to a b-day party and the family was there. At some point he left so she took this oportunity to talk to the family -she knew som of the family members had problems with him before- and ask for help.They took her to their home, called the police and Cleopatra's family because she couldn't.
Then she said that it was thanks to the police, family (both) and private security (Taina hired someone to help), she got an emergency passport to travel to Australia and scaped.

They didn't sell their daughter but they 100% arranged the marriage,he is/was a religious freak like them and they didn't do any background checks on him before they pushed their kid into marrying him, Cleopatra says he lied about his height which shows she didn't lay eyes on him until she was at the alter..I don't believe they knew he was as dangerous as he was but if my kid was missing no matter what their age you can be damn sure I'd be doing everything in my power to find them,these two clowns instead told the younger kids she was dead and to just forget about her..the horrible thing is that they still go and arrange weddings for the younger girls in a few years.
I don't think so.
Taina loves to stay with Cleopatra, they always say they are best friends. I think Taina prefers to keep her close so she can hang out together (I think sometimes they forget they are mother-daughter) and do the work at home.
If she could choose a husband for her, I think she should choose an australian one.
The rumors were that they arrenged that marriage with him in exchange for some lands in Australia.

And there's a lot of ppl that at the last moment they have this "I don't know if I want to marry" thougths. If Cleopatra had any doubt, I'm sure it was more about the distance (different countries) and split up from her family than him.
 
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She said that he took her to a b-day party and the family was there. At some point he left so she took this oportunity to talk to the family -she knew som of the family members had problems with him before- and ask for help.They took her to their home, called the police and Cleopatra's family because she couldn't.
Then she said that it was thanks to the police, family (both) and private security (Taina hired someone to help), she got an emergency passport to travel to Australia and scaped.
Sounds like the script for a bad movie.
 
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Cleopatra looked pregnant in the vlogs that were filmed about October time (they went to KMart and that spider suit that the showed was a pet Halloween costume). So at a guess she was about 3-4 months pregnant then.

All the other stuff with her husband either husband. I don't know. It is so weird. Im surprised a tv network here or the DailyMail haven't picked up this story.
 
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I did find it odd how she kept talking about height- she said she didn’t care about looks etc in a man but yet went on and on about the height!
 
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Holy cow I can't actually believe she is pregnant!! I thought they would have forced her to abort. I'm about to dive into the hour long video now. I'm so shocked!!
 
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I did find it odd how she kept talking about height- she said she didn’t care about looks etc in a man but yet went on and on about the height!
I thought that was odd as well. I mean it's ok to be upset that he lied about something so basic but his height shouldn't bother you. Proof though that they met online and then they just all go to the States so she can marry someone she hasn't met in person. It's still weird if you ask me. He must have really wowed her online if she wants to marry the first guy she ever dated.
 
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The whole situation is toxic, I feel so bad for Cleopatra, no wonder she’s lost so much weight. I can’t imagine being sent to a different country on your own to marry someone she’s never met who turns out to be a very nasty person, Cleo must being suffering from some kind of trauma and this baby will be a constant reminder

She said that he took her to a b-day party and the family was there. At some point he left so she took this oportunity to talk to the family -she knew som of the family members had problems with him before- and ask for help.They took her to their home, called the police and Cleopatra's family because she couldn't.
Then she said that it was thanks to the police, family (both) and private security (Taina hired someone to help), she got an emergency passport to travel to Australia and scaped.

Omg she’s so lucky his family helped her, it must have been really bad for her to risk asking his family for help knowing it could go either way.
 
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I thought that was odd as well. I mean it's ok to be upset that he lied about something so basic but his height shouldn't bother you. Proof though that they met online and then they just all go to the States so she can marry someone she hasn't met in person. It's still weird if you ask me. He must have really wowed her online if she wants to marry the first guy she ever dated.
It definitely sounds as though they were talking online and then saw each other literally at the wedding! I’m surprised that Tainia and Paul hadn’t met him and his family or at least something. It’s all just so odd! Even in cultures where it an arranged marriage and some don’t even see their future husband/wife until the wedding the parents and family have ‘vetted’ them first!
 
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It definitely sounds as though they were talking online and then saw each other literally at the wedding! I’m surprised that Tainia and Paul hadn’t met him and his family or at least something. It’s all just so odd! Even in cultures where it an arranged marriage and some don’t even see their future husband/wife until the wedding the parents and family have ‘vetted’ them first!
She didn’t just run away to USA to marry this guy she had never met and didn’t tell anyone. Her mother and some of the brothers were there. There were photos of them at Disney. They all allowed this tit show to happen, no one stopped this, even Disney movies say you can’t marry a man you’ve just met!

I doubt she would have been allowed to marry on the visitors visa she had, so would have likely breached her visa conditions. One requirement of prospective marriage visas is that you have had to meet IN PERSON at least once and they can take months to be approved as you need to show the relationship is genuine. They had never met since she had no idea how old he was or how tall he was. What a mess she’s got herself into, now she’s tied to this person for life with this innocent baby Taina is already exploiting for cash.
 
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Cleo and Taina would be the definition of stupid to put that baby on the internet. That man is dangerous, he is wanted by police and seemingly has the funds and connections to continue to mess with their lives. They are putting both Cleo and the baby in serious danger by continuing to film their lives and show details about the pregnancy and their family. The father has rights to see his child, no matter the circumstance of marriage, being in prison or on another continent. And believe me, if he wants to mess with them, he will. HAs anyone else heard of how babies that were conceived through rape get visitation and custody? The baby will be half asian, and so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the blond blue eyed family. This is not to doubt that baby will be loved and cherished (in the special way the Licciado-Toivolas do...), no matter what it looks like, but it means that it won't be difficult to spot the kid! All the father needs to do is to send someone to Australia to pick up the kid... kinda like how he just kidnapped his other child. He literally has previous with kidnapping children. Do we know what happened with the first childs' mother? Was it a Cleo situation? Does he have previous with marrying young girls, abusing and then impregnating them?

It's almost irrelevant how the marriage came to be. We know Paul and Taina are stark raving bonkers. My thoughts are that Cleo found this man, and they were very happy to support and push the situation. Taina has been going on about her childrens' future partners for donkeys years. I bet Taina jumped for joy at the thought of her daughter following in her own, youthful bridal footsteps. Any normal parent, upon hearing their daughter is talking to an unknown man online, would research and look into the person within an inch of their life (I know this from personal experience). It wouldn't have taken two seconds for them to find he was an incredibly dodgy character who had ABSOLUTELY no reason to be talking to a 20 year old girl. I know this, because it didn't take ME two seconds to find that Amber Alert.

Did she end up smiling right to the end of the vlog? That's not what I would call a 'normal' manner or response given the situation. And the way that she talked about talking about it in a very nice way in case her siblings watched the vlog wasn't 'normal' either.
There is no 'normal' manner when one has been abused, abandoned in motel rooms, physically assaulted and realistically raped. It's crass and uneducated to say there would be. How would you react if you or your sibling had this happen to them? Some of those kids you're saying reacted abnormally are literally five years old, they were told she was dead. As someone who has been through abusive relationships... watch what you say on the matter. It was also perfectly fine to 'put on a kid voice' when speaking about these events, not only to protect sensitive ears listening, but also to distance herself from the trauma. She, more than her mother, understands she needs to explain at least the very basic information to be believed and for people to get off her back. Whether she has been told to keep certain information back... that's another matter. Cleo is the victim here, do not judge her reaction to trauma. Part of her reaction will be blind relief, and disbelief at coming back to her normality. Her entire world view and how she thought the 'real world' is/was has been ripped from her. Torn apart and trampled on the floor, and she's realising that the rest of the world has continued as if nothing ever happened. It doesn't matter if her beliefs before were correct, (I don't believe they were, or are) this has been her experience.

Her mother on the other hand, needs her head seeing to. She's a danger to those children. She allowed her 20 year old daughter to move across the world without meeting the man she was to marry, and when contact broke off it seems like she shrugged her shoulders, told her younger kids Cleo had died, and waited around twiddling her thumbs until CLEO broke out. If that was my child, I would've flown to America. I wouldn't have worried about the issues with quarantine and covid rules. You think your child is dead? You go search, don't just tell the younger siblings she's dead.
 
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Cleo and Taina would be the definition of stupid to put that baby on the internet. That man is dangerous, he is wanted by police and seemingly has the funds and connections to continue to mess with their lives. They are putting both Cleo and the baby in serious danger by continuing to film their lives and show details about the pregnancy and their family. The father has rights to see his child, no matter the circumstance of marriage, being in prison or on another continent. And believe me, if he wants to mess with them, he will. HAs anyone else heard of how babies that were conceived through rape get visitation and custody? The baby will be half asian, and so will stick out like a sore thumb next to the blond blue eyed family. This is not to doubt that baby will be loved and cherished (in the special way the Licciado-Toivolas do...), no matter what it looks like, but it means that it won't be difficult to spot the kid! All the father needs to do is to send someone to Australia to pick up the kid... kinda like how he just kidnapped his other child. He literally has previous with kidnapping children. Do we know what happened with the first childs' mother? Was it a Cleo situation? Does he have previous with marrying young girls, abusing and then impregnating them?

It's almost irrelevant how the marriage came to be. We know Paul and Taina are stark raving bonkers. My thoughts are that Cleo found this man, and they were very happy to support and push the situation. Taina has been going on about her childrens' future partners for donkeys years. I bet Taina jumped for joy at the thought of her daughter following in her own, youthful bridal footsteps. Any normal parent, upon hearing their daughter is talking to an unknown man online, would research and look into the person within an inch of their life (I know this from personal experience). It wouldn't have taken two seconds for them to find he was an incredibly dodgy character who had ABSOLUTELY no reason to be talking to a 20 year old girl. I know this, because it didn't take ME two seconds to find that Amber Alert.



There is no 'normal' manner when one has been abused, abandoned in motel rooms, physically assaulted and realistically raped. It's crass and uneducated to say there would be. How would you react if you or your sibling had this happen to them? Some of those kids you're saying reacted abnormally are literally five years old, they were told she was dead. As someone who has been through abusive relationships... watch what you say on the matter. It was also perfectly fine to 'put on a kid voice' when speaking about these events, not only to protect sensitive ears listening, but also to distance herself from the trauma. She, more than her mother, understands she needs to explain at least the very basic information to be believed and for people to get off her back. Whether she has been told to keep certain information back... that's another matter. Cleo is the victim here, do not judge her reaction to trauma. Part of her reaction will be blind relief, and disbelief at coming back to her normality. Her entire world view and how she thought the 'real world' is/was has been ripped from her. Torn apart and trampled on the floor, and she's realising that the rest of the world has continued as if nothing ever happened. It doesn't matter if her beliefs before were correct, (I don't believe they were, or are) this has been her experience.

Her mother on the other hand, needs her head seeing to. She's a danger to those children. She allowed her 20 year old daughter to move across the world without meeting the man she was to marry, and when contact broke off it seems like she shrugged her shoulders, told her younger kids Cleo had died, and waited around twiddling her thumbs until CLEO broke out. If that was my child, I would've flown to America. I wouldn't have worried about the issues with quarantine and covid rules. You think your child is dead? You go search, don't just tell the younger siblings she's dead.
I don't particularly appreciate your assumptions that I am crass and uneducated. I offered some points of view which were obviously very concerned with Cleopatra's situation. For the record as well I talked about Cleopatra's manner in the vlog as appearing not to be a normal response to trauma - using the term normal possibly wasn't the best choice of a word, but her manner/ demeanour in the vlog was extremely concerning (and I do hope that she gets the help and support that she needs). You have also made a major leap to the assumption that my comments about Cleopatra's manner (as a 20 something year old person) would mean that I would expect a young child to react in a similar way. I would not.
 
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If his family had restraining orders out against him, and he was known to have kidnapped a child. Why did he take her to his family and leave her with them? That does not make sense? They were bound to help her out. So why would he do that if he is a vile abuser? It does not make sense to me?

Are court case hearing records public in Australia? I do not mean information on the gory details, but at least a record of who was being heard in what court on what day?
 
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I don't particularly appreciate your assumptions that I am crass and uneducated. I offered some points of view which were obviously very concerned with Cleopatra's situation. For the record as well I talked about Cleopatra's manner in the vlog as appearing not to be a normal response to trauma - using the term normal possibly wasn't the best choice of a word, but her manner/ demeanour in the vlog was extremely concerning (and I do hope that she gets the help and support that she needs). You have also made a major leap to the assumption that my comments about Cleopatra's manner (as a 20 something year old person) would mean that I would expect a young child to react in a similar way. I would not.
I am not saying that you are crass and uneducated, I am saying your question is.

Saying that her reaction is abnormal is indeed, not okay. I apologise if I was harsh and if you didn't know these things about trauma responses. I agree with pretty much everything else in your comment, but you have to admit, that's a really low blow. Surely you can see the problem with criticising the reaction of a victim of abuse recalling some of the most traumatic moments? There simply isn't a 'normal' reaction of trauma. That's literally the whole point! I am not sure how long you have been following this thread, I don't take much notice of usernames, but it has been previously discussed, that to all intents and purposes she is a young child. By her age I had worked abroad, received a university education and had experienced good and bad romantic relationships, I assume just like many on this thread. School, going to shops, 'normal' family holidays, extra curricular activities, hanging out with mates, and not wearing matching clothes with my entire family. This is not what Cleo has experienced. I think you have to remember, she is essentially a child. So she won't have a cat in hells chance of having what we think to be 'normal' reactions to anything. She's been a stand in mother to her siblings, a stand in therapist for HER mother and seemingly wasn't allowed to live a typical teenage life. So yeah, I think I can make that assumption

If his family had restraining orders out against him, and he was known to have kidnapped a child. Why did he take her to his family and leave her with them? That does not make sense? They were bound to help her out. So why would he do that if he is a vile abuser? It does not make sense to me?

Are court case hearing records public in Australia? I do not mean information on the gory details, but at least a record of who was being heard in what court on what day?
I think this comes down to him thinking he had done a good job with brainwashing her. Remember, by this point Cleo was pretending to dislike her family and love him. From his point of view, maybe he thought he had done his magic and had her under his control. Tbh, it's fairly clever to pretend you have stockholm syndrome.

There simply isn't a 'normal' reaction of trauma.
I feel it goes without saying Cleo needs to be in therapy. She needs proper licensed help, because I think we can definitely agree that her family will not look after her in the way she should be. Just as any person who has been in an abusive situation needs. Her more than most of course, due to the first 20 years of her life in that insane family.
 
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I am not saying that you are crass and uneducated, I am saying your question is.

Saying that her reaction is abnormal is indeed, not okay. I apologise if I was harsh and if you didn't know these things about trauma responses. I agree with pretty much everything else in your comment, but you have to admit, that's a really low blow. Surely you can see the problem with criticising the reaction of a victim of abuse recalling some of the most traumatic moments? There simply isn't a 'normal' reaction of trauma. That's literally the whole point! I am not sure how long you have been following this thread, I don't take much notice of usernames, but it has been previously discussed, that to all intents and purposes she is a young child. By her age I had worked abroad, received a university education and had experienced good and bad romantic relationships, I assume just like many on this thread. School, going to shops, 'normal' family holidays, extra curricular activities, hanging out with mates, and not wearing matching clothes with my entire family. This is not what Cleo has experienced. I think you have to remember, she is essentially a child. So she won't have a cat in hells chance of having what we think to be 'normal' reactions to anything. She's been a stand in mother to her siblings, a stand in therapist for HER mother and seemingly wasn't allowed to live a typical teenage life. So yeah, I think I can make that assumption



I think this comes down to him thinking he had done a good job with brainwashing her. Remember, by this point Cleo was pretending to dislike her family and love him. From his point of view, maybe he thought he had done his magic and had her under his control. Tbh, it's fairly clever to pretend you have stockholm syndrome.
Sighs. Here's your issue then. You have taken my comment about her demeanour/ manner in the vlog as not being normal, as a criticism of her, and whilst I have already indicated that using the term normal was probably a poor choice of a word, it was in no way, shape or form intended as a criticism of her (so please once again stop making assumptions). As I said, I skipped through the vlog, so I asked if she had kept smiling the whole time. Her demeanour when speaking about the trauma seemed really strange, so I absolutely think that she needs help to deal with it. I do realise that she is young for her age, but even allowing for that, her demeanour seemed odd - and by that I mean a very concerning she needs help type of odd, not at all a criticism type odd.
 
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Sighs. Here's your issue then. You have taken my comment about her demeanour/ manner in the vlog as not being normal, as a criticism of her, and whilst I have already indicated that using the term normal was probably a poor choice of a word, it was in no way, shape or form intended as a criticism of her (so please once again stop making assumptions). As I said, I skipped through the vlog, so I asked if she had kept smiling the whole time. Her demeanour when speaking about the trauma seemed really strange, so I absolutely think that she needs help to deal with it. I do realise that she is young for her age, but even allowing for that, her demeanour seemed odd - and by that I mean a very concerning she needs help type of odd, not at all a criticism type odd.
It is very easy to make assumptions about someones meaning through text, as I'm sure you are aware.

Yet, you're still calling her demeanour odd..... as stated before, there is no normal way to react to trauma.

I've done that classic thing of re-reading your comment and realising it wasnt aggressive, like I read it. I think Im too used to seeing nastiness. I think I can safely say that we all want to see Cleo succeed and do well, and its horrendous to see the mess thats been created. (by her mother) I understand where you are coming from. She needs some serious help
 
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Cleo and Taina would be the definition of stupid to put that baby on the internet. That man is dangerous, he is wanted by police and seemingly has the funds and connections to continue to mess with their lives.
You’ve done exactly what Taina wanted her subscribers to do…take EVERYTHING Cleo said about this man as the truth. There’s always 2 sides to a story and then there’s the truth.

Taina told her very small children Cleo was dead!! That’s crazy!! There’s a lot more to this story that Cleo sitting in a hotel room for days alone watching CSI Miami.
 
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I used the better half of my day reading the 43 pages of comments here and I was like hold on a second… why are we assuming The nighttime activities which resulted on having the bun in the oven was unconsensual?
She mentioned mental and psychical abuse (but the latter could be a wide range of other things not necessarily in that matter). I mean we saw the multiple photos on the collage where she’s intimately lying on top of him on the bed without cloths on and the video as well… believe me I’ve been there done all of that: I’ve been s3xually assaulted by a stranger I’ve never met before, while the he was threatening to kill me if I oppose than asking me to marry him right after he was done, realizing he’s missing a few screws and having that firm grip on my neck, I had no other choice than pretend to go along with it until I gained his trust and managed to run away to safety… different occasion I’ve been the victim of domestic violence as well, both mental and physical. Sorry for the detour but I feel the background information was somehow necessary, so you don’t think I take this things lightly!!!
Anyhow back to the video of her yet again intimately lying on top of him naked and she kissing him and giggle the way she does… that’s genuine, mark my words NO victim can first of all pretend that giggle… you can put in a fake smile, or even a big grin… but there is no way the giggle it’s fake. Second of all those kisses … if you suppose to kiss someone who s3xually abuses you, than i must be doing something wrong, because that’s how I kiss my boyfriend I love. 🤔
I don’t say she wasn’t harmed, because I don’t know the story, but when it comes to the baby making process just doesn’t make it to the list, because there are some things you just can’t pretend so good!
I also find it a little bit odd that the alleged racism upsets her more than being isolated and abused as she said she was…
But here’s another theory: what if the whole marriage was with the purpose of getting her pregnant than she running away in the first place…She goes back to Australia as an Australian citizen, and gives birth to a baby in Australian soil… no government will release that Australian baby or favor the father with custody. Shared custody it’s out of question, right? So there’s a way blackmailing the supposedly “rich” babydaddy/husband to finance that property or whatever they allegedly blackmailed him for. I mean most people in order to just be able see the kid would do anything I assume and what better leverage you could have to blackmail than a baby, right?
But he turned out to be a broke ass con artist and abusive so they had to change the game plan. Or not… Just a penny for the thoughts, so please don’t crucify me 😅
The only thing we will know it’s the lies they dripping for us.
 
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